How the Tithe robs you of your retirement
Posted on August 27th, 2008 by Belteshazzar into the Uncategorized category"Will a man rob God?"
This quote from Malachi is often used to back up the practice of the tithe. It's a blatant guilt tactic to keep people tithing as the passage talks about blessings from God if you tithe and cursing if you don't. We've argued many times over and over again that we as Believers no longer live under OT law, so the blessings and cursing don't apply. But this myth of tithing and promised prosperity has a direct consequence upon the financial well-being of those who still practice it.
Let us assume you have a 401k plan or a similar retirement fund. (You don't? Get one!) Let us also assume you make a modest $40,000 a year, for the sake of argument, and that you're not very ambitious and your salary doesn't go up at all until retirement. Obviously, this is pretty lame, but it makes the numbers easier to work with. Let us now imagine that you take 10% of your income and faithfully deposit that sum into your 401k, from the age of 25 until you retire at 65. That $4,000 a year, through the miracle of compound interest at a modest 7%, becomes a whopping $854,438.28! (If that isn't enough to motivate you to start saving for retirement NOW, I don't know what will.) An interesting thing about compound interest, is that the sooner you start saving the bigger your earnings. If Peter started contributing 10% to his 401k at age 25 and then quit contributing at age 35, he would still earn $450,146.10. If Paul started contributing 10% to his 401k at age 35 until he was 65 he would only have $404,292.17.OK, so that's your financial lesson for the day.
So, if you were to instead put 10% of your income into tithing, how much money would you have for retirement? Well, unless the church (or God?) is going to write you a check when you turn 65, you get nothing. Zip. Bupkiss. Nada. All those promises about not being able to out-give God? Explain that to your grandfather who is living on Social Security after tithing his entire life. Who is going to pay his gas bill this winter? Never mind actually enjoying his retirement.
"But, Belteshazzar," you say, "why can't you save 10% and tithe 10% as well?" Fair question! It seems like it doesn't have to be either/or, but should it? If you were actually frugal enough to live on 80% of your modest $40k a year, good for you! But, if you had put all 20% in your 401k, you'd have a retirement savings of $1.7 million! Not only is that a lot of money, you could afford to give even more money to the church than if you had tithed it. How you ask? First off, you'd be able to "tithe" 10% of your savings to the tune of $170,000. That's $10k more than you could have given if you faithfully gave $4k a year. Plus, with the remaining funds in a 5%CD, you earn interest of $76,500 a year. 10% of that is 7,650 a year, almost twice of what you were tithing in the original way of thinking. Imagine if a church had a group of retirees who consistently gave from their rather fat retirement accounts, who were also able to enjoy their retirement? A church board could not ask for a more stable financial plan. Imagine if you had a modest size church where you had 10 retirees, including one "new" retiree per year, that's a revenue of almost $250k a year, which is a good start on a budget for a small church. The kicker is, no one in the church has to be poor to do it.
So, the next time you hear, "Give to God first" and "give until it hurts" and "sacrifice", ask yourself, "What am I giving up?" If you and your family aren't your first priority, then it's time to reexamine your priorities. If a church is encouraging or even demanding that tithing come first in your finances, then they are abusing your trust and potentially robbing you and the church of real financial prosperity. Tithing the poor in your church just keeps them and the church poor in the long run.
24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"
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August 27th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Good math. I am sympathetic to your position. However, it sounds like an anti-giving/generosity argument as much as an anti-tithing argument.
August 27th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Hm, I suppose it could come off that way, but that’s not how it was intended. For the record, none of us here at City Business are against giving to the church or to those in need; in fact, we encourage it. You’ll notice that my analysis showed that giving to the church was actually increased by investing first and giving later. My beef is with the idea that tithing is taught as the church first regardless of how that affects you and your finances. If everyone in the church is poor, who is left to take care of the poor?
And if any of my math is wrong, please let me know!
