“I’ve gone to a new level in worship.”
Posted on April 28th, 2008 by catalyst into the City Boobie Church categoryOne of the highlights of my day is reading quotes from kids who attended Generation Unleashed.
"I've gone to a new level in worship," said Annalise Neciuk, 17, from Vancouver, Wash. "You can't help but be impacted when you're in a room with thousands of other people who are so hungry for the presence of God. That atmosphere alone builds your faith and encourages you to believe for something greater."
I felt the same way last month watching Belmont almost upset Duke in the First Round of the NCAA Tournament. It was amazing, thousands of other people craving a Duke loss. All of us believing that nothing would be greater then mocking the Dukies as they left the stadium. I seriously went to a new level in hating Duke.
But honestly, what is she talking about? What does it mean to go to a "new level" in worship? I know it sounds cool and spiritual to talk about "new levels", but I am not sure it actually means anything.
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April 28th, 2008 at 7:22 am
It’s called emotionalism — commonly mistaken for “spirituality” among sheep.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I think its cool if people want to go to their favorite concert and rock out.
I would say in the meantime to not always affiliate such amazing, exciting, wonderful emotional goodness with the holy spirit.
In my life, sometimes the holy spirit can be very painful and harsh (always for my greater good) as well as happy and joyful.
It really took me — an amped up christian for a loop when my parade got rained on by something negative.
It’s even worse when you come to find out that your new “negative” is NOT acceptable and you will be rejected in a subtle, silent manner because of it (my case at CBC).
The overwhelming vibe at the conferences is cool but its important not to always believe that Christ’s Spirit living within us is always going to be one of overwhelming goodness like some churches seem to think.
I understand that the passion is a great outlet for such a dark world but balance or at least talking about things such as these could really help people prepare for the STORMS that seem to attack us as Christians during our lives.
But you just ignore the storm hoping it will go away. Why?
Romans 11:22-23 talks about how God can be severe toward the disobedient and good to the obedient
BUT IT IS GOD DOING THIS WORK. God is severe in order to get us back on the right track. In verse 23 IMMEDIATELY it states how God is able and willing to graft is back into his arms (branch).
It never states that HUMANS should be doing this work or that they should be giving you the evil eye or gossipy whisper because you are the church sinner.
I know that you have skeletons in your closet at one time too! How would you feel if my group of homies treated you in the same way once your veil of perfection was uncovered?
I know I love God more than anything else. Romans 8:28 tells me that ALL THINGS — good and evil — work together for good for those who love God.
So where did your hate and rejection come from? “Holy” jerks who put on fronts?
Becoming a follower of Christ meant that I have to be completely HONEST not seemingly PERFECT.
Thats why I have a problem with a PERFECT worship service. It just doesn’t testify to ANYTHING else in life or in the bible.
my opinion.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I just want to say that if you have gained Christ, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE go out and find the people who are not looking to be found. Not through force, intimidation, and lies but through love.
People who seem like they don’t care are SCREAMING for someone to care for them. They have just become so numb and jaded that you gotta climb over their great wall of china before you figure this out.
Buy them food, give them rides, do favors for them, buy them gifts, make them wonder WHAT THE HECK IS THIS PERSON DOING.
eventually I promise they will either ask or stumble upon the fact that you love Jesus. Don’t force it on people!!!! It won’t ever work that way.
I have seen so many people find the Lord this way. It’s all about patience and having faith that God will make a way for everyone around us to know Him simply through our everyday routines (which are inspired by His spirit).
It has nothing to do with dragging someone to a drag on sunday.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
So getting together in large groups in a ’special’ building and singing together is now the path to the Father in heaven?
Why don’t I see that in the New Testament anywhere? Oh, I know, if you spend all your time doing that, you can’t be bothered to actually do what Christ tells you to do. (See Matthew 5:18-44, where the “I say” verses are listed by Jesus. Or how about Matthew 28:18-20, where He tells the disciples what to teach….or even Luke 11:2-4 on how to pray.)
