Young, docile, ambitious, uneducated, financially dependent, inexperienced, and insecure men (who are also in need of father figures) are the politically-safest kind of men for pastor-kings to promote in their kingdoms. (Why do you think so many corporations prefer in-house training?)
The fattest carrot of all that pastor-kings offer to young men (or women) who feel a call to the ministry is ministry opportunity itself e.g., teaching a church class; sitting on the platform; preaching on Sunday night; traveling with the senior pastor; preaching in a sister church, team-teaching with one of the elders, etc.
In the kingdom of the pastor-king, it is communicated in various ways that those who kiss the ring of the pastor-king obtain the big carrot – ministry opportunities; those who do not miss out on the same opportunities as well as promotions. (I declined becoming an elder in my home church more than once and it was clearly not appreciated.)
Jesus said, "I am the door…" (application only) but in the kingdom of the pastor-king, it is the senior pastor who is the door to all ministry opportunities (of course, as "ministry" is narrowly defined and expressed in the confines of that pastor-king's kingdom).
As one of my former pastors told me when I pressed him as to why he was hinting to me that I should quit my teaching position in his Bible College that I had successfully held for about nine years and go to another church:
"If you will become more like us; I will open up more ministry doors for you; if you won't become more like us, then I won't open up anymore ministry doors for you."
Young men expend too much time and energy – even compromising their personal convictions and swallowing their sincere questions and doubts – getting on the good side of their pastor-kings so that he will give them opportunities to “minister.”
All these ambitious men really have to do, if they would just take a lesson from Jesus with the masses or John Wesley with the coal miners as they lined up to go work, etc. is open their front door and go preach to their neighbor or on the sidewalk or someplace there are needy people.
Instead, the Yes Men of the pastor-king's court seek the honor and approval of men. They choose comfortable pulpits (with flowing water falls or rotating globes in the background), honorariums and choirs who will applaud their shallow, topical messages even though they lack originality and are filled with hackneyed clichés of the politically-correct traditions of their pastor-kings.
One Sunday evening, I preached a controversial message in my home church; one to which I no longer hold. It was a sermon that supported Postmillennialism (the belief that all of the nations will gradually become Christianized before Jesus returns). Before the message, I playfully told the congregation that the pastor should feel free to correct me after I finished!
My comment was not appreciated. After I ended my message, instead of the pastor getting up to the pulpit and saying something like, “It sure is great that Christians don’t have to all believe the same thing on the End Times,” he tapped the elder who was sitting in front of him on the platform and asked him to dismiss the service; which he did very clumsily.
The next morning, the pastor called me into his office. He told me that he was the only one in the church who defined doctrine and it was not going to be me!
I asked him, "Why can Ern Baxter (now deceased) come into our church as a guest speaker and preach Postmillennialism from the pulpit and get away with it but I can't?" He said, "It's because Ern Baxter is not a member of this church; neither is he on staff here. What he says will be heard today and gone tomorrow. Anything Ern says that I choose not to re-emphasize, I just allow to fall through the cracks. In your case, however, since you are on church staff, it is an entirely different story.”
Hey…I always thought Ern was A-mil.
In fact, hearing him speak on the Millennium in service one time in the 70s was what got me thinking about the whole A-mil thing to begin with. I studied it all out, all the various positions, and even made this sweet color-coded chart on A-mil, which position I ended up adopting. KJC thought it was so cool he even asked me for a copy for his records.
Ha! Too bad I was wrong!
-joe
I can’t remember whether Ern was pre- or a-millennialist before he changed his views, but I do remember that when he became a postmillennialist, he told me that he “brought his entire congregation with him!” …Oh, the power of the pulpit!
He spoke to myself and another church staffer at the time in private and said “Buy the truth and sell it not” when it came to some of the other tenets of the Christian Reconstruction Movement, too.