August 27th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
…and an anti-law/pro- grace argument.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
I may have told this true story previously.. but here goes again ..
In the 1970s when BT had a prophecy or something that members should give $3000 per family to the building fund… most people did it. A friend did, plus much more on occasions.
In the late 1970s maybe early 1980s he worked for the church as a teacher and got fired for some lame reason…
Anyhow.. he had trouble getting a job for a bit of time and went to the church, bro.steele? elder? bro.dick?, and asked for help from the church to make his house payment and put food on the table for his wife and kids.
They flat out turned him down. Said he should have managed his money better and not given so much to the church…
What did they call that fund the home meeting “offerings” went to? Saints Relief?? He was a home leader for many years too…
On the subject of saints relief fund… Mid 1990s I had a good friend dying of breast cancer. She had faithfully attended BT for years, padded the offereing buckets, you name it. Then she had health issues and could not leave her house easily. She had MANY relatives in the church so was still connected and considered BT her home. Then she got cancer and had no money. She needed some equipement for home health care. I phoned her “elder” and told him what she needed and how much and requested that the Saints Relief fund pay for it… amazingly, I had a check in a week from them!! I also got her “home group” to provide meals and do her laundry at times… but I pretty much always had to make calls to arrange it.
Churches will NEVER get the ministry of helping people down in their OWN body.. For some reason their blinders only “see” or “find” needs outside their own “family.” I would always question Wendell when he would go off on how God was going to bring people into the church with needs and the church was going to meet their needs and get them saved… ask him how on earth could God bring more people when the church was not yet taking care of the ones He had ALREADY brought in…. I don’t think Wendell every understood that concept…
Sorry for going off in a tangent !
August 27th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
The challenge with truly serving those in need from wherever they are is getting over ourselves. We tend to be too busy with our own lives to really care about someone else’s. Without a network of people willing to sacrifice their lives for others, it is tough for those things to happen. It’s not that people don’t care. Other people are on their list but just too far down to do anything about it. When Living Life called about her mom, then the list was shuffled for a day or two, then slid back down.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
fred flintstone said:The challenge with truly serving those in need from wherever they are is getting over ourselves. We tend to be too busy with our own lives to really care about someone elses. Without a network of people willing to sacrifice their lives for others, it is tough for those things to happen.
Until leadership gets over themselves and stops taking up all of their congregations time by expecting them to be in church “every time the doors are open” things will never change. I believe there are a lot of selfless caring people in church that would gladly sacrifice their lives for others but they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are in the will of God by sacrificing their lives for the church.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Until leadership gets over themselves and stops taking up all of their congregations time by expecting them to be in church “every time the doors are open” things will never change. I believe there are a lot of selfless caring people in church that would gladly sacrifice their lives for others but they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are in the will of God by sacrificing their lives for the church.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:05 am
I remember when we first stepped down from being laypastors, we had NO duties at CBC for the first time in ever. It felt great! We actually had time to get with friends, spend time with our own kids and have date nights together. Wow what a contrast from living life in the CBC leadership track.
These people get so in-bred, so busy with the CBC maze, they cant see the forest for the trees. They forget the true meaning of religion, visiting the widow and fatherless.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:28 am
I was talking about church in general, not just MFI churches. The following quote reminded me that it takes more than caring.
For a person to both care and be proactive in meeting the needs of others is rare. The people here actually cared, but LL’s mom fell between the cracks as each person in her group began living their own lives.
Living in community is tough. My point is that it takes more than simply caring, it takes a commitment to others that most people are not willing to make. In my family, we have 2 working adults and 3 kids each with their own schedules plus a mother who needs caring for. To put someone else’s life issues ahead of some of mine is tough, but that is what the gospel asks us to do.
I think it is a bit naive to think that if people had an extra night off a week that they would spend that caring for others, which is my point.
