Young Evangelicals are so over the Republican Party
Posted on May 13th, 2008 by catalyst into the Has James Dobson gone crazy? categoryYes, I know this is a theme we've hit on over and over again, but it's close to election time in Oregon, so I thought I would roll out another fun article about how young Christians are a little miffed with the Christian Right.
"I think it's a new movement starting," said Amy Archibald, 19, a sophomore at Seattle Pacific University. "Most of us would never blindly follow the old Christian Right anymore. James Dobson has nothing to do with us. A lot of us are taking apart the issues, and thinking, 'OK, well, [none of the candidates] fits what I'm looking for exactly.' But if you're going to vote, you've got to take your pros with your cons."
Like I say, you need to vote for who you think will do the best job as President. You need to vote your conscience. Unless, of course, your conscience is telling you to vote for John McCain or Hilary Clinton. Then you need to stay home.
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May 13th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Amen to that! Although I am well past 19, I have no desire to live on the right. Conservative Christians need to ask themselves why they believe what they do. Is it because they actually research the issues and have a strong opinion and personal preference for one way over the other? Or is it that they are just blindly following what’s been taught to them from their family, friends and leaders? To me, God has just as much love for the gay man as the straight man. He wants to see the poor and neglected child live just as much as He wants to save the unborn child. Freedom of speech and the right to bear arms has to be in line with Freedom of Religion and public safety. There are no cut and dry resolutions to this political hot potato issues, and it’s wrong for right wing conservatives to automatically assume all believers should blindly believe what the party believes because that’s “what’s important to God.” Dare I say that if Jesus was alive today…He just might have been a democrat!?!
May 13th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Well said!
Jesus might have been a progressive-independent….?!!
May 13th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Jesus wouldn’t register or vote.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
“To me, God has just as much love for the gay man as the straight man. He wants to see the poor and neglected child live just as much as He wants to save the unborn child. Freedom of speech and the right to bear arms has to be in line with Freedom of Religion and public safety. There are no cut and dry resolutions to this political hot potato issues, and it’s wrong for right wing conservatives to automatically assume all believers should blindly believe what the party believes because that’s “what’s important to God.” Dare I say that if Jesus was alive today…He just might have been a democrat!?!”
I think the day where we see what is called the “Charismatic and or Pentecostal Christian” automatically voting republican is coming to an end.
“To me, God has just as much love for the gay man as the straight man.”
God loves the whole world-doesnt mean the whole world will be in heaven. Just a thought.
May 13th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
A thought, or a judgment call?
May 13th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
As much as I like Obama’s rhetoric, I don’t like Democrats’ typical recourse to government solutions to problems. Of course, the Republicans also gave up the mantle of small government and free-market solutions a long time ago.
Bob Barr, the Libertarian, is looking better all the time. Perhaps we need to seriously reconsider Jefferson’s adage, “The government that governs least, governs best.” It’s time for government at all levels to cut back on spending, taxes, and programs and just leave us alone.
May 14th, 2008 at 6:29 am
I would say a thought and a judgement call.
May 14th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Ron Paul! Ron Paul! (though I am voting for Obama)
May 14th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Do some research on this guy. He used to be a big time Republican (he lead the charge to impeach Clinton), however he switched to the Libertarian party because he got made that the Republican’s pushed him out of power. He’s flipped flopped on his stance on a lot of issues simply because he left the Republican party. Many claim that he is now just trying to pull votes away from McCain.
Much agreed, unless it means taking food, clothes, and shelter away from the poor and needy who rely on it. I say end this billion dollar war and the government will find lots of extra money!
May 14th, 2008 at 10:45 am
I think it would be correct to say that everyone is over the Republican and Democratic parties seeing how there are now more registered independent voters then either the Republican or Democratic parties. Our blog here probably consists of mostly younger conservatives, that while before may have voted Republican, surprisingly finding themselves being better represented now by the candidates of the democratic persuasion. The bigger questions is why. In my opinion the war in Iraq, that has cost some of my high school buddies their lives, seems to be the huge elephant in the middle of the living room that no one on the right wants to admit was a horrible mistake. I think until the candidates on the right distance themselves from this single action that continues to bankrupt our county and drive oil prices into the sky, we will continue to be drawn into the loving arms of a change policy, currently only being heralded by a Mr. Barack Obama. Incidently, he is the one best bringing in most of the “young” vote.
