The Problem With Portland Bible College
Posted on August 14th, 2008 by The Reformer into the PBC categoryHere at City Business we have a a lot of ex-PBCer's, and regardless of your thoughts on the place, I don't think anyone can deny that PBC has created a lot of controversy over the years. It is a very polarizing place. On one side you have zealots who say PBC is the best place to learn the Bible and on the other side you have those who hate the place for ruining their lives. A regular poster recently had this to say:
"I attended PBC wanting to get a basic understanding of theology, religion and the bible. I wanted it to be a foundation for the rest of my life. I’m a bit pissed off towards those who told me PBC was a good place to be for that. That is a lie! After entering PBC, I found out that it was the opposite. PBC is more like an internship for those who want to be full-time pastors/leaders at MFI type of churches…If I knew this was the case, I would have only taken a couple of classes. I feel that I wasted my time there. I went there out of zeal and because I was encouraged to pursue my “calling.” Now I regret going there."
I personally never went to PBC. They tried to push me that direction, but thankfully God spared me from that life lesson. My wife on the other hand was one of those who was duped into attending. She grew up at City Bible and it was always assumed that she would go. So after transferring from her public school to attend City Christian, she went to PBC straight out of high school (which she claims were two of the biggest mistakes of her life). After one semester of crying almost everyday she got out. She says that her few months there were some of the works times in her life. She felt trapped and lied to. There was nothing educational about it. And to make matters worse, when she transferred to a real college, they wouldn't accept any of her PBC credits.
To me PBC is simply a place to indoctrinate young, impressionable minds into the MFI, works-based, legalistic, way of thinking. It perpetuates a false gospel. And I find it sad that so many 20 somethings who are suppose to be in the freest time of their lives (before full-time jobs, marriage and kids) are completely wrapped up in something that will add very little benefit to their futures.
I would love to hear what some of you current and former PBCer's think?
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August 14th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Doug Lasit told me (and two of my friends) specifically to NOT go to PBC. That was one of only two good pieces of advice I received from a pastor at CBC.
The other was that I had to make my own decisions and not wait for someone to tell me what to do because that is part of growing up/becoming an adult. And that was after I was crying and saying, “I just want someone to tell me what to do…”. Looking back, I realize how lucky I was that he and his wife didn’t take advantage of that moment to get me under someone’s “wing” and at their every beck and call.
Those two pieces of “advice” changed my life…for the better.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
You’ve just improved my opinion of Doug. Nice to see he’s not a complete City Bible clone.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Agreed, nice to here something positive that Dougie did.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
It is a mystery to me….because at the same time he was pushing PBC from the pulpit like, every Wednesday night. I suppose that can be chalked up to pressure from higher ups.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
As a youth pastor, we sent some kids there. Only one of them finished and none of them ever liked CBC. They all went to other churches as much as they could get away with. I didn’t exactly get it at the time, but I do now.
In hindsight, I would have told the students to suck it up and spend the money to go to Northwest/George Fox/Multnomah/etc, if they wanted a Christian education.
August 14th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Good post, Reformer. I’m so sorry to hear about your wife’s awful experience at PBC. There sure are many things to cry about there.
I went to PBC for two years. I did so after I had already gone to university (secular! I know, scandalous) and earned a four-year degree. So, because I had that under my belt, and because I was 22 instead of 18, I was not the typical PBC student. I did feel called to go, and I can’t say I regret it, only because I can look back and see how God has directed me every step of my life, and going to PBC got me to move to Portland (where I still live, many years later) and also positioned me for many other major life events (husband, ministry, career, etc.). However, it was not an academic place. Not even close. Nor was it a particularly spiritually enriching place. The emphasis was on legalism, not salvation by grace through faith; on rote memorization, not analytical thinking; on image, not substance; on behavior, not heart; on indoctrination, not authentic belief. I could say more, but you get it.
Some of my PBC “highlights:”
1. Making out with my boyfriend in the classroom building, at night, way after curfew.
2. Some friends & I being told, by Dick Iverson & Bob Wager, that if we worked at Octoberfest (for tuition money), we would all be expelled.
