Is Palin the right choice?
Posted on September 3rd, 2008 by The Reformer into the Politics categorySince I am a pure independent voter who leans to the right economically and to the left socially, I have been in some great discussions with my family, friends, and co-workers about Sen. McCain's pick for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin. On one side I hear that she is good for the Republican party because she is a true right winger and can give the party some credibility since she is the first woman with an actual chance of holding office in the executive branch of government, but then on the other side I hear that she is a terrible choice because she hurts McCain's platform that he is the more experienced candidate.
Since I am a big Obama supporter for this election I find it hard to see past Palin's minimal political background, hardcore right wing beliefs, and what seems to be increasingly questionable personal issues. But maybe some of our readers out there can help me see the light.
Tell me, is Palin the right choice for the Republicans? Why or why not?
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I for one am totally for this woman. I think she is exactly what the Republican party needs. THe media is against her only because she is a woman!
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:33 pm
She gave a great speech tonight. I think we will know in about 3 weeks whether she was a good choice or not.
What has been disappointing to me is that the RNC has used so many partisan attacks. While I think, and the Senate votes prove, that Obama is not truly post-partisan, the DNC worked to sound post-partisan. They expressed long held liberal democratic ideas and presented them as if they were new and inclusive. The RNC is not even trying to sound inclusive. They are spending too much time attacking the dems and not sharing how they are going to be different than Bush.
The speech and her pick show me that McCain is working hard to rally the social conservative base. If that is how they decide to roll, then I think they lose. Bush won by bringing out a huge vote in 2004. I am not sure there is any way the GOP can bring out a bigger vote than Obama will. If McCain wanted to show that he was a maverick he should have picked Ridge or Lieberman, but he could not buck the social right on the abortion issue.
Well, I guess I am saying that she was not the right pick. Looks like she will make the campaign that much more interesting.
On another note, I always think the whole “talking points” thing is overplayed…until today. Earlier today, I heard 2 hours of the GOP saying the exact same thing. They were almost universally frustrated with the push back that they received. I watched as much as I could of the DNC and they were never flustered by the questioning. The convention and the coverage of it has been weird from missing a day with the storm to all of the defeated GOP candidates speaking at the convention. Tomorrow will continue the craziness because McCain’s speech will not be as good as Palin’s speech. However, he will have to talk about issues because there is no way they could spend another entire night bashing Obama.
My vote is Obama’s to lose. Right now, for me, the GOP is stumbling all over itself to have people like me not vote for them.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
what cracked me up is how CNN and Fox News had to strain extra hard to find at least one black, latino or asian person in the crowd. boy ole boy the GOP is really white! you sure the RNC is being held in Minnesota? sure looks like Scotland to me or a CBC Intercessors Conference, I’m just sayin’…
September 4th, 2008 at 4:57 am
Imagine how hard the GOP had to look to find a black or Asian person to bring to the Convention. I’m sure it wasn’t easy.
And Sarah’s speech was fine. But she’s had a few days to work on it. I’m much more curious how she does in an interview setting, when she actually gets asked hard questions.
September 4th, 2008 at 5:45 am
Cat said:
I’m sure they had to pay them. I would sit at a GOP convention if they promise to pay my September mortgage.
September 4th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Palin spoke well last night, but don’t you think the GOP is going over board on how powerful her speech was simply because she is probably the only compelling speaker they have. Lieberman sucked and so did Thompson and we all know how charismatic McCain is, so if you’re an articulate charismatic and fiery speaker such as Palin at a GOP convention, then you end looking like TD Jakes speaking at an MFI Conference.
Barack had to follow up both Clinton’s and Biden and yet still held his own!
September 4th, 2008 at 6:16 am
Without a doubt. Even Huckabee, who I usually think is pretty good in these types of speeches, was horrible. But because she is all they have, they have to go overboard in supporting her. It’s there only choice.
And check out this speech by Obama, which he made off the cuff and without a teleprompter in Milwaukee Wisconsin. The man is simply inspiring.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=11222
September 4th, 2008 at 6:43 am
Palin was chosen because McCain likes the fact that she’s an outsider/maverick/reformer who can also fire up the Republican base on social issues. I thought it was a rather savvy choice, but I don’t think it will matter much in the long run because neither Palin nor Biden are going to help carry any swing states, this will ultimately be a test of personalities between the two presidential candidates.