May 14th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
It always throws me to hear my religious & conservative brother & his wife say “Get Bush the f**k out of there! I am voting for Obama”. Also, I thought my dad would have a fit when I told him I was voting for Obama (he is also religious & conservative), but he beat me to the disclosure and said he would be voting for Obama. My dad will be 59 in July…not such a young conservative.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
let’s have some more fun…
Condoleezza Rice is female… Good-bye hypocritical Hillary.
Condoleezza Rice is black… Good-bye inexperienced Obama.
McCain/Rice in 2008?
May 17th, 2008 at 9:17 am
In my first election at 18 I voted for Carter (big mistake)
Then I became a Reagan Republican.
I voted for Bush which was another mistake because I think this war is wrong and we are there for the wrong reasons.
As a woman who is now 49 I have come to a point in my life that I am looking at things through different eyes. I have read up on all of the candidates, prayed, listened and even gone to see Obama when he was here last time.
I do not agree with everything that the democrats believe in and not everything that Obama believes in but I strongly believe that he could make a positive change. I am tired of the old Washington (Bush/Clinton).
I would love to see Obama and Colin Powell Ticket. I hope that when Barack wins the nomination that he will not pick Clinton as his running mate. . I don’t think I could vote for any ticket that Hillary was on.
I switched parties to vote for Obama and I will vote for him if he wins the democratic nomination. I know several people in my age bracket who have done the same so it’s not just the young who are attracted to Obama.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
You must mean Carter’s 2nd term … my first vote, in 1976 I was 20, for Carter’s first term. Live and learn … I can still see Reagan debating him and saying “There he goes again …”
May 17th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Yes, Carter’s second term but my first vote in an election.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Obama will do more for this countries direction, image in the world and moral among its citizens then any other president in the last 40 years. He has been able to get people who have never cared about the political process off their butts and into voting booths. He has created a positive vibe among all people groups regardless of age, sex and race. He has injected a new hope into peoples eyes, that we all collectively so desperately need. Yes, he is a mere man with a lot of flaws, questionable decisions and sinful at the core, but who isn’t? Obama should be the next president of the United States because he will help us as American citizens believe in the power of unity once again. The last time that happened was September 12th, 2001 and it lasted for about 6 months…then Bush invaded Iraq and it has been all downhill since.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Amen Ex
May 19th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I am SO OVER the Republican party! I was so conservative, politically, until I lived overseas and then left CBC…how shocked (and, ultimately, liberated) as I to learn that Christian and Republican are not synonyms!!!
kmarie, I know a lot of other people who, like you, switched parties so that they could vote for Obama. I’m a big Obama fan, as well.
75 THOUSAND people at his rally in Portland yesterday! Yes. 75 THOUSAND. Awesome. My husband was there and loved it! It’s so nice to have someone we want to vote FOR rather than against. I’m cynical enough to believe no one gets that high up the food chain without some level of corruption, but he is–hands down–our very best option!
May 19th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I was at the rally too. . it was incredible and my second time seeing him in person. There is nothing better than being among 75,000 people who feel the same way you do.
It’s unfortunate that many christians believe they are required to vote Republican.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Amen.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:46 am
That’s so cool. I heard about this on the national news. 75 thousand people is the size of a crowd for USC college football game down here. I cannot imagine that many people to see Obama.
Where was the rally held? What facility held that many people?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:19 am
It was on the waterfront - wide open space on the river.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Here’s a great video of the rally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ4XsemlDP4
Notice the all the white faces? So much for Obama’s inability to reach white folks.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Not sure everybody there was expressly for Obama. On the Mark & Dave show yesterday they were asking for feedback from people who were there. Some people called in to say they were Downtown and just went over to see what the crowd was for.