3. Being forbidden to talk with one particular guy for 30 days(? 60 days? I forget how long), because we talked for more than 30 minutes one day. Then, when our “grounding” ended, we thought we were in love because, well, we all want what we can’t have. Once the “forbidden” feel of it wore off (see #1, above) that was that. We both moved on.
4. Having one of my closest girlfriends (who was raised in MFI) ask me to help her learn how to talk to a non-Christian about her faith (it was one of her New Year’s resolutions when she was about 25; she hadn’t ever done it before).
5. Realizing that I knew WHY I believed what I believed, because of the “trial by fire,” if you will, of secular university, whereas my PBC friends who were raised in MFI churches only knew WHAT they believed.
I’ve since gotten graduate degrees, etc. PBC was a () in my education, and really, in my life. It’s not on any resume and I never mention it to anyone in my professional life, because it’s completely irrelevant. I have a great job in the educational field, serve as a leader in a wonderful niche and believe the Lord has called me to it, to be salt and light. Anyway, like I said, I don’t regret it, but only because it’s led to other, better things, and because God uses everything!!
August 14th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
My Little Pony, great comment LOL I can’t decide which highlight I like the best.
This one is the funniest
2. Some friends & I being told, by Dick Iverson & Bob Wager, that if we worked at Octoberfest (for tuition money), we would all be expelled.
By this line of reasoning, I should stop doing drywall for homosexuals.
Do you think that Dick and Bob would make the same judgement call now like they did back then?
I didn’t go to PBC, but I did go to a bible college in Dallas where you could get written up for walking on the grass.
August 15th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Obviously not everyone is able to follow rules or stand up to pressure. These are the same that won’t make it very far in life - they will cry, complain, moan, but will be good at a career as a corner barista.
August 15th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Hi guys, I haven’t checked in for awhile. I taught at PBC for 18 years so know a bit about it. The key idea in higher education is “accreditation,” and PBC has always been clear that it is not accredited. The means that PBC is a “college” that offers “courses” that award “credits” that might accumulate into a “degree.” However, in an unaccredited environment, none of those terms really mean anything. PBC is what it is - the ministry training department of City Bible Church. If you want an education you need to go to an accredited institution.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Larry, good to hear from you. I have sat down in some your classes. But I’m still disguising my name under a pseudonym. I should have paid more attention to the fact that PBC wasnt accredited.
I wish that was clearly communicated to me earlier. When I was right out of high school and checking my options that wasn’t the case. I was pushed to that direction when that wasn’t my “calling”. Growing up I was very confused about calling. I sometimes blame myself for not questioning and deciding for myself. But I was 17, young, a bit naive and impressionable. It’s partially my decision and consequences.
At the same time I feel as though theres were miscommunications. I think I didn’t talk to the right person. I did know that PBC was unaccredited but there were somethings that werent clear. On top of it, I was constantly told that other accredited Bible schools dont teach the Bible well and if I studied other doctrines I’d be confused.
While checking out PBC, I asked about the accreditation status. I was told that some colleges in Oregon accept some of the PBC credits. That surprised me but thought if colleges take it, why not? Two different leaders have told me that PBC is not only for those into full time ministry but also for those who want to go into the “secular” world because they want to develop leaders for the secular environments as well. I was also told that there are people who get accepted into law school with a 4 year theology degree.
That is very different from saying the purpose is a ministerial training wing of PBC. If someone told me that earlier, I would have had the right info to make my choice.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Pony, great stuff. My wife has so many similar stories, and she was only there a few months. We were dating while she was in attendance so you can image the kind of scrutiny she was under. One time I sent her flowers and she got called into Beth’s office for “cultivating” a relationship (they loved that word). Another time the president of the student body saw us driving alone in a car. She got a firm warning never to do that again. All they wanted to do was control. Only a select few actually taught anything.
There’s always one isn’t there. Just so you know my wife went on to real college and studied in a very specific medical field and now specializes in a very high demand career in Los Angeles. Just because she didn’t want to be brainwashed into believing that the only career path for her was working for CBC (which they tried to do) doesn’t mean she ended up as a corner barista. What a naive thing to say.