September 4th, 2008 at 6:54 am
Yes. The RNC is so white it is clear. The look and feel of the conference is very different than the DNC. This morning my said, “There are some scary things about the republican party that I did not really know before.” I have always watched the DNC but never the RNC. It is something special. Negrodamus’ point about the quality of speakers may have been why.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Please don’t quote the maverick reformer meme. Unless “maverick reformer” somehow translates into “shameless liar”. I’m haven’t checked my Fascist to English dictionary yet this morning so the RNC’s Ministry of Truth may have gotten to that already.
From being for the Bridge to nowhere before she was against it, to leaving her small town of 6 or 7 thousand people 20 million in debt, to running the indicted Ted Stevens 527 group, to actually being on McCains own egregious pork list, this…..-person….. is nothing more than George W. Bush in drag with a speech coach.
Cynical does often win out over the future. If you are happy with things as they are go ahead and vote for her. But I’m hoping that this time we as a people will really have had enough of self righteous “christians” who make our country and our Saviour small and mean.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Settle down, my little pony. I was just answering a question, not trying to sway your vote. Both sides can get vehement about the opposing candidates and their records, so let’s keep it civil. One could easily accuse you of promoting the meme of “4 more years of the same”. The question was, “Why is Palin the right choice for the ticket?” not “Why do you have Republicans?” Easy does it.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Sorry, I meant to type, “Why do you hate Republicans?” not “Why do you have Republicans?”
I still haven’t figured out how to edit my comments on here.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:37 am
My issue was that you presented her Maverick, reformer, credentials as “fact” without qualification. Sorry just I just couldn’t let that slip by.
But I take your point about the original question so I’ll try to address that.
She was absolutely the proper choice for McCain. He has been rapidly flushing whatever honor he earned with his unquestionably heroic service of nearly 40 years ago down Karl Rove’s toilet.
The only chance he has left is to fire up his base. In this he has stayed remarkably close to his recent form.
He is pushing all in with those he once derided as agents of intolerance and frankly it might work. I can only hope and work to try and make sure it doesnt. Which brings me back to my perhaps overagressive attempt to slap down the Maverick reformer meme.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:54 am
I think that you are overstating some of your points Pony. But the above quote is definitely true. Over the past 2 years, I think that McCain has been slowly changing some of his positions to try to get elected. It is a mistake. I hate the 4 more years of Bush talk, but if he gets elected by courting the social conservatives, I think the 4 more years talk will be more accurate than the maverick talk.
Again, if I voted today I would vote for Obama, so this is not a right wing defense of McCain/Palin.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Media against her…the media loves her. She is the only member of the republican party with any appeal to the general public. Her speech last night was really good. If she actually had some substance to her and just wasn't the re-incarnation of Bush, I might actually consider voting for her. Hell, the republicans should put her at the top of the ticket and make McCain the VP.
Exactly Fred. It's sad that the republicans have decided to make this all about stopping Obama rather then changing from Bush. They are preaching fear over help. Doom and gloom over change. I am so tired of hearing the same old stuff about how if democrats are in office we will all be broke from high taxes and lose our countries moral fiber. Well we had eight years of republicans and I don't think we are all rich and that the moral fiber of this country has improved much. McCain is no maverick. He's represents exactly what we don't need in America right now.
Man I agree 100%. The RNC is a see of white people. I don't know if it's because there are just no minority republicans left in America because of what George Bush has done, or if they are just scared to come out of the closet and admit they are part of a party that has shown little to no concern for minority issues (side note: I found it hilarious how much McCain made it a point to stand up for the people of Louisiana. He did everything he could to distance himself from the Bush Administrations debacle during Katrina - so much so that it almost seemed fake).
Couldn't agree more.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:12 am
I’m surprised that no one here thinks (or at least has expressed that they think), that McCain would have chosen any conservative woman as his VP. From what I can tell, a vagina was the main requirement for his VP. It seems like a blatant grab for any woman who is pissed that Hillary isn’t their nominee which frankly, is an insult. The following article by Leonard Pitts Jr. in The Oregonian sums up my feelings on it:
September 4th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Woops…it didn’t work. Here is the link:
http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/leonard-pitts/story/670090.html
It’s definitely worth reading.