April 28th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
I feel ya HEsaid
if anything the path to the father in heaven is a life like mother T lived. Lets all change churches to be like her.
The economy is hurting and that means so are the POOREST.
So lets sell the music gear, get like half a million or more dollars, feed a crap load of people and then kick it with them in heaven where the music is free.
What do you say CBC? I will help ya do it.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
At my last exam, the doctor told me to eat more fibre, which has transported me to a new level of …
April 28th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
I guess I’m way behind the curve, I wasn’t even aware that there was such a hierarchy of “levels” in spirituality..
*raises hand* Ooh! Ooh!! I know! Pick me!
April 28th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
I don’t think she was talking about reaching new spiritual levels persay, like something you have to earn. That’s not it at all. There is a difference between walking into worship and simply singing the words, or pressing into worship and having a complete reality of what your singing and experiencing true worship. That is what i feel Annalise was talking about. I’m tired of the Body of Christ tearing each other apart… is this really helping? And especially now let’s attack the youth… I just don’t get it.
April 28th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
I know it sounds cool and spiritual to talk about “new levels”, but I am not sure it actually means anything.
All I know is the whole experience was amazing.
April 28th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Yeah.. I wondered a while ago what this “level” business was as well. But then I just related it to final fantasy. A new level of worship must mean your weapons have gotten stronger and you can fight harder dudes. So I guess it means that your worship has more of an impact on God and that you can fight harder demons that come your way.
April 29th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Perhaps. But that’s not what Annalise was talking about. She was talking about going to a concert and having a good time. I’ve done that before, and it had nothing to do with Christ or New Levels or Pressing into worship, and it had everything to do with listening to a good live band.
And you know what, someone needs to tell Annalise this, before she starts confusing emotional excitement with real genuine worship. What she’s experiencing isn’t real. It’s just a shallow emotional high, you can get at any large concert or sporting event in America.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:33 am
Scripture defines “true worship” above. IF that scripture is TRUE and represents what God wants from us in real, spiritual worship, is there any question about the counterfeit type of worship promoted at GU?
When Jesus went to the cross, was it worship? When Stephen faced stoning and repeated the words of Jesus “Father forgive them …”, was it worship?
Have we become so brainwashed that we think “Christian Idol” is worship?
I don’t mean to discount group singing as an expression of love for God, especially since I’m a musician, but, it is patently wrong to make group singing out to be the defacto standard of worship. More often than not, I’m afraid, group singing is a case of “you flatter me with your lips (for 20 minutes on Sunday morning) but your heart is far from me (the rest of the week).”
The common institutional church approach to group singing as worship, serves to encourage separation of our ‘church worship life’ from our business / personal life. The church building is seen as the “place we worship” … what about worship in the workplace? Or at school? In the home? The Sunday morning singing experience represents just 1/10th of one percent of a person’s week … that’s just one 10th of one 10th of a tithe … talk about ROBBING GOD!
Sam
April 29th, 2008 at 8:49 am
I can’t tell you how many camps, conferences, events, services, and gatherings I spent my teenage years at - worshiping, dancing, singing, laughing, getting all rialed up to change the city. In the end however there was never a lasting affect that really helped me in my walk with Christ. My growth as a Christian came from my quiet reflection, study of God’s word, and intimate fellowship with other believers where we discussed our faith and were transparent in our struggles. And more then anything my greatest growth came out of my greatest sorrows. The good times and rah rah moments help make being a young Christian fun and exciting, but as Cat said, you can get that from a good concert. The lasting fruit comes from individual moments with God. If a teenager wants that, tell them to go into their room on a Saturday night, shut the door, turn on a worship CD and just praising Him with nobody watching. Then you will tell how much you desire God.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:47 am
what was james trying to say? to me it was a bunch of words totally unconnected from one to the next.
James.. are you in a level of something and experiencing a new found joy?
April 29th, 2008 at 10:58 am
haha thats how I write — and I just bought mario kart wii so that probably has something to do with it.