He said that gentlemen like R. J. Rushdoony (now deceased), author of The Institutes of Biblical Law, were “very intelligent men.” I am now reading Rushdoony’s book, Tithing & Dominion, and, in my view, he is not very smart at all in that regard. Some of the things he says, in my opinion, are downright the product of pure emotionalism and non-reflective cliche-repeating, e.g., over-generalized phrases like: We must submit all of life and thought to the Law of God.
About one year before he died, Ern told me that if he had the chance to do the ministry all over again, that he would have found himself a source of outside income so that he would not have been so financially dependent upon the local churches and Bible conferences at which he so frequently spoke.
From the “scars” in my own flesh, I now think I know exactly what he meant by that, and I’d guess that many who read this blog do, too.
If I was a congregation member of that church, I would be offended by the thought that the pastor does not think of me as an intelligent adult that can weight the ideas and study the scriptures on my own.
This is very true. When I walked into CBC years ago as a new believer, I got baptised and was first discipled there. Later, I felt a calling into ministry. Without a doubt I’ll say that it was real. I decided to go through the Timothy program and PBC. I wanted to grow as a Christian because I never had a Christian background. At first, everyone was all over me because my image would look good – a new believer saved through a miracle, lived a tough life but experienced God.
PBC was a joke. I was the ‘bad’ girl because I asked sincere questions about truths. I wasn’t the mousy, ‘submissive’ type (according to them). I was respectful of course but wasn’t gullible enough to blindly follow. Also, since I had no Christian background or connections with leadership, I was treated as the outsider. There is a cliched type of CBC talk. I notice that a person’s spirituality is judged by that. Before I went to PBC, I was incarcerated so as you can imagine, I didn’t fit into the image of a CBC princess. Also, some people would talk down to me as if I was fricking 5 yrs old because I didnt know CBC spiritual lingo.
I noticed that there is a box and you are not allowed to think outside. And you may not dare to even question. Otherwise you have a problem. I think CBC is becoming less and less of a church and more of an organization with hierarchies.
Like I mentioned, in the beginning, everyone was over me because they thought I had potential but since I didnt fit the image or the one that blindly submits, I was passed over and tossed aside.
If anyone wants to know anything more about my PBC experience, I can give details. I wasted my time there.
Nina, Thanks for sharing! I’m so sorry that you were treated unkindly and unfairly at PBC. I understand what you mean by a culture of cliches and leadership connections. I’m sure that there are many, including myself, who would be interested in hearing more of your story. Would you like to just share from your heart or would you like to be asked certain questions? …If you prefer being asked questions, I’m going out of town for ten days tomorrow, but will be back to the blog after that.
Questions, because I don’t know where to start. Go ahead and I’ll tell you how it was. If it wasnt for LT, JW and Hubbard, i would have lost my sanity.
For starters, PBC is NOT a bible college. It is more like an internship for CBC style churches. Outside that bubble, it’s useless. If you want a biblical foundation for the rest of your life, you won’t get it regardless of what they say.
1, Calling as an idolatry – I believe that there is a calling but it is so exaggerated and taken out of context. Thats all I remember the youth pastor talking about. It’s as though if u don’t know your calling or purpose in life, there’s something wrong with you. It’s like you have to be this perfect person, that happens to always be in the right place and be touched and then out to change the world… C’mon at 15-23, not everyone is going to know their calling in life. I’m now 25 and still don’t know the specifics. At that age, we’re still young. The thing is if you don’t make it – u are really passed over. The way i was treated, i felt something was wrong with me. Only now, I realize there isnt.
2, CBC religious structure – It is really becoming like a traditional denominational structure. I hate it when church trends are preached as though truth. For instance, in Glenda’s social roles and relationships, Joshua Harris’ “Boy meets girl” was the new scriptural canon. That was the only way you could date (or court). period.
Secular music/literature/drinking – I was looked down as a lesser Christian because I was reading secular novels. It’s as though I was looking at porn. I was reading Salman Rushdie, Shakespeare. As for music, I don’t mean the vulgar, demeaning type like Emeniem. (I hated him as a non-Christian). I can understand that. Here my low standards were listening to Pink Martini, Beatles, Josh Groban. And when visiting my family, we went out and I had a glass of wine (big deal). Occasionally i have a glass or wine or a drink. I’m not an alcoholic.