September 4th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
You know what I find funny, the argument, by some who like Obama, that now that Sarah Palin is the V.P. choice the issue of experience goes out the window. How can a governor of a state with two years of experience not be more experienced or at least as experienced then a senator who hardly did anything?
September 4th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Sarah Palin last night criticized Obama’s experience as a community organizer, and then praised her own experience as a Governor.
To which one smart commenter noted:
September 4th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Cat,
Are you comparing Obama to Jesus?
September 4th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Nope, just sayin. I would be careful about deriding community organizers.
September 4th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
If we talk about the Savior of the world, I will be careful talking about Him, because I have a proper fear of Him. However, when we are talking about someone with hardly any experience whatsoever being the leader of the free world, I won’t be careful. Because besides being a community organizer and a great orator, he has no other qualifications to lead this great country.
September 4th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
And we know how that all worked out, right?
September 4th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
The only thind I can think of is “hot librarian.” Oh, and that she looks like Tina Fey from SNL.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Touche… touche…
September 4th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Not true. But whatever. You clearly have your mind made up.
And the reason Palin takes experience off the table for McCain, is that while she has some (2 years as Governor). It’s not a lot. And it certainly isn’t anymore experience than Obama. So McCain can’t in one breath claim how important experience is, and then in the second breath say Sarah Palin is prepared to step in as President immediately.
If experience is important, then find someone with a lot of experience to be your VP. If not, then nominate Sarah Palin, who is charasmatic and attractive. Much like our future President Obama.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
” Much like our future President Obama.”
Man I pray I never hear those words spoken from anyone of importance.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Man, I hate to break it to you. But it’s gonna happen. If you just look at this from a historical perspective: You have a two term President with an approval rating in the low 30’s, in an unpopular war, with an economy in recession, and historically the opposing party always wins. No matter who it is.
McCain’s fighting an uphill battle, and he knows it. He’s desperate so he reached out to Palin, hoping to shake up the race. We’ll see.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
What precisely is it about McCain that you find so appealing?
September 4th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
To me it really has nothing to do with appealing. I don’t go for the “obvious” choice, I vote my morals, my conscience and for the person who I think has the best choice to give me a good life in a free country. I want to be able to live in a free country where my thoughts on something aren’t construed as a “hate-crime”. And I want to be able to live in a country where I can voice my opinion and not get jailed for it. I fear that we are slowly moving in that direction and I feel (my opinion, not fact) that McCain slows the move somewhat.
But then again, maybe that’s what this country needs. Maybe we as Christians (I use that term loosely) need to be persecuted. Because if the church in America faced persecution, it would look nothing like the current church and it would look more like its founder. So maybe I should vote for Obama?!?
September 4th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Good read JT. I specifically like this quote:
I have heard rumors that McCain’s real choice was Lieberman or Romney but that Carl Rove and the republican heads forced him into choosing a woman simply for the facts mentioned. Whatever the reason it has been a good choice to get them the attention they needed, but seems like a bad choice because she contradicts so much of what McCain has stood for.
Ok, forget about the Gov. vs. Sen. battle. How about their life history. Obama went to Harvard and graduated at the top of his class. He was a lawyer and a law professor. He worked in the public sector in the heart of one of the biggest cities in America. He is well traveled, well cultured, and brings an amazing background of intelligence and life experience to the table. Palin….she was a beauty queen, a sports news anchor, and a mayor of her home town of 6,000 people. From what I heard, she didn’t even have a passport to leave this country until a couple years ago. McCain is 72 years old. This type of woman is literally a heartbeat away from running our country. That’s not scary to you?
September 4th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
FormerPBCPrez said:
May I ask, who do you think is persecuting, or is going to persecute, Christians in this country? I can’t tell from what you said *who* you think will be doing that?