You know how Portland is… the whole freeway slows down to look when it’s just a guy changing his tire. We’re either a very curious city or very bored.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Most people who stood in line from 8am until the gates opened were there for Obama. . I walked up and down those streets (line all the way to Broadway) and people were pumped for Obama. May have been a few stragglers but I believe most came to see him.
You had to be there to believe it.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Did anyone see what Mike Huckabee said at the NRA Convention. This is why young people are over the Republican party…
May 20th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Here is his apology about making that statement. . what an idiot.
“During my speech at the N.R.A., a loud noise backstage, that sounded like a chair falling, distracted the crowd and interrupted my speech. I made an off hand remark that was in no way intended to offend or disparage Sen. Obama. I apologize that my comments were offensive. That was never my intention.”>
May 20th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
“It’s unfortunate that many christians believe they are required to vote Republican.”
Isnt that the truth or that YOU HAVE TO VOTE to be a christian.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
You don’t have to vote to be a Christian, but I think it’s a civil responsibility we all have as citizens of the USA. Christians are the only people truly capable of being FREE thinkers, so let’s use our minds, people!
May 20th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I agree with you. BUT, there are many that I know that hold a strong stance that you are probably not even born again if you vote other than the Republican party.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Help Me,
Yes, there are many who believe that. I’m not sure I understand the connection between that belief and “if you don’t vote, you’re not a Christian.” I would wager that those who believe THAT would also believe you have to vote R in order to prove your salvation. Any beliefs along those lines, with the coersion that usually accompanies them, are corruptions of the Gospel. Voting, political parties, bikinis, paper or plastic, car or bike…none of these are salvation issues & it both amuses and sickens me that far too many legalistic, pompous, religious people spend inordinate amounts of time and efforts spouting edicts about these minor issues!!!
Of course we all feel strongly about our political beliefs! Of course the current election stirs those up. It matters to us who our next President is, and that’s good. We should care about our country, the place we live and the place our children live and will live. But, I have to keep preaching to myself, regularly these days, that the government is upon HIS shoulders (not the USA’s government, but the government of the entire world–past, present and future), that He can work through believers and unbelievers alike to accomplish His purposes, and that He truly is sovereign…and THAT all matters intfinitely more than who wins this election. All that being said, GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!
May 21st, 2008 at 5:09 am
There is no God but government, and Obama is his prophet.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:35 am
I was there and it was awesome! And I just said the other day how exciting it is just to have a candidate that I am excited to vote for rather than feeling like I am voting against the other guy. I don’t feel stuck with voting for the lesser of two evils. Obama!
May 21st, 2008 at 10:24 am
Someone please explain the Obama love to me. He’s clearly talented and charismatic. The thing I like about him most is that he seems to rise above typical political rancor. That is refreshing. But policy wise, I think he’s a disaster.
So do ya’ll like him because he’s young and appears to not be part of the DC establishment, or do you actually like his politics? (Assuming we even know what they are.)
May 21st, 2008 at 10:33 am
Yes. And yes.
And I like him because he appears as though he is going to try to avoid a war with Iran. Which, you know, is a plus in my book.
I’ve got two issues this election. Foreign Policy and Competence. The second is achievable by anyone not named Bush. And on Foreign Policy, while I respect McCain, I think his tough tactics are the wrong approach. After 6 years of a failed war in Iraq, I’m convinced we need more diplomacy.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:54 am
I like him because he has proven himself to be decent, ethical and moral but refuses to try and legislate his morality or to impose it on others.
I like him because he has proven himself to be intelligent and thoughtful. His ideas and responses to questions are new but also well thought out.
I like him because he is not a simple man…his mind is complex.
I like him because he has a healthy ego…something I believe is absolutely necessary for the job as President of the United States.
I like him because he married a woman who helps keep his ego in check.
I also believe that no man or woman is ever prepared to become president for the first time. It’s about being willing to learn how things are done and who you surround yourself with. I trust Obama to surround himself with smart people and to have a willingness to not only listen to them but to also consider what they say.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:09 am
On top of that, I think he will come up with the best course of action…which may or may not make me happy. I can’t guarantee that I will love everything he does, but I believe that he will be there doing the best he can with my interests in head and in his heart. Wow. That sounded suuuuper sappy. If he tries as hard as he can but can’t find a way around something and has to do it the old way, as long as he is honest about it then that’s fine with me.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:30 am
I like him for the following reasons:
Competence: Look at how he has run his campaign. He has been very effective. I have no doubt that he is competent to run this country.
