People are leaving in spades
Posted on June 18th, 2008 by catalyst into the Comments From Others categoryA reader writes:
Have you guys heard/written anything about Living Hope Fellowship in Aloha, Oregon? The place is ripe with unreal, unbelievable religious abuse and inconsistencies. The pastor is a graduate of PBC and a proud member of MFI. Interestingly enough, he left MFI years ago and referred to the organization as "The Firm".
Now he subscribes to the same thinking and the bizarre happenings at that church could fill a book. The pastors have allowed their kids to take over and run the church, their theology is bizzare, they have covered up major sexual indiscretions, but defamed others for not paying their tithes consistently and the list goes on.
Just curious as I've not seen anything written on them and I cannot imagine there aren't scores of bitter ex-LHF'ers. Right now, people are leaving in spades.
Take care. You guys are awesome.
I'm posting this email for two reasons.
One, the writer called us awesome.
Two, the sentence "people are leaving in spades".
Sometimes I feel that readers of this blog consider themselves victims. And while I admit some people truly are vicitms of their church, the vast majority are only vicitms, because they never had the courage to leave the congregation. No one forces you to attend church. You are always free to leave.
Now, I grew up in the church. So I understand the emotional ties one creates with the pastor and congregation. But when that emotion changes from a feeling of belonging to one of anger and bitterness, then you just need to leave. And you need to stop blaming others for your failure to act.
*Editors note: I do not verify the accuracy of the statements made in the letter above.
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June 18th, 2008 at 5:40 am
This is sad to here. Back when JS cut the ties with MFI there was the idea he could break out of the mold, but from the above comment it does not appear he succeeded. Sad.
June 18th, 2008 at 7:15 am
and
Those are some pretty serious allegations made by the quoted reader. Is there any actual evidence?
I imagine, like any large church, Living Hope probably has their fair share of disgruntled “employees” who have not been promoted or recognized as expected over the years. A bitter segment of its work-force that have “seen the light” and jumped ship.. and now in their anger and bitterness they want to tell everyone the “truth” about what “really” goes on behind the scenes.
Why shouldn’t we consider this “reader” as just another one of these ex-members, out to discredit the church, rather then assume they are telling the truth?
I don’t think it’s very responsible (or Christ-like) to throw libellous statements around about a church/pastor without any kind of evidence to back up the story.
So… if we are to believe anything quoted by the reader, please provide some evidence. Names. Places. People who can confirm and/or corroborate, etc.
Otherwise, this “reader” can only be considered to be spreading gossip about a member of the body of Christ.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Amen to that!
June 18th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Henri, if you think this post crosses the line, I can certainly remove it. I wasn’t really trying to make a point about Living Hope, more just saying, if you don’t like your church leave.
Perhaps I can edit this later tonight and soften the reader’s email.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:40 am
No, I don’t think it should be removed… but I think you might want to add a little “editors note” to your post so it doesn’t give the impression that you actually believe, without any evidence, what the quoted text says.
I hope that makes sense.
I think this place is GREAT for posting of opinions and such, but when there are quotes such as that, without evidence to support what is written, then it can be considered libel. (As well as just being gossip, etc.)
I think it’s worth prefacing your posted quote to add something like, “This is the readers OPINION and they have not provided any evidence to substantiate their claim…”
You know what I mean? We all know it’s more then likely correct, but still… if someone is going to libel an organization and/or person, then they should be man enough to provide some kind of evidence to support it. Otherwise, it’s just an opinion. The quoted part of your post makes it kind of look like you believe it’s fact.
:)
June 18th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Different topic:
Did any of you Portlanders read today’s Willamette Week? You’ve got to check out the FEATURE STORY:
http://wweek.com/editorial/3432/11118/
I started reading, with the perverse thought that non-MFI youth leaders were getting some press, until I realized it was all about the HARRIS family. Yes, the Gregg Harris, Joshua Harris family. The two twins, small children when I last saw them, are apparently superstars in the tiny, cloistered sub-culture of hyper-evangelical home-schoolers. They have books. They have seminars. They even have a blog - therebelution.com.
Honestly, I’m not really ready to comment on this, but I wanted to bring it the attention of y’all, because I’m sure some of you will be interested in this. I’d love to hear what you think, and I’ll write about my own thoughts later. Maybe this could be a strand all on its own? Catalyst? RP?
June 19th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Wow Little Pony, as for Joshua Harris’ dating books, the only thing I would agree is focusing on friendship rather than romance. That concept has actually blessed me and helped me.
I know that these guys may have good intention. But I find this interesting. The repeated cliche is to not be like the world. It seems these christian circles are quick to talk about “low” standards and not being like the world in things that are relatively ‘easy’ to make a stand.
How come they are not taking a stand against materialism? And why are they becoming another Christian celebrity? And grace rather than works? Anybody can get on stage and make noise, but it takes a real person to show compassion and live out the gospel day-to-day.
I don’t mind ‘Christian’ events like these but it bothers me when the attention turns away from Jesus and the person on stage gets the glory or it’s about a church sub-culture.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:30 am
I find a contradiction. The article says that these guys think adolescence as a distinct phase of life such as adolescence being the phase of exploring, experimenting and seeking identity is unnecessary and not beneficial to society. Yet, the conferences are very centered on “American” youth culture.
June 19th, 2008 at 3:27 am
Here we go again… big conferences with $35 registration fee, $15 Tee shirts. The subject, of course, is the need to “take back America for conservative values”. I see a couple problems here. 1. Who are they preaching to? Teens from Christian families, so they are ‘preaching to the choir’ from the start. 2. It is well known that lecturing to a large audience is the poorest way to give instruction. Couple that with the fact that what they are selling is what gave us the Bush administration and you have a recipe for being irrelevant. Of course, the speakers themselves will get wealthy from the events…and that is what matters!