April 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I like the Final Fantasy analogy… when do I get to be an “adept?”
Actually, the whole “levels” concept reeks of gnosticism.
(Nothing personal, Annalise. You’re just repeating the jargon.)
April 29th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
And my mom is always the only one who acknowledges my amazingly clever comments on this blog.
:p
May 1st, 2008 at 6:30 am
I believe in the idea of a forum to help people process what they are thinking and see what other people think. That is why I generally support this Blog. I often come to it for a laugh or another perspective. I am so sad that this time we decided to pick and mock a 17 year-old girl.
Young lady if you are reading this please know that I apologize for the disappointing words of my brothers and sisters. Sometimes in an effort to point out what we think is wrong with the world and the Church we forget we are talking about real people. You might find some insight based on the experience of what other people wrote. Maybe you will even see a glimpse of your future. But if you know you went to another level with God then I say “You Go Girl!”
I am sorry that we were so disrespectful. It’s exactly what I don’t want to do (treat people as if they were unimportant and that they don’t have the ability to interpret their own experience without some leader confirming it).
I am also sorry if I come off self righteous as I am sure I have said equally disturbing things on this Blog or in other places. I am not as much pointing a finger as saying I think we crossed the line attacking a 17 year old person. I can see how Pastors are fair game as they put them selves in front of people but this girl who I am sure was just asked the innocent question what did you think about the GU conference. Why make her a target of our pain.
May 1st, 2008 at 7:18 am
Meh.
Look, first, I’m not in pain. I’m in quite a good place actually. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. So, please top repeating the mantra that everyone on this blog is suffering. I’m not. I’m very happy.
Second, she’s 17, not 9. She’s practically an adult. So, you know, I think she can handle a little criticism. Let’s stop treating our youth like they are too fragile and break easily. She spoke to a reporter who took down her comments. So, I think she can take some critique.
Third, HER COMMENT WAS RIDICULOUS! And I’m the only person I know calling her on this. If you know someone who took her aside and said, “Darling, I know you think that went to new levels, but really, you just experienced a good concert. That’s not Faith. That’s emotion and there is a difference.” Then, I’ll take this blog down. But until then, I stand by what I said. And beside, it was funny. Come on, comparing a basketball game to Generation Unleashed, that’s at least kinda funny.
May 1st, 2008 at 12:25 pm
justthinking what are you talking about?
I know that just about everyone feels the same way annalise does at CBC with the new levels thing — she just came out to the public and said it.
How else do you think people who disagree with such statements are going to affirm their sanity? By being politically correct or just ignore the problem hoping it will go away?
If you want to be like every other church and ignore, ignore, ignore go ahead. I can tell you that by ignoring these problems there are alot of hurt and INCREDIBLY confused people out there.
So what happens when you decide to go to CBC to experience this “new level” and you are looked at strangly for not raising your hands, closing your eyes, and singing the government approved songs.
YOU ARE GOING TO FEEL LIKE THE BLACK SHEEP FOOL OF CHURCH unless someone addressed the issue and says — no, this isn’t the only side of this type of worship.
I can see how sheltered people wouldn’t like catalyst’s VERY MILD style of telling what he believes to be true.
I would suggest that we all just get over ourselves and absorb as much constructive critisism as possible.
I suck at punctuation, flow of thought, and spelling. See? Not so bad.
But don’t try to make catalyst feel guilt over something that was on his heart (WRONG OR RIGHT — who cares).
If you didn’t realize this already I will help you: every argument ALWAYS has two sides that are FOREVER correct.
So you agree to disagree while taking the others point into consideration.
You probably think my point sucks, and I think yours does too. So who is right here? I can never justify my point enough to change your mind in the same way you cannot justify yours enough to change mine.
So just let it be what it is. If you want a revolution, feed the homeless.
May 1st, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I just want to say. I highly doubt Annalise Neciuk reads this blog.
So everyone, calm the E down.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Speaking of this, has anyone here tried Prayer Soaking?