Understand that I am all for extra nights off. One of the staff members at the church where I worked used to track how many nights in a month his family members were at the church. It was always 15+ days. No one had any sympathy for him. He eventually quit.
August 28th, 2008 at 8:35 am
fred flintstone said:One of the staff members at the church where I worked used to track how many nights in a month his family members were at the church. It was always 15+ days. No one had any sympathy for him. He eventually quit.
My point exactly! If they had an extra 15 days a month off and were being encouraged from the pulpit to go out and be salt and light in their own extended families and neighborhoods I think you would be surprised. If your point is that most people care but are not willing to make a commitment to others then they are not being preached the true gospel. They are too busy doing the pastors will to have time for anything else. I believe if most were given a true choice, some might feel called to minister inside the walls of their local church and some would feel called to take it outside to the local community. Most pastors are so afraid of letting people think for themselves and follow the Holy Spirits leading in their lives everyone just becomes a clone and a follower of their “leaders” calling in life. Along with their “calling” they also get a wage and a staff of people to help them carry it out. Why can’t they free up some in their congregations and let them go out and do what they might be “called” to do?
August 28th, 2008 at 11:28 am
twas a good friend, not my mother :-}
August 28th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Thanks for the correction LL
August 30th, 2008 at 11:28 am
You have made a few mistakes in this blog concerning the tithing and retirement, and I don’t mean mathematical ones. If your understanding of the kingdom of heaven were as good as your understanding of the power of compound interest commendation would be in order. That you have the nerve to quote the parable of the talents, in a purely worldly interpretation, is indicative of something amiss. The Lord used worldly examples to illustrate spiritual things. You have done the opposite.
September 1st, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Care to follow up with that correction, Nick? It’s one thing to say there are mistakes, its another thing to back them on.
Go for it.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Ok, here’s why I was so angered by this one. In general it smacks of worldly wisdom rather than Godly wisdom. “That which is esteemed by man is despicable in the sight of God.” (Luke 16:15)
1. The tithe is an Old Testament custom/law that was for the priesthood only because the sons of Aaron/Levites had no inheritance of the land of promise and therefore no produce of their own. As ones who served Yahweh’s altar, they were given the tithe for their sustenance. The New Testament correlating principle is given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 9: “muzzle not the ox while he is treading…is it too much to ask that you sow material things…He who preaches the word should make his living from the word…” (paraphrased). It is worthy to note, however, that Paul himself didn’t make use of this right, but worked “with his own hands” to support himself in the ministry. This was his boast, his ‘reward.’
2. I agree with you that we are no longer under the law to tithe, though the blessings of obedience to the law (the promises) are still ours, its righteous requirements having been perfectly met by Christ. I would say the tithe is optional and when given willingly to a good ministry highly effective in receiving God’s blessing.
3. Alms are for the poor. In the New Testament, many principles and blessings apply to giving to the poor. A worthwhile Bible study in itself.
4. “give to God first” and “give until it hurts” shouldn’t be disparaged so quickly (though these kinds of statements should be checked out!) The principle of “firstfruits” is very important. In the OT God demanded the first and the best. It begins with Cain and Abel (Abel gave of the firstfruits of his flock) and is a thread that continues throughout the Bible. It is one of the indicators of one’s faith. God demanded Abraham to offer up (or at least be willing to) his first son of promise, Isaac; this obedience forever marks Abraham as the example of faith being justified by works (James). Jesus commended the widow who put in the “two mites,” saying she had put in more than all the others because she gave all that she had to live on herself.
5. I agree, however, that no one has the right to demand these things from another believer. Only God, who will always bless super-abundantly anything that we sacrifice. Jesus said to Peter concerning the cost of discipleship, “Everyone who has given up houses or lands, brothers, sisters, father or mother or children for my name’s sake shall receive a hundred fold in this age…” (Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:30)
6. As for the parable of the talents– I confess I find this one mystifying. I can’t dare to offer any complete interpretation. That it is of a spiritual rather than literal bent can be gathered from some clues. The whole thing must be about stewardship rather than financial wisdom. Its the master’s money, not the servants’. The money returns to the master eventually, with or without interest. The wicked servant is thrown into ‘outer darkness’ (Hell?) What or who is the Bank? (God the Father? The Kingdom? …) As an additional bit of information, the talent is a huge sum of money, unlike a tithe or an offering of some kind.