I was told that I shouldnt read outside novels or ideas because their spiritually wrong and will corrupt me, not even for educational purposes.
I asked someone “whats wrong with secular music if the lyrics are clean?”
She said, you’ll never know about the singer. The singer may not be a Christian (hmmm…and your point?)…She may be having others spirits…(and she goes into a spheel of spiritual warfare) and if you are listening to ungodly music, it will affect you. What if you are in chapel and you shout out something….
That made absolutely no sense to me. And I have yet to experience that.
I didnt learn a lot. I left because i got tired of the drama, stupidity and others.
lol! loving Nina’s comments.
Nina, please go on. You are painting a beautifully accurate picture of CBC life…but I don’t believe it is complete yet.
Nina, if you don’t mind answering–what year did you participate in the Timothy Program? We are the same age now and I did it when I was 18. If you aren’t comfortable answering that is fine — I am simply curious.
Nina is my pseudonym. If I told u the year it may give my identity away. I was 19 when i participated.
Well guys, i try to be honest and realistic as possible. Even though i feel disappointed and hurt, I’m trying my best not to be bitter or let it affect my personal spiritual life. I don’t want to constantly view spirituality through the lens of ‘wronged-by-CBC’ ….
I will say that even though PBC sucked, I did experience spiritual growth because the Holy Spirit convicted me. After visiting a few Christian colleges, I will have to say that I have never seen a chapel that is excited, energetic and passionate to worship God.
This is my perception… I disagree with a lot of things about PBC. However, only through that experience i first-handedly learned what spirituality isn’t and what it shouldnt be.
It’s like my parents. I learned what a marriage and family SHOULD NOT be like from the hell I suffered as a child/teen. My worst nightmare is myself becoming like my parents. I could choose to be bitter, refuse to forgive and be a total man-hater because my dad was a jerk. Or I could look at my dad & figure out what male characteristics i should stay away from. I thought through marriage, relationships, read the Bible and figure out what the successfully married and reasonably stable families are doing that my family isnt. With forgiveness, coming to know the Lord and growth, I know with faith that I wont repeat the same mistakes as my parents. I wished my childhood/teen years were different becuz i feel that i missed out on being a kid. There’s still some hurts but i’m trusting God will cover and heal.
Similarly, since i went through the PBC experience, i learned what not to do. The down side is that now I’m a bit confused. The sheltering does not help you. I’m going through a phase of reevaluating and resdiscovering what being a Christian is about. I’m taking things slowly.
I’ll say that I have a lot of things I could say about PBC. Anything in particular that anyone is interesting in hearing?
How about this— courtship culture & social roles….lot to say about that
Nina,
You aren’t the only one to try to discover what being a Christian is ‘all about’!
I like Luke 6:46-48. “And why do you call Me,’Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? “Everyone who comes to Me, and hears My words, and acts upon them, I will show you whom he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation upon the rock; and when a flood arose, the river burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.”
Matthew 5:18-44 gives us a list of 9 things where Jesus tells us, “I say to you”. So I’m working on keeping those things in my heart and acting on them in day to day life. When I get together with someone who thinks along the same lines, I call that ‘church’. I think this goes well with the Lord’s prayer, “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as in heaven.” No buildings to go to, no tithes to pay, only One Leader. (Matt.23:10 NASB)
Peace
Nina,
One more verse came to me while I was writing…Psalm 27:10. For you.
Those are good verses.
Reading your remarks, Nina, you express feelings similar to my own … so I found myself wondering why it is that I was hurt / angry / bitter towards the church I tried to plug into, when being separating from it brought me to a closer relationship with Jesus and knowing real freedom (John 8:32-36).
Jesus said “I am the vine and you are the branches, apart from me you can do nothing” – elsewhere, Paul talks about how our branches are ‘grafted’ into the Lord’s olive tree (Romans 11:17-24).