Experience: I like that he is not “OLD WASHINGTON”. Obama passed up a lucrative career in corporate law to work as a community organizer. He has held 11 years of elected office. He has worked to pass bills on health care, education, taxes, death penalty reform and veteran’s benefits.
Trust: I trust him, He has been consistent in everything he does, everything he says, how he has lived his life and how he has given his life to work for average Americans. No matter how hard the Clinton Camp has tried they have not proven one single inconsistency in who Obama is or what he says.
The War: I want us out of Iraq and not into another war in Iran!
Healthcare Reform: I like his healthcare plan
He has received an A+ score from the Genocide Intervention Network for being a “champion” and taking crucial action to end the genocide in Darfur, co-sponsoring and voting for all significant Darfur legislation.
Obama has brought democrats, independents and Republicans, young and old, rich and poor, educated and not, all races together to work for change.
I may not agree with all of his politics but I have hope that he will make chages that will have a positive impact. I think he is worth the shot.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:13 am
I waver on Obama. Everything “looks” like he’s worth taking a shot on, but his lack of experience (age-wise and leadership-wise vs. an older candidate) do bother me a bit. I’m particularly concerned about national security, cause while I’ve tired of the war, I only want us out of there if the net is a better situation for the people in Iraq and no heightened risk of security concern for the U.S.
Is it really so hard for SOMEBODY to come up with a freaking plan to stabalize that situation over there and get our troops home in a short amount of time. I can’t believe how many lives have been shed and how much money has been spent on a war that doesn’t seem to have accomplished anything!
No way I’m voting for Hillary.
I love Obama’s overall “breath of fresh air” feeling, but I also find a little comfort in McCain’s experience.
BTW…does it bother anyone here about Obama’s relationship with his pastor?
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:37 am
The following presidents were younger than Obama when they took office (he will be 47 in August:
Bill Clinton: 46
John Kennedy: 43
Teddy Roosevelt: 46
Ulysses S. Grant: 46
Some who were barely older than Obama will be:
Grover Cleveland: 47
James Garfield: 49
Franklin Roosevelt: 51
Jimmy Carter: 52
Abe Lincoln: 52
Seriously…his age does not matter.
Obama isn’t just a “breath of fresh air” — he has substance. Some people are scared of him because he is an idealist while simultaneously being a realist. People see that as naive and stupid but he is an incredibly intelligent man. They see it as a mark of someone who can’t accomplish anything because his head is in the clouds…but that is simply not the case. I know many people who are very, very smart - genius level smart - and who are also idealistic realists. Those are the kind of people we want as leaders…people who are visionaries. It’s not like he will be doing this all alone — it takes a multitude of different kinds of people to work together to get anything important & difficult accomplished. Obama is the perfect man to lead them.
In regards to the pastor issue…pppppttttth. Obama has openly addressed not only his disagreement with his pastors statements but also the underlying sentiments there. I would be willing to bet he probably disagreed with him in private before any of us knew who he was. That’s the kind of man I see Obama to be…the kind who will willingly engage in discussion and argument in order to come to a better understanding of those he both agrees and disagrees with.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
Well said Just Thinking
I don’t know anyone who always agrees with everything their pastor stands for or does. . unless you don’t have a mind of your own.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 am
JT and Kmarie,
Please take my comments merely as inquiries to gain insight, not a defense/attack on any particular candidate. I am not a very “political” person, so my knowledge of ANY of the candidates would represent only the sub-section of our population that don’t spend a lot of time researching candidates, but gather bits and pieces here and there.
JT, thanks for your exploration of other office holders ages. That is a good point. The irony to the fuzzy feeling I get with my perception of McCain being more “experienced” (in regards to age and security) is that he’s also old as dirt, which is a true concern with me as well.