September 4th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Yeah, like voting your morals for George Bush, right? Because he has really represented the Christian right well over the last 8 years. Wait, on second thought…I’m pretty sure God’s not to happy about the thousands of people in the Middle East who have been killed as a result of a meaningless war. Maybe I’m alone on this, but spending 10 billion dollars a month of American taxpayer and borrowed Chinese dollars, just so I can get higher gas prices doesn’t appeal to me very much. Unless McCain shows that he is against this war, he will never get my vote.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
First, can we leave Rove out of this? He doesn’t work for McCain. Maybe Rovian tactics would fit, but let’s leave Carl himself out of it. If the Dems could win an election, folks would be hating their experts. I mean sheesh. How did John Kerry lose? He was up 17 points at the end of the summer. 4 years later, I am shocked that he lost. Al Gore. He ran away from Cllinton, a fairly successful president. How smart was that? Not very. I am not a fan of the swift boating and lying ads, but both sides do it. One side happens to be better at it than the other.
Again, I plan on voting for Obama. I am making a pragmatic point as I see it.
I am watching the RNC right now. Is Palin now on the top of the ticket? Because, no one has actually talked about McCain all week. I find it funny.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
So where does leaving you wife and children and applying for a new marriage liscence before you are actually divorced fit into you morals framework?
No, under republican rule your prejudices wont be hate crimes, but you can make the terrorist watch list with no recourse or justification. You can be wiretapped, tracked and watched for no reason other than someone thinks you are suspiscious.
I find that you equate voting for Obama with the persecution of the Church to be simply staggering in it’s ignorance. Get your money back, PBC has failed you utterly.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
You sure about this? Last I heard McCain had finally hired the Rove camp because he realized the writing was on the wall that he was going to lose. Why do you think his campaign has gotten so nasty, attacking Obama every chance they get. That’s Mr. Rove himself.
And so true about Palin. Pretty sure she is going to be on the top of the ticket come November. Maybe they will spike McCain’s fiber pills so he’ll croak early.
This just shows that elections are major popularity contests, and this year screw policies or what’s good for America, it’s all about race and gender.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I believe that the “church” has given up its place as forerunners in this nation and will probably need to be radically adjusted (persecuted) if we are to look anything like a “pure & spotless bride.” I believe that persecution is coming and my comments above were saying that Obama would usher that “era” in faster than McCain.
If you are going to talk about morals how can you compare someone who fought for the freedom of a people that were in bondage to someone who believes it is ok to murder innocent babies? I don’t like the financial situation that the country is in right now. I don’t see how you can be a Republican and like it, however if we vote for Obama he will tax us like nobody’s business.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
My litle poni, funy you mention educasion, cuz it looks like you re the one who needs a refnd!
September 4th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
My little pony,
Who are you referring to in your opening sentence? It doesn’t make any sense? And I for one am all for racial profiling, if it protects me. And if you would have read the entire post without flying off the handle you would have read that I said I believe that as a nation, Christians, are headed for persecution whomever you vote for. I just believe that with Obama as president we’ll get there faster.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Basing your arguments on falsehoods really doesn’t add any weight to your side.
I used to be a republican before they came out for torture. Your ignorance is still staggering. By the by, ignorance doen not necessarily equate with education. Sometimes it is willful.
I didn’t do so well in typing class, freely admitted.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
I for one believe torture is ok, but whatever….please pony tell me what are the falsehoods in my statement?
And by the way you’re the one who equated ignorance with education just reminding you so you don’t forget. I can quote you if you’d like…?
September 4th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
They hired some of the old Rove folks but not Rove which is all I’m sayin. Last night everybody was talking about who possibly wrote what speeches. So what? Obama doesn’t write his own speeches. In fact during the primary campaign, he was found guilty of pulling entire sections from John Edwards’ 2004 campaign speeches. Well, they had the same speech writer.
Both McCain and Obama are simply politicians. Both have/had potential to be true change agents, but they can’t because you can’t raise money in a presidential election telling the truth. If you don’t promise the impossible then people will vote for someone who will.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
formerprez,
I had wanted to apologized for the decidedly strident tone I had taken with you. I don’t know much of anything about you so commenting on the type of person you are really is kind of silly of me.
Then you had to go and type “I for one believe torture is ok”. If this is true, and not snark meant for my easily gettable goat, then frankly son you are evil.