Hey Larry, great to see you blogging. My wife has always said you were one of the good ones and we were friends with your son for a time. Spent some of my teenage years hanging around your place. Thanks for the input.
August 16th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Reformer, I hear you. I’m cracking up over the “cultivating” word because I remember their love for that word, too. The Molts were the “dorm parents” during my PBC stint. To their credit, when we ran into each other a few years ago, they apologized profusely for the way they acted “back then.”
JustaDog, I doubt it’s worth addressing your comments, but I can’t resist. If you think that there is “presure” at PBC, then clearly you need to get out more. The “pressure” and “rules” are trumped-up, not the real stuff of life. Living out life in a world in need of Jesus, not sequestered in la-la-land, is true pressure, but it’s also true joy because it’s authentic, not pretend. Just for the record, I’ve never been a barista, and the lowest paying job I’ve ever had in my life was when I worked for CBC. I have advanced degrees and have a serious career with intense pressures. God has carved out a unique professional niche for me (I’m actually the only person who does what I do in Oregon), full of (sometimes overwhelming) responsibility as well as amazing opportunities for influence in children, adults and systems. The ability to be salt and light, and influence my tiny corner of the world, makes it worth dealing with the pressures. Anyway.
Larry, I, too, am glad to hear from you. I always appreciated and respected your brain and your wit. I hope you’re enjoying life in Georgia! I hear you, that PBC is the ministry training arm of CBC/MFI. It is what it is. Unfortunately (unless things have changed), PBC doesn’t market itself that way or make that explicit. Many of the fresh-out-of-high-school youth don’t even know what “accreditation” means or know that their classes at PBC will not “count” toward a real degree somewhere else. PBC’s use of the terms “Associate” and “Bachelor” (which I still on their website) is exceedingly misleading. The implication is that those are degrees, but they really only “count” within the MFI arena, not anywhere else.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
My experience with PBC was, in the main, a positive one. I attended for four years, during the course of which I took some excellent classes, some mediocre ones, and some that were very subpar. On the whole, I would say my classroom experience was average-to-good. I was dismayed during the last couple of years, however, at how little the incoming freshmen actually engaged the ideas being presented to them in class.
I grew at PBC in a lot of ways. I was stimulated to think doctrinally for the first time in my life, and didn’t find the social rules all that difficult to follow (although admittedly, I am not usually one to push the envelope). I made a lot of great friends, my love for Jesus deepened a hundred times over, and I began to see the necessity of being rooted in the local church.
Life post-PBC has been frustrating: I was recently denied admission to a Christian graduate school on the grounds that my degree was not accredited. Another school agreed to accept me, but only on a “no-B.A.” basis. In my case, however, I know that Jesus wanted me at PBC for the four years that I attended (I tried to leave and He wouldn’t let me), so I’m not complaining.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:15 am
I went to PBC for 4 yrs and I think the period of time in which one went makes a huge difference. When I was there, PBC was seeking accredidation and degree granting status. The legalistic regime of the former dorm parents who I was under for a year changed a lot with the new dorm parents. Oh, they followed the rules very closely still, but in a totally different spirit. They thought it was genuinely funny when a tree was found in the morning draped with toilet paper and men’s underwear. I think a lot of us at that time realized that since it was a strict church community that we had to put up with certain rules that all of us may not have abided by in “real life”. It seemed the dorm parents realized that as well.
It was not about status and looks. Heck the dorms hadn’t even been remodeled when I arrived for my freshman year. There was spiritual dialouge galore and students having spontaneous prayer meetings all the time.
Were things perfect? No. They never come close when you have that many people living together. There were some things that happened that shouldn’t have. But overall, it was a great experience. Yes, I was expected to believe certain doctrines that I no longer agree with, but the tools I was equipped with for studying the Bible and the overall understanding of the Bible and it’s themes (not quite so legalistic back then) have given me a great foundation to branch out and to study things on my own and to stand on a firm foundation in my disagreeing with certain popular beliefs.