7. “you and your family are first priority” Worldly thinking. “He who loves father or mother…son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me…” (Matthew 10:37) “Seek first His kingdom and its righteousness and all these things shall be added to you.” (Matthew 6:33)
8. The lending of money at interest was the sin of ‘usury’ under the Law of Moses. Today that ’sin’ is an accepted way life, the foundation of the banking system, and while we are no longer under the law, it can’t be said to have much to do with the kingdom of heaven (God’s perfect way of getting things done).
9. I think your point had to do with the time of the giving, postponed to the date of maturity of the investment rather than giving piecemeal along the way. While very wise financially, it doesn’t take into account the timeliness of the need. I can’t think of a specific Bible example other than the Macedonian church situation mentioned in 1 or 2 Thess? The general principle of the Kingdom of heaven is seed, time and harvest, (Mark 4, etc.) Daily bread. “Take no thought for tomorrow…” In the words of the old spiritual: “I’m gonna give when the Spirit says give.”
I sincerely hope I haven’t pissed you all off too much. I realize I “invited” myself on this one. You all seem like reasonable brothers who are looking for workable solutions that would be a blessing to God’s people. I am a little blown away at all the anti-Charismatic church blogs out there. In no way do I want to defend any individual ministers, only the Church as a whole, as Christ ordained it to be, filled with the Spirit that “the world cannot receive.” (John 14:17) I have quoted mostly from the Gospels, because that is where the principles of the Kingdom of heaven are taught (much of it having to do with money and daily needs), hidden mostly in Jesus’ parables. They are mysteries to be sure, but it has been given to us to know them. The Father is pleased to give us the Kingdom.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:01 am
Good post. More people need to understand that stewardship goes beyond giving to God. If at the end of your life, you have nothing saved up for your family or your children, then you are disregarding a biblical principle.
2 Corinthians 12:14 states, “For the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.”
1 Timothy 5:8 states, “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
One thing to note about the servant who buried his talent is that he was still considered a bad steward even though he gave his master back 100%!
I read a story one time of a husband who gave so much money to the church his whole life. But on his death bed he had a regret and even apologized to his wife for not leaving anything for her. Of course, as a good wife, that did not matter to her, but it goes to say that our conscience even convicts us of our financial responsibility to take care of those even when we are not on this earth. Of course in this day in age, many churches provide ways for you to liquefy your assets so you can participate in their building fund. It’s a shame that they want your dying dollar also.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:20 am
Nick,
You make some good points. But you have to realize this is not my only argument or even the prime argument against tithing. I was just trying to point out that many churches and pastors who teach tithing demand that people give their 10% to God first, never mind how that affects your financial well-being. In fact, many also teach that tithing is a guarantee of financial blessing as a means of incentive for people to tithe. The whole mentality is around taking from people before they even have a chance to “multiply their talents”, and thus they are robbed of any kind of real financial security in the long run. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is no way to bless God or His people.
T&S, thanks for reminding me of that verse in 1 Timothy. I think the attitude of many tithing churches is to make sure the pastors are blessed through the giving of tithes, rather than the church community, especially the poor within the church. If you can’t take care of your own first, what good are you?
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:14 am
tithing & stewardship said: I read a story one time of a husband who gave so much money to the church his whole life. But on his death bed he had a regret and even apologized to his wife for not leaving anything for her.