May 1st, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Is that kind of like “prayer tunnels”? I was always just waiting for someone to break out a “2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - Who do we appreciate?!? JESUS!!!” before a prayer tunnel.. it sure would make it feel more legitimate, like a kids basketball game.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:39 pm
“Prayer soaking” is not like the tunnels. It’s an individual thing, even though it can be done alongside other people.
It’s really simple: someone will put some music on, and then people will sit or lay down or read their Bibles and just relax in God’s presence. Nobody really leads it. If you are in a group, a couple of people might pray with each other for awhile. Personally, I like it. How many times does a person spend time just talking and especially listening to God? And how often does a person get to do this with other people?
Of course, there can be some problems, but there is with everything.
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
Prayer soaking… laying around….. I’d probably fall asleep..
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 am
You are right. I think your point sucks. But I don’t think you suck. Just because we can find fault with a church does not mean that is impossible to feel a connection to God. I would bet that most of us have had moments in life where we feel a connection to God (I hope including you). Why knock a kid for sharing that she felt a connection to God.
BTW she did hear about the people on this blog making fun of her because people didn’t have the class to leave out her name. Even the news doesn’t call out the names of kids under the age of 18.
She hasn’t been hurt by the church yet, like all of us.
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:21 am
Wrong, but if it makes you feel better to think that an innocent kid won’t hear about it if you mention her by name then you can join the “Group Think” that you put so much effort fighting against on this Blog.
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:29 am
Cataylst. I didn’t mean to imply that you are never happy but as the third highest contributor to this blog (878 comments) I find it hard to imagine that you can be as “healthy” as you say you are. I know that I am unhealthy and I am only up to 4 o 5 comments. I can’t imagine how bitter I would have to be to get up past 500.
I am sad that just like the Church you feel like you have to justify how happy you are even though we spend hours pouring over Blogs like this to help us with our pain. Why is that we can’t just come out of the “Happy Closet” and just admit that we are all hurt and broken and thus why we have Citybussinesschurch.org/blog
Didn’t Jesus come for people like you and me????
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:44 am
Amen
Let’s face the problem not become the problem!
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:20 am
Exactly. It’s just a FEELING. It’s simply emotion. Noone here blames her or thinks she an idiot for saying something like that or anything, we just think that she’s been deceived into thinking that feeling that she got - the same feeling that people get at intense basketball games or a concert they’re really into - is significant of something greater. It’s not; it’s just a FEELING. I’m sure that she strongly believes that that feeling was significant, but strength of conviction does not evidence truth of conviction.
Many religions use the “burning in the bosom” gut feeling to justify how they can be SURE that their religion is the truth, but clearly, these religions all contradict each other (and oftentimes, themselves). So in using feelings to justify one’s convictions, all that person is doing is showing how strongly they’ve been convinced (or deceived) by a leader (or manipulator).
Do you think that the mohammedian suicide bombers don’t show the same strength of conviction, if not greater? Does that make them right; does that mean that upon entrance to heaven they’ll get a virtual buffet of virgins to choose from? Should we shelter them from the fact that their belief is completely irrational and dangerous, and more than likely, completely false?
If you want to try and shelter someone from the truth just because she’s “only” 17 years old, then so be it. But don’t expect everyone to share your desire to protect someone from life.
And no, I’m NOT comparing these churches and people to the radical Islamofascists, I was just using them as an (rather extreme) illustration.
May 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
Cat, We have a new bitter-meter: number of posts on City Business. Maybe someone with computer skills can make one of those graphics like a speedometer and we can all find our bitterness level. Have I made it into the red yet?
May 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am
eleytheria, I believe you are exactly right to question emotion-based faith.
Right now, friends of mine are headed to Florida to experience the “Florida Outpouring” I’ve been watching the meetings on GodTV (every day at 7pm EDT).
I have to admit to being baffled. While some people seem to be getting healed, the whole thing seems much more emotionally based than anything. The majority of people in wheelchairs are still sitting there at the end of the meetings.
I have heard NO teaching other than the usual MSOG-esque rhetoric, and “new levels” is a definite buzzword here.