For me, PBC was a great experience. And I did find that another undergrad college that I attended for a semester accepted many of my credits. They took Old Testament survey as a “social studies/history” class for example.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:20 am
I received my 4 year degree at PBC and my credits were received to be enrolled in a masters program through another school.
While I can’t say I loved all of my experiences there (Aside from Dwight K. Schrute I’ve never seen less authority go to someone’s heads quicker than a dorm leader) I can say that if you are interested in going into full time ministry it’s a great option for you.
I received an above average education compared to my friends who went to more prestigious (read: expensive) Bible Colleges or Universities.
One thing I can say with confidence is that I certainly enjoy being able to go to the bathroom between the times of 10:30 - 11pm now
August 18th, 2008 at 8:50 am
I attended PBC for two years and I have to say that, all things considered, I’m glad I went.
I recall some bad things. I didn’t get along with my first roommate and when we finally had a shouting match I was turned in and called into Beth’s office and accused of physically and emotionally abusing her. I never touched her and we rarely talked. I also had my skirt measured. It was half an inch too short. But I also recall a lot of good things. I learned a lot about the Bible. I made some of the best friends I’ve ever had and I grew up quite a bit.
All in all I’d say that it’s a good place to be if you’re supposed to be there. If you aren’t or you don’t like the astounding plethora of rules they manage to impose upon the student body, don’t go.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Wow, looks like we do have some Portland Bible College fans. That's good to hear. I wasn't sure there was anybody who enjoyed their PBC experience. Thanks for sharing people.
I must point out though that if it was as simple as "just don't go" then we would not be having all of these people coming out messed up in the head. The reality is that not all 18/19 year old kids can grasp the concept of just don't go. There has to be more then that. PBC has to make it a point that they are not accredited, that they are a school specifically designed to help those who want to work in full-time ministry only (where degrees are not required), and that the purpose of their rules and regulations is to prepare them to be disciplined leaders, not better Christians. If that were to happen I think PBC would become a better place.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:53 am
It should also be noted that the school has changed directions in the decade or so that Frank Damazio has been in charge. They are firing a lot of the more qualified staff, and leaving the teaching to less educated elders. It’s gone from a decent Bible College to more of an internship program.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I didn’t get it then (when they first claimed accrediation and credit transfer and all that) and I still don’t get it now that people believed it would be a reality. Does this mean people who went to PBC and believed it are not able to think for themselves and actually research and find this out on their own? Use a bit of critical thinking? Or even just plain common sense?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:35 am
To be honest, PBC has never claimed accreditation and has always had a credit transfer “warning” in the catalog. I chaired the committee that researched the possibility of accreditation and was very aware of those factors - people just didn’t read carefully enough.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:59 am
For those who had a great experience at PBC, I’m very glad for them. If God is using you for his glory and good things are happening, I’d be happy to hear that. I want to see my friends and other believers doing well.
To Reformer, I 100% agree with you. PBC needs to be clear about that. I browsed through the webpage and frankly it is very misleading. While I applied to PBC, I clearly discussed in my application that I am not interested in full time ministry but I’m rather interested in a biblical foundation etc… I would have had absolutely no problem if I was told that PBC was not for it and denied admission.
Think of it this way….suppose a person wants to study civil engineering. And there’s a college well known for sciences and engineering. While checking out that college, its basically myself deciding if the college is for me and the college deciding if I can be admitted, right.
Suppose if that college offers engineering/sciences but not civil engineering, it would make no sense if they admitted me, enrolled me in classes and not communicate to me that they are not focused on civil engineering. It doesnt matter how good their other engineering or science education is or whether other students love it there. The bottomline is if they dont offer my particular program and cannot fit into my calling and career goals, it is NOT for me.
I know this is not the best way to describe it but that is essentially what PBC is doing. Yes, there are friends who graduated and doing well and I saw that God is using them for full time ministry. However not everyone is called into full-time ministry for an MFI church. Not everyone can be pastors. A person using their spiritual gifts and talents in the secular field is just as called and spiritually gifted as someone who is a bible teacher, preacher, healer in the church.