Regarding your dismissal of Obama’s relationship with his pastor, I’m not quite as persuaded on that topic yet. I don’t know facts, but didn’t Obama spend like 10-15 years in that church under that pastor? And didn’t that pastor baptize his kid(s)? I agree with Kmarie’s comments about how not everyone believes or agrees with everything their pastor says, but to stay in that environment for that long and hear the things he spoke about so often, I can’t help believe that crafts your thinking a bit.
Just my .02. Please don’t hit the attack button just because you’re more passionate or informed about your candidate choice than I am. I’m just here to discuss and learn a little bit because I value the opinions of the people on this blog.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:20 am
Concerning Obama’s pastor … haven’t some of us heard similarly disturbing statements from the charismatic / 5-fold ministry crowd? Especially from those who hold themselves to be prophetic?
The number of judgments they’ve prophesied as coming to America because God is ticked are too many to count … some are particularly venomous about their prophetic declarations … yet, we don’t hear about them hardly at all … I think the issue gives them something to fault Obama with, since obviously they can’t fault him publicly for his skin-color.
Is that pastor saying “God damn America” really any different than all the would-be prophets declaring God’s judgment of America? Google turns up 633,000 web pages!
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
Good point Scrupe. Thanks.
I’ve been as involved in this political process as any before (which is obviously not much and nearly as much as many of you), but it’s SOOOO confusing to me, as I listen to the left attack the right with what sounds like valid points, and vice versa!
At this point I’m feeling like voting for Obama just to say “what the hell, can it really get any worse?” But I don’t want to make an unwise decision out of weariness. I’m particularly sensitive to the matter of national security, and my logical brain tells me if we remove ourselves from Iraq in the wrong way we do ourselves a serious disservice.
I do agree with the point JT made earlier that Obama won’t be doing it alone. Hopefully he’ll make shrewd decisions in whom he chooses to surround himself with and get things accomplished through. There’s been so much ineptness lately, I’m definitely ready for a change.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:54 am
Sorry Grey Sheep! I just love Obama
There are a lot of things written (by people on both sides) about what Obama’s pastor said and what his response was. I think it is good to read what both sides have to say and I don’t feel that I could detail it all very eloquently or convincingly here.
What I notice most about the articles written by those who oppose Obama is that there is a lot of fear-mongering happening. What I notice most about those who support Obama is that there is an acknowledgment of responsibility.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I agree with both points. It’s hard to imagine hearing a person say such stupid things for 15-20 years and still sit there and listen to them without fighting back. But we only know what the media is telling us. Behind closed doors Obama could have argued with Rev. Wright about what he was preaching or he could have agreed 100%. Either way I don’t think it has much affect on his ability to lead our country. There are plenty of people who believe or don’t believe certain things in their personal life and it has little affect in their professional life. What Obama stands for is way above politics. He stands for change, transformation and a new image for Washington/America. He is the future and we all must get on board!
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm
All this talk of “change” is a little disconcerting. I would prefer to know what the change is before jumping on the bandwagon. I agree that change is necessary, but is the change a return to a constitutional government (yay!), or moving us closer to Nanny government (boo!)?
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Thats right. Touch not God’s annointed.
Truthfully, it is precisely these kind of statements from people who almost worship the guy that scares me the most. There is a lot to like about the guy. But the fact that someone gives you the “warm and fuzzies” is no reason to make him the most powerful man in the world. Keep you feet on the ground and your mind engaged.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Am I the only one that sees the irony in people on this blog being dismayed over someone spending a lengthy period of time in a church, listening to wacky theology? ISN’T THAT WHAT WE ALL DID???? I sure as @!#$@&^ wouldn’t want anyone to criticize me for any of the insanity spouted from the platform of CBC (not that it was all insane, just as I’m sure not everything Obama’s pastor said was insane).
I know, I know, none of us are running for President. My point is that even highly intelligent people get deceived and have trouble seeing the picture when they’re inside the frame. I just wanted to raise the issue of irony.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Again, Obama goes way beyond warm and fuzzy. He brings intelligence, unity, leadership, charisma, and a new direction. Tell me the last President to do that?
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Ronald Reagan.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Couldn’t agree more.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
I only worship the Lord.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:03 am
Why guys, haven’t you read:
The man is anointed, I tell ya!