I’m still trying to sort this out with God. I mean, whatever Todd Bentley wants to do is between him and God, but when my friends come back wanting to transfer this “anointing” to me so that I will reach a “new level” in praying for the sick… then I need to know what to do.
May 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Oh it’s real funny…some people just don’t have a sense of humor.
Except that Catalyst got her name from “the news”…I’m not sure who you should be upset with here Mr. Askin, but I think Annalise should enjoy her moment in the sun.
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Crap. Do I have to total up all my IDs, Anna? Hope I don’t break your meter.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Go easy on Annalise, she is just a product of the community from which she has grown up. She is part of the generation of young people who want to spend years after high school as an intern in Wendell or Frank’s church, when she could go out into a university or a job and really make a difference with the world. She is a strong young lady and loves God with all her heart and honestly wants to do what she feels the Lord wants for her. It is also difficult when parents want their teens to be ‘accepted’ by the leadership. They want their child to be part of the ‘in’ group or said to be ‘anointed’ for a special ‘destiny’. So, parents are responsible as well as the children. Parents live their need for acceptance through the lives of their children.
Kinda, no different than parents who have a gifted athlete and since the parent never have gotten the ‘kudos’ when they were young, they push their kid to be the best to get the lime-light. I see the temptation in myself as a parent with my kids…it is not easy.
May 3rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Right on Tri4Christ, I couldnt agree with you anymore. Maybe this young lady was genuine but didnt know how to express herself other than Christian jargon because that is all she grew up with. The point is that only God knows whats in her heart.
As for GC and conferences, I have mixed feelings. I remember Matthew Barnett’s message waking me up to focus on others not myself. It was a simple message but it continues to inspire me even at the age of 25.
Sometimes, its fine to be excited about God. However, a person should NOT base entire spirituality according to this mold or pattern. The type of spirituality experienced in GC, conferences are only one type of expression towards God. I’ll agree that there is a tendency to base spirituality on emotionalism or charismatic hype.
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
sam said:
Your meter has spun around the dial several times. It’s a useless mass of springs by now.
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm
On the positive use of emotions in spirituality, I recommend the classic book: Religious Affection(s) by Jonathan Edwards.
May 4th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Having attended GU several time as both an ‘audience member’ (because lets face it, it’s just another show) and being on staff, I always found myself distracted, overwhelmed even, by the all the flashing lights and smoke machines, both of which CBC has increasingly included in their conferences and such. And if it wasn’t all the boys on stage sporting the same emo haircut and tight pants bogging down my ability to worship during all the high spirited songs, it was the teenage girls behind me whispering about how they want to be just like Donna through all the low key worship.
Truth be told, most youth ministries today, while they’ve nixed all the useless games and antics to get kids to attend, have resorted to impressing kids with their relevance. And that’s not to say the church shouldn’t be relevant socially. But becoming another seat at the pop culture table is just rather much. I once took my younger sister, who is unsaved and very non-mainstream to GU. Her comment to me was that the speakers were decent, and the music was good, but why did they have to try so hard and be so unreal.
But in Annalise’s defense, regardless of how easy it is to get ‘emotional’ during these sorts of things, I happen to know she isn’t very impressionable. As much as she may fit the mold, her attitude is very different than that of your typical CBC clone. And I agree that her name most definitely should have been left out of this.
May 4th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Also, though I agree with much of what is being said, minus the complaining about what one teenage girls said…we should be careful how much we discount the emotion that comes a long with worship. Feigned emotion during worship, following suit because it seems to be what the masses are doing. But worship and emotion can’t be separated very cleanly. There shouldn’t be any other times when we’re more emotional, whether in a good or bad way, when we are in the presence of God. Nor can we really determine when someone is or is not experiencing the real thing. Regardless of the environment, entering in is a personal and inward choice of the individual. Donna can’t make kids feel the presence of God, nor can Frank or Jack or Marc. But people can decide to so, they can press in. And no one has a right to down play that.