Isn’t that where this whole prosperity movement started from? I remember the time years back when poverty was the mark of a committed Christian. If you weren’t poor and miserable you weren’t very spiritual. But after a generation of Pastors ending up in retirement with nothing to live on or in, (remember parsonages?) or dying and leaving their wives and children with nothing, things began to change.
Then I remember hearing that God doesn’t want you to be poor and doesn’t want His people just barely getting by. Trust God for more than just the food on the table and the clothes on your back.That He owns the cattle on a thousand hills and we were limiting God by expecting so little. That God wants to give you good things and He wants to bless you. Believe me, we had never heard anything like it and it sounded good!
Isn’t this the classic case of the pendulum swinging the other way? Hasn’t the church just gone from one extreme to the other? Being dirt poor wasn’t good. If you’ve been around long enough you know that. Pastors and Christians in general had very low expectations of the blessings of God and I think the church suffered for that.
But now the same thing is happening with the prosperity teaching. It just looks to me like we have gone from one extreme to the other. Why can’t these Pastors ever get the balance? Why do they take every truth and use it to manipulate and control their congregations instead of letting it bring the blessings and freedom it was intended to?
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 am
L v. T,
I have simply said that it’s not right to leave this world and leave nothing for your family. I have also stated that you shouldn’t have your family wanting while your church is thriving. This is not a pendulum swinging full force towards the opposite side, this is just a principle that i hope could bring it back to the center. If the pendulum is too far to the right or too far to the left, it still has to swing back the other way to a certain degree in order to get back the center.
By the way, the prosperity doctrine started from greed, not unless the example of the man on his deathbed instigates greed, i wouldn’t consider that an example of where the prosperity doctrine started from.
-Jared
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I really dislike these statements. WE CANNOT DO ANYTHING MORE TO RECEIVE GOD’S BLESSING. WE ARE ALREADY BLESSED. It’s called GRACE.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:10 pm
t&s,
I didn’t think I was disagreeing with you. You missed my point. Your story of the man on his deathbed speaks about poverty not prosperity. It just reminded me of a time in the church when all Christians were expected to be poor.
The prosperity doctrine might have ended up being about greed but I don’t think that is where it started from. I was just simply saying what I remember being taught in church at the time the shift went from poverty to prosperity.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
To Reformer: Well said! Ministers should preach and teach grace first and foremost. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy…” (Titus 3:5) and a million other scriptures.
I think what I meant, to clarify my statement, was that tithing can be something of a tool or a weapon, like giving to the poor, fervent prayer, thanksgiving, a “sacrifice” of praise, or something similar, that when sown as a seed will be eventually rewarded with a harvest, according to Jesus’ teaching, “as a man sows so shall he reap…” and Paul’s teachings “he who sows abundantly shall reap abundantly” (2 Cor. 9:6) and “it is more blessed to give than to receive.” (Acts 20:35) I added that it would be effective in receiving a blessing if done willingly, because “God loves a cheerful giver” and I should add, even better if done while mindful of the “recompense of the reward” (Hebrews 2:2, Ruth 2:12), a Godly ‘what’s in it for me’ mentality!
I believe that the principles of the Kingdom of Heaven operate as reliably as the law of gravity. “Ask and you shall receive…” , “give and it shall be given to you…” Since it’s impossible for God to lie, that’s simply how things are, maybe its part of the moral fabric of the universe, I don’t really know. I only say that I believe it to be so. It’s the same with the grace of salvation given to whoever “calls upon the name of the Lord.” It works because He set it up to be that way (and paid for us the sin-debt that stood in our way of receiving his grace). He has made the condition upon which salvation hinges so small, so easy, so effortless on our part that it can be said to be ‘’free.” The scriptures even suggest that He has to give us “grace for grace” (John 1:16)!
God’s grace brings forth in us the desire to do good works; our good works can not of themselves obtain God’s grace. Nevertheless, I believe He honors His word, and that too is part of His graciousness.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Say this today. It is hilarious.
http://www.thechurchyouknow.com/video/tithing.html