Sam
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:09 am
Without exception, the person feeling the warm and fuzzy always believes there is substance behind it. And in some cases there is. But for me, the trick is not becoming so emotionally attached to the source of the warm and fuzzy that you are unwilling to objectively consider criticisms of it. After all, isn’t blind loyalty to a charismatic front-man because of some emotional connection precisely what we dislike about wealthy, mega-church culture?
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:09 am
Exactly….20 years ago! Don’t you think it’s time for that kind of change? Vote for McCain because of your “principles” (whatever the hell that means), but continue to feel miserable over the state of our nation for the next four years…unless you are one of the rich oil republicans that has benifited under Bush. In that case I would see why you want to continue such punishment.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:11 am
Ha, you’re halarious. You make it sound like we’re voting for who we are going to marry or something….funny.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:30 pm
I do worry that sometimes his supporters, and I count myself among them, set expectations way too high for Obama.
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Maybe I’m just a cynic, but I really have a hard time believing that Obama will bring positive change to this country. Maybe he’ll bring change, maybe it will be more of the same, but I’m not so sold on the belief that Obama knows what’s best for America or that simply by electing him all our problems will be solved. I think he knows what’s best for getting elected, but further than that I can’t really credit him. What America needs in times like these is a tough-ass in office, not someone who comes and gives everyone the warm and fuzzies and talks about this ambiguous topic of “change”.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Yeah, like George Bush. Maybe we can get them to change the Constitution so he can serve a 3rd term. Then we can continue to be the most hated country in the world, have more terrorist attacks against us, continue to fight in meaningless wars, watch our economy dissapear, loose what little value that’s left in the dollar, and leave no trees, oil, clean air, or fresh drinking water for our grandchildren. Yeh! Three cheers for another tough ass Bush.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Right On Ex!
May 28th, 2008 at 8:13 am
The Dems have been in control of congress for almost 2 years and we are no closer to getting the troops out than when they were voted in despite all of the promises. My point is not to bash them but to say that the issues surrounding America are bigger than our sound bite and inspiring speech political world that we live in.
I am leaning towards voting for Obama for a number or reasons. Here is my prediction. Obama wins the election. In 2012, Obama runs for re-election and is still running against the Bush years. The argument will be that the 8 years of Bush so destroyed our country’s foundation that it will take more than 8 years to get us on the right track.
Let me give on quick example. Gas prices have risen considerably. However, I am going to Europe this summer to visit my in-laws. They are paying the equivalent of $9+/gallon. They have been paying over $4/gal for at least 8 years. Bush and big bad oil companies are not the primary cause of rising gas prices, but they are easy targets. Will we invest in alternative energies with the same fervor we used to get into space? Probably not. It is easier to complain and blame.
May 28th, 2008 at 8:31 am
As far as Obama and Pastor Wright, it would be tough to go to a predominately black church in America without very similar things being said. He would almost certainly have to leave the black church. The other funny thing is that there is some substance hidden in all of the mess. The substance is that America has done whatever it takes to get what it wants at different times in its history. People freak out about the ridiculous AIDS comments but don’t realize that there is precedent for the US government using minorities as unwitting test subjects for disease.
If God loves all people, then He can’t be completely pleased with how this nation has acted in many situations. Does that mean God is going to damn America. No, I don’t think so. Does it mean that saying AmeriKKK is correct or makes any sense? No. Yet, we lose something by not acknowledging the grains of truth in his statements. Ignoring those truths just gives those who believe them more energy.
One last example here. I am going to greatly simplify the subject but forgive me for that ahead of time. The “white flight” after WW2 was not about primarily about racism or fear of minorities as has always been implied. The original GI bill that gave vets access to low cost loans had segregation written into it. The section with the loans had a section that said that one of the goals was to create homogeneous communities. This one clause allowed builders to keep minorities out of new suburbs. The loans could only be used on new housing. So, white vets were able to get into new housing in the burbs, while minorities were not able to access those funds. One group had to stay in the same houses in the same communities. In this case, the government gave money to one group, disallowed another from getting benefits and created a new defacto segregation at the same time. These types of situations are scattered throughout US history. It is difficult to not think that God is not pleased. No fire and brimstone around but far from the US being “God’s Country.”