So it seems like “the Vine” (who is Jesus), is looking out for us … is even jealous for us … for when along came another vine / organism that attempted to graft into us and thereby usurp our connection to the one true vine, Jesus came in and did some pruning to sever that false connection.
Could it be that the hurt / anger / bitterness we feel at the severed connection, means that we had already begun to put more trust in the false connection, than the true connection we have with Jesus? Why should we lament being separated from a parisitic organism if we are still connected with the Vine, Jesus?
Hmmm … last year, I planted the zucchini too close to the summer squash and the vines inter-mingled and cross-polinated … the connection came at the expense of the good fruit to produce something that was neither attractive or edible. As gardener, had I known where to cut and separate the vines, how many more zucchini and squash might I have harvested instead of a bushel of some usless, cross-bred hybrid.
Suddenly, I’m filled with gratitude that the Lord has pruned my branches and kept me from entanglement with another vine.
Sam
What is so sad about reading this post and the comments is that it is all too common. I wish we could say that things like these are the exception rather than the rule, but it’s just not true. It seems most people have a tale to tell of similar things.
I am thankful that God is able to use even all the abusive church stuff in our lives so that not one drop of our tears is wasted. Even so, it makes me sad to read what folks have been through. I could tell a similar tale, but thankfully it’s over a decade ago now and I’m finally healed and on my joyful way once again. It was, however, a very long decade of healing!
Grace to all,
Tracy
I wish I could be healed. I’m careful about how I say things. While browsing through the blog, I feel some points are valid and said with the right attitude. At the same time, some posts do seem like pointless, bitterness and wrong attitudes. Remember the point of discussion is to encourage a person to genuinely follow Jesus Christ, and should be building and give some sort of hope.
As for myself, at the moment I’m angry, pissed off, annoyed, confused and feel as though i’ve been manipulated all along. Now, I’m confused and don’t know whats truth anymore. It’ll take time.
For now, I’m not going to church anymore but looking for a church. I’m praying and want to go with the right attitudes otherwise i’ll be hurt and tied down. I would hate bitterness to ruin my spiritual walk with Christ. I’m trying not to focus on ‘task-oriented’ or ambitious Christianity. It’s a spiritual journey and out of relationship. I’m now focusing on growing as a believer.
As for others, I’m curious – do some of you still attend CBC? I occasionally go to a small group. The people are nice not as snotty, self-righteous as the leadership. I’ve seen average people witht good intentions turn around when they are offered a ministry position at that church. They gradually become snotty, self-righteous, arrogant and act as though they earned a way up to God and special. I’ve lost some of my friends who no longer talk to me because they have better things to do.
And secondly, have you found another church to serve and give out too?
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Nina, thank you for sharing your thoughts on PBC. I’m struggling with some of the same issues as you (anger, disenfranshisement because of not fitting into a box, etc.) and I don’t get it because I also have had a miraculous transformation of the love of God in my life that other’s have seen, but they seem to want to continue in their “task-oriented” and do-hard-things message. Nothing wrong with pushing for excellence unless you’re putting others’ down in the process.
I’ve only attended CBC a couple of times, and it was around 1993-’94.
My connections are with the Jharris courtship and reconstructionist teachers (I’m trying to be careful here, as I’m not done dealing with this locally). Since many of these leaders have connections to PBC, I’m wondering why these leaders all seem to have a variation on the same theme: cultish, extra-biblical teaching mixed in with guilt and exclusiveness. The leadership gets to define “biblical”.
Oh, and I think your tastes in music are great!
I love Pink Martini and Josh Groban has a fine voice.
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Samaritan, those verses and your thoughts were really insightful and encouraging, thanks.
It seems to be another church trend, before J Harris, it was hardcore Holiness movement messages. All I remember hearing Doug preach was soley about finding your ‘calling’ and ‘destiny’. If I hear another hyped-up message about calling, I’m going to pull my hair out. My point is why do we need one movement after another? Each movement focuses solely on one part while ignoring the rest of scripture.