Please tell me you were kidding.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
wow, i really cannot type. apologize for apologized.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Yeah, I don’t see what is Christ-like about supporting torture. That is some serious sin.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
So did anyone else hear McCain speak tonight????? WOW, he was really bad.
Now I definitely see why he chose Palin. As one GOP analyst said on CNN tonight…he could use a few pointers from her on how to read a teleprompter and connect with an audience. She is the party’s savior. Without Palin the republicans are dead in the water.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
I just got an email from MoveOn.org commenting on Palin’s speech. Of course, it was full of commentary on her extremely right views (a Republican from Alaska… surprise??), but I think alongside the accusations of political extortion, ties to big oil companies, and banning of library books, I think it is her complete misunderstanding of the war that really does it for me. She claimed that the Iraq war is “God’s task”… seriously… what the F does that mean? The war is simply more U.S. imperialist military action (terrorism) that is completely unjustifiable.
If McCain wins then this country is going to continue its imperialist agenda and perpetuate the condition represented by the subconscious belief by many Americans that the U.S. owns the world. Obama is definitely no Messiah, but he can at least get us out of the middle east, whereas with McCain… its going to be nuclear holocaust.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Seriously. Calm down the rhetoric. You’ve been drinking a bit too much of the Kool Aid there.
The McCain campaign is reminding me more and more of the 1996 Dole campaign. He is running as someone other than who he has been for the past 26 years. It is hard to change who you are and still run as a man of conviction. It seems that his conviction is to try to win. If he is to win, he will find out, like Bush discovered, once you rely on the social conservatives you are forever indebted to them. It’s like the mob.
The entire convention pushed me towards Obama.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:33 am
What bothers me is the shouting from both sides: rumors, gossip, mud-slinging, factoids, counter-attacks, party rhetoric, predictions of doom if X is elected, predictions of utopia if Y is elected, he/she has no experience, you’re wrong and I’m right, change, change, more of the same, different change, shake things up, make a difference, sound bite, satire, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, what a great speech, what a terrible speech, pro-choice, pro-life, protests, arrests, free speech, speech interrupters, integrity, scandals, my kids are cuter than your kids, serve your country, vote for me, yadda yadda yadda.
Do you guys think you’re saying anything here that hasn’t already been said on the internet? When the Reformer started this topic, I cringed because I had a hunch it would degenerate into a screaming match. Settle down, everyone, because you’re unlikely to change anyone’s mind here.
If you really are undecided, listen to each candidate carefully and vote with your conscience. I don’t think there’s anything left to be said this election year. I know I will watch the debates, but I really don’t expect either of them to say anything new or different. Do you?
September 5th, 2008 at 7:40 am
This is the torture I was referring to: Is. 53:5 and Matt. 27:26. And Cat, since you brought it up, how is torture (classified as a sin by you) not supposed to be allowed, but murder of innocent children is ok?
September 5th, 2008 at 8:34 am
To the original question “Is Palin the right choice?” the seeming answer is yes:
“Palin Power: Fresh Face Now More Popular Than Obama, McCain“
September 5th, 2008 at 8:44 am
I get that some people don’t like to talk politics, and that’s fine. But others do…in fact every morning at work about 5 of us guys get together in the break room and discuss the latest events. It’s fun stuff. Some are republicans some are democrats. Of course rhetoric is tossed around, but it’s been that way for the last 20 years. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. I’m just trying to understand where people are coming from, because I can’t get my mind around the fact that we have had the worst president in American history for the last 8 years (who I voted for by the way and am completely disgusted by), our country is in complete peril, yet people won’t even consider the idea of voting for a democrat. Why? Am I missing something? I have to believe that it comes down to race. If Obama was a white man he would probably be leading McCain by 20%.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:32 am
OK, at the risk of being dragged into an intelligent argument, I’ll humor you, Reformer!