May 29th, 2008 at 4:44 am
Good insights Fred. I’ll just add that the US govt. is known to have authorized the release of radioactive material around the Hanford nuclear facility back in the 50’s. It caused an elevated cancer rate for the people downwind of it. It is also known that the US Navy released biological agents from a submarine just off of San Fransisco. It caused a flu epidemic that sickened and killed people. Of course they needed to do these things for defense purposes. (?)
The recent response to hurricane Katrina shows what our government really thinks of its’ citizens. Don’t forget to pay your taxes. Take a look at Luke 4:7 to see who is in control of the governments of this age. The only real change that will occur is when Christ returns.
Peace
June 10th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
So now that Obama is the nominee, hopefully more people will do research on him and McCain, and not just blindly vote for McCain because he is the “conservative” of the two. Reality is the McCain used to be more liberal and has moved more and more to the right in order to appease the republican party. Obama has been consistantly liberal and rarely waivered on his stance. I like that kind of consistency.
You have 5 months to decide people…use this blog to ask questions and lets get the issues out on the table.
June 10th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I wonder how “consistantly liberal” Obama would appear had he been in the Senate as long as McCain?
June 10th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I have a number of challenges when thinking about this election.
The first is that this nation is not going to hell in a hand basket as much as folks say on TV. Our perspectives are off. For example, I was just sent a picture from my father in law of he and his brother when they were kids. They were wearing extra long pants with the bottoms rolled up so they could grow into them. That was during America’s period of prosperity (1950’s). My kids get new pants more often than I want to buy them. Both the people and the government of the US have built up a sense of entitlement that we should have all of the stuff. Until that changes we will continue to simply re-arrange deck chairs and not really remodel some things in our country.
I could write a book, so I will start off with that thought. BTW, I am pretty much a centrist independent. Not right, left, rep or dem.
June 27th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Check this out!
http://jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/
LOVE it!
June 27th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Obama is STUPID.. I heard on the news he is helping Hilary to pay off her campaign debt. Schpit. . that lady has more in the bank than her debt and/or the ability to earn that much (on cattle futures if nothing else).
Think he’d pay off my debt too??
June 28th, 2008 at 5:54 am
If you could get him several million votes. Yeah, he’d pay off your debt too.
June 28th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Heh. I like it too. But I kind of wish it wasn’t a pro-Obama site. I wish Christians had just stood up years ago and made this statement.
And guess what, Obama doesn’t speak for me either. The only person who speaks for me, is me.
June 28th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Living Life, what Obama is doing (in terms of paying off Hilary’s debt) is pretty common, actually.
Catalyst, I agree it wasn’t a pro-Obama site and had been said years ago, but at least it’s being said now! I’m the only person who speaks for me, too. A major pet peeve of mine is people who claim to “speak on behalf” of me or groups of people, but who are actually just using people to further their own agenda and have no idea what the people they claim to represent actually think/believe/want/need.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Dobson does not speak for me, but Dobson’s thoughts do represent a whole lot of people’s personal opinions. One of the main issues as I have as I heard his stuff is that all of his issues are not particularly “christian” issues. Taxes, the flag, and many other issues are not Christian issues. We can use our faith to help us form our positions but to act as if “real Christians believe…” drives me nuts.
I don’t think I have paid attention to one thing he has done since he jumped into the political world with both feet in 2004 election cycle. The political stuff detracts from what he is actually good at. There are so many places to go for information on family issues to deal with some of that stuff.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:48 am
amen to the wincing. and to Obama annoying Dobson (as well as those he thinks for) - I’d be tempted to give him my vote on this alone!
It’s way past the time for the Church at large to no longer be ignorant, but to study, research, find out what we each think for ourselves — in essence quit leaning on the Dobson’s, the Senior Pastors, the established-by-popularity-celebrity Apostles/Prophets to do our thinking for us. And speak up about it when the opportunity arises even if it goes against the typical party line respectively.