Basically, I’m extremely tired and frustrated with church trends and desire the balanced truth that will never change – the true teachings of Jesus Christ. Where I am right now in my spiritual journey is not a good place. I’m extremely angry, moody, irritated and almost gave up on church. I’m praying and trusting that God will direct me and make things clear to me.
I am 46 years old, spent 15 years at CBC, married during PBC, bought into the whole “destiny” “ministry” calling thing. God never produced anything significant from my life (according to the leadership at PBC) so I wasnt’ ‘gifted’ and ‘anointed’. I ran into an old BT friend at a restuarant yesterday, all he could say after it had been several years since seeing him and his family was, “I have a man of God in the back room who has been rocked by the holy spirit – it is just awesome” He didn’t have one question as to how I was doing or how my family was. It was all about the ‘men of God’ he was rubbing shoulders with. I guess he still thought that would impress me. I said “good for you!” and walked away disgusted…. I feel so sad that people are still into who they know and what kind of ministry connections they have.
Nina, I’m back from vacation and want to thank you for sharing with us on this blog some of your life story and pain; I can personally relate to much of what you are saying; so you are not alone!
You asked if there was anything we’d like to hear about your PBC experience; yes there is; here are a few things I’m personally interested in:
(1) did you ever become close to any of the faculty – feeling you could share your inner frustrations with any of them? if so, who and why?
(2) how did the classroom teaching make you feel? truly educated? indoctrinated? which classes or teachers did you like more than others and why?
(3) what was the relationship between PBC and CBC at the time? Did you ever get the feeling that the latter was using the latter as a free labor pool?
(4) When you questioned things in or outside of the classroom, what happened?
(5) were you ever able to form close friendships with some of the other students? if so, who and why were you able to get close? were you able to share with your close friends any of your inner doubts or disappointments? if so. how did that make you feel?
(6) what made you attend PBC in the first place? How were your original expectations met or not met?
(7) How did you leave? i.e.,before you left for good, did you ever go to a pastor or someone in leadership about your questions or struggles?
P.S. Do you like to read? If so, what subjects would you be interested in receiving a short bibliography concerning – in terms of your struggles with your faith – that I might be able to share with you on this blog? If interested, I have posted a list or two of books that I recommend on healing from spiritual abuse on this blog that you might be able to find by looking up some of the articles I’ve posted; see: Blog Stats at the top of this page.
Hope u had a good vacation, David. Wow, this would be long but here we go.
1, Close but distant-close. I’ll admit I was first a bit naive and too trusting. I opened up too early to Mary Henderson and Glenda Malmin and wish I hadnt. I dont doubt their intentions but they are just too sheltered in the church world that they don’t know how to relate, or have empathy or understanding towards those who never grew up in the Christian sub-culture. I expressed frustration but they were judgmental towards me. According to them, i should have no business being frustrated. I stopped trusting faculty. I did open up to Lanny Hubbard for doctrinal things – he seems sensible and not judgmental. Jan Weinstein was understanding and I had many intellectual debates with him. He challenged to think outside the box and didnt judge me for being an intellectual female. It seems that many have an issue with intellectual women who don’t fit the mold of a ditzy CBC princess. He was accepting of me and encouraged me to follow my desires and ambitions.
2, Depends on the class – JW’s classes and LT’s Philosophy, and Lanny Hubbards were the only real educational classes that were educating me. I learned a lot from these guys. From LH, I learned how to study and seek the Bible on my own. Everything else is indoctrinating nonsense. I hated Glenda Malmin’s Social Roles with a passion. Cultural attitudes were preached as the truth, legalistic and not open to ideas.
3, not sure about this. I feel PBC was not a bible college but rather an internship for those who want to be in leadership of MFI style churches. Ken Malmin said that PBC’s purpose was also to give the foundational aspects for leaders in the secular world. I say that’s BS. PBC’s sheltering, distortation and lack of preparation does not help anyone in the ‘real world’.
4, Either my peers or teachers, would look down on me as a lesser Christian, was gossiped about, supposedly had lack of faith, leadership abilities were questions, laughed at, judged and looked at as a ‘bad’ girl for not blindly submitting. Only those who i mentioned earlier were not like that.