How about a word from the Lord Jesus? “Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and let the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous still practice righteousness; and let the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.” Revelation 22:11.
It would be a good thing if these large churches would start doing what Jesus has told them to do. “go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
June 19th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Living Hope is pastored by Jess Strickland- Out of his own mouth years ago He was a maverick- Says he came more centered after years going at it alone— I went to PBC and he was a teacher there and I have to say that I do not think he is a CBC believer. My opinion is that he is actually in the mold of anything but CBC. I know that several of us who were not big fans of the church went and visited his service and it was very different from the corporate feel of a CBC service.
My thoughts
June 20th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Jess and Brenda, were a little different from the adverage PBCer and stood out because they had much more stylish clothes than the rest of us.
I had a friend that attended Living Hope many years ago. She worked for the church at a pauper’s wage. She was always up on the biggest church “fad”, flag worship, and tatoo lips.
Tim Smith, Wendell’s cousin, was the music pastor. He is/was one of the most sensitive smith’s of the entire pack and I always felt he sincerely wanted to know how I was when he asked “how are you?’. He’s actually wait for an answer and look at you. He is one person that I have never heard a negative word in a description of his character.
By second hand impression from my friend, I think part of LHF’s break from MFI had to do with association to prior BT members. Perhaps some are bloggers here.
A couple years ago, I suspected, by comments from my friend, that the church was going in the direction of the “post modern” flavor, which for me, that was a good thing. Obviously a return to MFI would negate that possibility.
The personality and mindset of my friend that attended LHF was identital to the mindset of BT’ers now known as City Bible Churchers. She was very much subject to the “authority” of the “leadership”.
It makes me a little sad that they are back in the MFI fold. I really thought they might be a step up from that.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:32 am
I am an ex LHF’r and am not surprised by the comments left by the disgruntled one. After attending faithfully and being involved to the fullest extent possible for half a decade, I felt like I had to be deprogrammed, as if from a cult. It has been more than that now, and I have moved on, thankfully. I had some really great times there, but things changed, and changed, and changed for the worse.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
How?
June 30th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Same old story, different church name…the list just goes on and on. Wish more people would realize what a shame these places have become.
June 30th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I rarely look at this web-site, since I was informed of it. Today I looked at a few comments, and have come to this conclusion, with a few exceptions, that the people who spend time on this web-site have not learned to live life, and in doing so don’t teach others to think. And yes instead of listening to every sissy, and whiny butt, that has some kind of gripe or problem, just because they can not think, gets on their bandwagon and flies their flag. For God’s sake (& everyone elses), if you don’t like something, work to change it, and if you don’t like it, go somewhere else. If you don’t like the United States, go somewhere else, where you think you will be happy. There are planes leaving every hour of the day for other countries, and nothing is stopping you from leaving (short of getting a passport). The same goes for a church, anybody with a pea size of a brain, knows that there is no such thing as a perfect church, and if there was, the moment you people walked in the door, poof, there goes the perfection. What does it take to wake you people up, that by going thru life, gathering all the whiny butts, and people that do not know how to think, to follow your brand of nonsense, isn’t going to come and bite you in the butt some day. What goes around, comes around, or for those who know your bible, do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. I feel sorry for you people, when you get on into the journey of life & a while later, and realize how silly and stupid you have been by wasting all of your time, spinning your wheels. I spent 6 years in the US Military to defend this country, and all of your rights to free speech (free for you, you didn’t do a d— thing to defend a single word you utter! )Remember, nothing is free, unless you are a modern thinking Democrat, and then it still isn’t free, it’s just the American public is paying for it, whether with blood or money. No I am not a REPUBLICAN, I am a registered Independant, and vote accoridng to my concience , the best I can by educating myself on the person or issues, and what is best for this country, not just best for ME !. I seriously considered posting my name, but in thinking about it, I do not want to waste my time discussing in person, with someone who only has a gripe, axe to grind, or a serious mental or spiritual disorder. I don’t agree with every thing at CBC, but I don’t go around looking for everyone who is just a simple ass, and can’t handle life to jump on my bandwagon. Yes I vent at times to those I trust, but that is it, or I work to best the situation if I can.
I would like to quote a comment made by someone else in another posting on this web-site: “FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS HAS TO BE IN LINE WITH FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND PUBLIC SAFETY. THERE ARE NO CUT AND DRY RESOLUTIONS TO THIS POLITICAL HOT POTATO”.
You see the point? This is not just a political hot potato. It is a Constitution of the United States issue. And the U.S. Supreme Court just made a correct decision that Americans have the right (according to article 2, of the Constition) to have arms (for those that don’t understand - GUNS ), in their homes. Yes outside the home, there must be restrictions, mentally incompetant, felons, etc., that should be decided by local jurisdictions.
Yes, every idiot with something to say, (including me, according to some of you) has free speech, but remember - even that is tempered! You do not have the right to yell FIRE !, in a crowd of people, just because you want to.
Please people, live life, instead of living in a cocoon of a soap opera, do something worthwhile instead of griping and being a whiny butt all the time.
July 11th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
I went to LHF for years and my experience was as follows:
Came during a very weird revival time
Got over said weird revival activities because the pastor/people seemed very sincere
Learned that Pastor is fake and a liar
Observed that the Pastor manipulates and uses people
Thought I had great friends but the people turned out to be shallow, obsessed with material possessions and under complete control of the Pastor
LHF is a po-dunk little church, trying too hard to be a cool church and trying WAY too hard to act like they have money that they don’t have. The leaders dress RIDICULOUS and strut around acting like they are hot chit. Scores (and spades) of people have left very wounded and I can easily see why.
July 11th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
BTW: Henri, what kind of proof? You want the names of the people involved in the indiscretions listed, dates, times, positions?