This post is not about PBC bashing or about closing that place down. All I’m saying is that PBC should be clear about their goals and it should be communicated better.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
To other PBC students, I’m glad you shared your PBC experiences. I like hearing your perspective. This is not to argue or dismiss your positive PBC experience. That doesnt mean everyone has to experience PBC (or any spiritual thing) the way you did. Since we’re discussing personal experiences here’s mine.
While I was in PBC, I turned away from Christ. However, I knew how to hide it well because I knew people would act stupid about that. When I turned away and denied Christ’s existence, I was further repelled by the hypocrisy, behavior and attitudes of others - including pastors, teachers, leaders, student leaders and others.
I was told that PBC focused on character growth rather than charisma. I thought that was BS! I saw dishonesty, snottiness, arrogance, rudeness and attitudes that were certainly the opposite of Christ. When I looked around those who I’m supposed to model myself after, I thought “HELL NO, I dont want to be like them as a mature believer.” I thought if this is what being a believer is about, I didnt want anything to do with it.
I found Christ again later in another Christian-based university. I heard another person at PBC comment about their incompetent theology classes and the alike. I had to take one mandatory class and that opened my eyes because there were discussions from believers of different denominations, non-believers and others. That made me want to know where I stand.
Later, one of the professors lecture made me think of Christ during a in an English class. We were discussing the concept of grace and love throughout literature. This professor really pushed everyone to talk in class.
Gradually, I went from apathy/disgust from Christianity to a seeker. I wonderered, what if I missed something about my understanding of Christ? I wanted truth beyond superficialities. I went into that college chapel which is very lithurgical and something PBCers would look down on. Guess what, I totally felt the presence of God and heard his voice calling me back to him. The next week, almost out of no where I ended up having a discussion about faith with a methodist. He led me back to Christ. I re-dedicated myself back to Christ. I am now a much firmer and stronger believer.
Generally, some CBC’ers like to associate religious christianity with the denominations like Baptist, methodist (and others out there). However, CBC or charismatic non-denominational churches can be just as religious and actually have the same tendencies as a traditional denomination.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
When I was 19, I took a break from the University to attend PBC for a year. I grew up in an MFI church and was wounded deeply there. But my experience at PBC was a good one. I knew it wasn’t accredited. I knew I was only going to be there for one year so I only took classes that interested me. My teachers were Larry Aspland, Lanny Hubbard, Jan Weinstein, Tim Smith, and Mark Bryan. They were great and I learned a lot about the Bible. Sure, the rules were ridiculous, but they didn’t bother me. Mostly, they were just an inconvenience. My parents were University professors, I finished my degree at the University so I’ve spent my life in an intellectual atmosphere. I think the teaching I received at PBC was very intellectual and increased my ability to study the Bible and also to discuss controversial topics related to Christianity. I spent hours discussing issues with some of the upperclassman. Obviously my experience was different from many of you. Maybe I was just oblivious to what was really going on?? I was there right when Frank was taking over. Perhaps that was a good time. I did notice a huge amount of favoritism towards MFI pastors’ kids who were there with me…that kinda bugged me. But it wasn’t in the classes as much in the chapels and other stuff.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Great point. I love how non-denominational churches look down on Baptist or Presbyterian denominations, yet places like CBC can be 10 times more religious because they take everything in the Bible as is. At least Presbyterians and Baptists understand the context of scripture and the audience of the reader at the time it was written.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Besides the concept of literal interpretation, I’ve seen spirituality measured by outward appearances and in superficial ways. In charismatic, non-denominational circles, it is very easy to appear spiritual by conforming to a set of man-made ideas, charismatic lingo and things you do. Some people judge spirituality by a combination of feelings, hype and emotions or by superficial standards rather than true discernment. I’ve met true believers with the love of Christ in all denominations from charismatic, baptist, lutheran, reformed Catholic and others.