5, I had a few but distant friends. Most of my peers are VERY sheltered in the church bubble and have no idea how to relate to newer Christians and especially those with a background like mine. The same people brag about their calling to the inner city and reaching out to the lost etc… Like good ol’ charismatics, its all about talk. I stuck to a small group. There was another person i opened up the most to. I didnt trust others. I couldnt relate to the Christian culture bubble. For crying out loud, i speak English not Christianese. And people make judgments and decide who to be friends with and who is worthy to talk to based on outward spiritual lingo, cuteness & clothes you wear.
6, I was radically saved through a miracle. I experienced a calling of God in a youth camp. At first, my pastors encouraged me becuz i had potential. When I went to PBC, since i didnt fit their mold, I’m tossed aside. I wanted to grow as a Christian, get the foundation of faith built in. I didnt plan to stay in PBC too long. I wanted to do 2 yrs and transfer. I had a desire for the mission field.
7, I wish I had left after my first semester. I started getting irritated and confused. I was still a new christian. I got sick of drama, hypocrisy and nonsense. I decided to stay because i thought it might be the enemy trying to discourage me from my calling. I tried to look beyond the hypocrisy and unbelievable immaturity of some people. During my 2nd year, I started questioning the existence of God. Things started getting religious. I stayed and finished 2 years and left. I did go to my pastor and she wasnt very helpful. She tried to mold me to her expectations. All this time, I trusted her thinking if I try something new and allow her to speak into my life, I’d grow, my life would change because she would show me how to conform to the image of God. Instead I was being molded into the image of culture.
Now, I’m not speaking to my pastors anymore. We’re not in good terms because there was a family issue. They werent honest with us. They manipulated lied and in some ways i blame them for causing divisions in my family. they had good intentions but they are so sheltered in their pentecostal-charismatic religion that they cant think outside. I’m sure their intentions maybe good. It’s the religious structure.
Really, PBC was a waste of time.
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Nina, Thanks for sharing with us about your time at PBC; and for responding so personally to my questions. I’m really sorry that PBC was not a positive experience for you. As I read your hurtful and disappointed experiences, it seems that you have seen first hand some of the sicknesses of the modern day mega-church and the pastor-king led IC when they attempt to have a Bible or ministry training institute.
One of your insights that stood out to me was your comment of how sheltered everyone was and is at PBC. You applied this to both students as well as to faculty. Isn’t it something that as leaders try to help God’s people to stay pure, they over-shelter/over-protect/and over-control them and in doing so, cripple the very ones whom they are trying to help mature in Christ?!
I think that it is telling that most of the faculty that you said gave you a valid educational experience at PBC are no longer there. To me, this fact reveals that schools like PBC are not all about Christian education but are all about church indoctrination for their particular brand of Christianity.
The faculty member who is still there, I believe, would not be there, if it weren’t for the students he so loves to teach. I don’t see him sticking around forever.
As far as your pastor is concerned – lying to your family, etc. – is there any way that you can bring others into the situation and confront him for his deceptions? I hope that there is.
I enjoyed reading your comments very much. Thanks again for sharing your valuable insights with us.
Actually, no. I don’t have the intention to bring a revolt against her or anything. Like I said, some have good hearts and intentions but didnt know how to approach it. I’m going to deal with it personally. This is a personal thing. If I can’t. I’m going to live and let live.
I’ll say that even though I’ve been hurt in PBC but this should not excuse pride, bitterness and other negativity. I cannot say a lot because there are somethings I’m sorting through. I’m taking a break and focusing on other things. In fact, I’m looking for another place of fellowship where i can serve out to. I’m thinking maybe I should talk less and do more.
I believe that some of the points shared in this blog are valid and some of you have the right attitudes. However, i am a bit concerned about others, approaching this with the wrong attitudes. As for me, I’m trying not to harbor wrong attitudes for long because it’ll end up hurting myself in the end.