August 25th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Contributing to this blog site again is not something I had in mind, not because I don’t appreciate its purpose, but because I thought I was safely removed from the legacy of PBC. Unfortunately, I was wandering around the web tonight, looking for some interesting news. After a few boring moments with the somewhat encouraging messages coming from the podium of the Democratic Convention, I clicked on the City Business Blog and saw “PBC” in the center of controversy in recent blogesphere. Like a fly on watermelon (or something else), here I am, again.
Larry Asplund, my good friend and colleague of 13 years; you know that I have always had strong and consistent feelings toward the development of PBC and the need for accreditation. My good friend, Ken Ross, and I labored toward this end from the time I set foot on PBC soil. John Adams knows this is true, as well as many other former PBC students. But, at the end of 13 years of mixed blessings and painful years, two of us were shown the door because of our insistence that PBC should move forward toward full accreditation and assume the place it deserved as a Christian charismatic institution dedicated to the furtherance of the Kingdom of God through well-educated and well-equipped ministers of the Gospel.
But, let us not forget the reality that the portrayal of PBC was always (during the years I served) softening the absence and/or need of accreditation and the accessibility of further educational benefits. Ken Malmin spent several chapels, appealing to the hearts of the students and staff to believe that the State of Oregon had the moral obligation of granting immunity to PBC by not requiring them to be accredited in order to offer a “degree.” The church was never shy about wielding its political might. Meanwhile, students were told that coming to PBC would not hurt their chances to pursue a standard (accredited?) educational degree experience, while stating that PBC was offering them a Christian foundation. This was absolutely taught…because that is why I was asked to come to Portland and teach the philosophy and cultural studies courses – and YOU know it.
What became a shock to me, and some of the students that have attended PBC, is that this goal of accreditation and standardization was never an honest option for Frank, Ken, and some of the other top leaders at City Bible. They were too enamored and contained by their doctrine of the church, and too caught up in the web of Triumphalism to understand the benefits and blessings of interaction with various denominational organizations and the value of intellectual deference. No, Dr. Asplund; you and I know the truth: that real education requires not only discipline, but the risk of openness. And, I suspect that you have improved your quadrant of intellectual stimulation, and honest exploration into areas of the improbable. In fact, you could probably write two books easily: one on the theology of “Pastor Gas,” and the other on the “Soteriology of Monty Python’s Search for the Holy Grail.”
Time to stop defending your old familiar comfort zones.
Regardless, I hope you are doing well – very well – and I hope Lynda is continually being strengthened and healed in Christ. I miss your jokes and your gift for sacrilegious sarcasm.
LT
August 25th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Larry Taylor!!! I’m glad to hear from you. I used to be a student of yours. Anyway, I wanted to talk to you. If you’d like please email me at almond_roca@hotmail.com
BTW…in case you’re wondering “Who the heck is Nina?” I’ll tell u thats its a pseudonym. Talk to ya soon.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Wow, Larry this is just excellent. Thank you for sharing. I never really knew you but I was apart of the Eric Knox/Dan Hammond - Urban Progress crew. It is great to see people from all former walks of CBC life sharing on here. And keep challenging that “familiar comfort zone” way of thinking. That’s how change happens.
August 26th, 2008 at 9:08 am
It’s good to hear from you, Dr. Taylor. We worked hard to make it happen, didn’t we. I think PBC would have made a wonderful, fully accredited institution of higher education. As you know, several things would have had to change: it would have been forced to separate from CBC (thus your reference to their view of the church), and some of the foundational instructors (including Ken and Glenda) would have had to stop teaching. In the end, PBC was redefined in a way that precluded it ever being an institution of higher learning. As a result, you and our good buddy Dr. Ross were fired and I moved to Georgia to teach. Although there was always the possibility that PBC might be accredited, there is now no chance of that every happening. Oh well. Be blessed, my old friend.
August 26th, 2008 at 11:11 am
On the other side PBC may not have been a bad idea. Forget beauty school or appearing on “What not to wear”– I learned how to dress, do my hair and makeup etc… Before I walked in I was just a jeans/tshirt casual girl. I wore my first pair of stiletto heels only when I was in PBC. Now I look so damn good. I’m sure my boyfriend appreciates that
Guys are not excluded either. I have never seen so many metros in one place.
August 27th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Sorry, “Nina.” I could not track you by your email address. perhaps email me directly, if you still want a reply: larrytaylor007@comcast.net
I’m not too concerned about my own identity. LT
August 31st, 2008 at 2:29 pm
How’s it going LT? Ya know I asked a pastor about you who so happens to be a former student of PBC, and surprisingly enough was formerly a friend of yours. I’m not sure of your relationship now, but I do know that this said person was quite a fan of yours at the time of his attendance of PBC. I also was a student during his time there and I was/am a fan of your teaching style and your desire to be real and open. When I asked of you and Ken, his response was simply “we had to let them go becuase they just weren’t local church guys”. I wasn’t too sure how to take that, but after reading some of the previous entries it’s more clear to me now. I actually attended a couple of lunches with you and Ken and a couple of other guys from PBC. Anyway, I hope you’re doing good and Ken and Larry Asplund too.
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:28 am
Hi Larry,
Good to hear from you. Say “Hi” to Chuck Travis, when you see him. Also, to Lynda. Hope all is well, and you are not suffering from Hurricane season. All is well in the Northwest. I spoke with Dr. Ross recently, and he and Karen seem well. I will be doing my final preparatory work in Seattle for one year as a drug and alcohol and mental health counselor/chaplain, and will then be employed with the VA ’somewhere.’ We want to stay in the NW, but have to be realistic in terms of job placement. I am at the ‘top of the heap’ in terms of getting a job, due to my combat, service connected disabilities, education, etc. Good pay, too. I might even be making as much as Ken Malmin? Wow.
Blessings, my friend.
LT
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Wow,
My favorite people are here.
Hello Dr. Taylor, Dr. Asplund and still waiting for Dr. Ross to join this blog.
We miss you and miss your wisdom so much.
Indy.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:35 am
I know of two girls that just graduated from High School here and are leaving to go to the intern program at Wendall Smiths Church. What does the intern program entail? Do they have a “Bible College” there like Portland City Church? Is their intern program and their bible college one in the same or two separate things?
I know of a lot of kids that are being talked into going there thinking that they are furthering their education but after hearing from others here it makes me sick to think of them wasting those important years right out of High School. What could I say to a young person that was thinking about going to something like this so that they might stop and take another look before jumping ahead?
Their parents are paying a lot of money for this and I wonder if they are aware that the credits they will be earning aren’t really credits at all.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:37 am
“Internships” can be very valuable as a “gap year” experience. They should not be looked at as formal education but rather a one-year post-high school experience (like traveling around in Europe).
The exception might be for a young person whose goal is to serve in ministry and/or leadership in a local church. If so, some (even informal) training like that offered in an internship program can be meaningful. However, they will need to start their formal education afterward - nothing they have done in the internship will be “transferable” to their formal education.
It’s my understanding (remember, I’ve been gone from Portland for over two years) that City Church in Seattle, which has long had an informal internship program now has an extension campus of PBC. While that adds to the academic value of the teaching portion of the internship, it still does not constitute “formal education.”
September 4th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
This is just sad. Poor kids. Been there, done that. Hey I got an idea…show them this blog. Tell them that if that is the route they want to go, then they will probably be posting some “look what the City Church did to me” story on this site in about 2 years.
September 9th, 2008 at 4:04 am
Far be it from me to align myself with City Church but I have to say that to my knowledge I’ve never heard them imply that their internship was an academic experience. I’ve had several friends go through it and it seemed more about on the job training than anything else. I believe the goal is to crank out more MFI workers. Though, I know of at least one university in the are that will accept “credits” from their internship. I don’t think they advertise it as a college experience though.
September 25th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
TRUE, but they were so close and the Frank shut it down. I guess building an Empire was more important.
September 25th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
TRUE, but they were so close and the Frank shut it down. I guess building an Empire was more important.
Good to hear from you Larry, hope you are doing well.