This is the heart of American democracy. Not everyone believes exactly like you do. I think your question implies several things. First, it assumes that Republicans are completely to blame for our present woes. Bush may have the lowest approval rating in history, but Congress’ approval rating is even lower, one run by Democrats. Congress has had 30 years to fix the gas crisis, is responsible for the lack of regulation in the mortgage industry, has failed to fix Social Security, has failed to reform health care, and keeps promising to fix our broken tax code. Guess what? They still haven’t done it and it seems the Dems just want to point the finger at an unpopular president. Why didn’t they do it when Clinton was in office? I’ve seen commentators wax philosophical on this very point, and despite all the lack of positive change we are begging for, people still vote with their party and keep swallowing the promises hook line and sinker. It’s unfair to accuse Republicans of this without the Democrats looking in the mirror.
That’s simply outrageous and confused racism at its finest. Don’t you remember someone by the name of Geraldine Ferraro, who made a similar comment? Oh, wait, that’s right, she claimed he got where is because he’s black. I think most of America agrees even though everyone is just afraid to admit it. Conversely, if being white were so much help, why is Joe Biden the VP candidate and not on top of the ticket? It would seem that he is immensely more experienced and qualified, yet Obama crushed him in the primaries. People want something different so badly that they are eager to jump on a candidate who represents change in a physical way (being black or a woman). The talking points between between Obama, Clinton, and Biden were nit-picking at most. It came down to personality - who was best at preaching the party line and rallying support for the cause. Obama is a man who inspires, on multiple levels, including that of race. Not that the Republicans are any less guilty, McCain’s choice was unorthdox in some ways, but predictable in the sense that Palin was picked to rally core conservatives to the party.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Belteshazzar,
I don’t believe I’m going to say this, but well spoken. I actually agree with you for once. Hey things are looking up!
September 5th, 2008 at 9:44 am
“I know I will watch the debates, but I really don’t expect either of them to say anything new or different. Do you?”
Well, I’m not so sure about that. The entire tenor of the GOP campaigned has changed since they announced Palin. Now, I don’t think anything will be said that will change my mind, but there will be things worth discussing.
By the way, does anyone else think that the McCain camp has changed course in the past 7 days? I tend to think of myself as right of center, but after listening to all of the speeches and pundits, I may have to begin thinking of myself as left of center. All of the people who I usually think of as reasonable conservatives have gone Keith Olberman on me. I can’t listen to them at all now either. At least when I listen to Olberman, I realize that I am not going to agree with 90% of how is going to say what he is going to say.
“predictions of utopia if Y is elected,”
This is why I am leery about Obama. He has great ideas, but I don’t think they are very realistic. All of the fact check organizations say that his tax plan won’t cover the cost of all the shiny new programs. My in-laws work in a socialized country in Western Europe. As teachers they are in the highest tax bracket and pay over 50% taxes and $9/gallon for gas. That is how you pay for good roads and a great social net: high taxes for all. My father-in-law described their country’s health care as middle of the road. They still have deductibles and the like. He said there are countries with horrible universal health care in Europe, England is one that he mentioned by name. When we talked this summer, he thinks that the US govt. is too wasteful to do social programs well. He is a definite liberal. At 65, I doubt he has ever voted for a Rep for president.
“if Obama was a white man he would probably be leading McCain by 20%.”
If Obama was a white man, he would be a more interesting John Kerry. If Obama was white, Hillary would be the democratic candidate.
Arianna Huffington said it best last night on Larry King, “The people who are not voting for Obama because of race were probably not voting for the democrats anyway.” Not an exact quote mind you.
Obama’s color is a plus for me.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Exactly. We have had Dem presidents and GOP presidents. Dem congress and GOP congress. Both have had control of both the white house and the congress. The Dems for only 2 years though. Nothing has changed. In my mind, it the not the fault of the parties. It is the fault of the American people. We vote for our own individual benefit and not the benefit of the entire nation.
The energy debate is a great example. Why haven’t we done anything since the oil embargo days of the 70’s? Because it will take 5-20 years to see fruit from a serious federal investment in today. So, a president could get 2 terms in office and spend billions of dollars on energy and maybe get no credit for the effort. In fact, the next president could get the credit when the technology becomes available. The pres who gets/takes credit may not have had anything to do with any of it. Who wants to do that? Someone who cares about the country more than their future as a politician. If you think I am sounding like McCain, please see my posts above. His words over the last few years don’t match his actions.
All I am saying is that we keep voting for people who promise us personal gain without considering the reality of what is going on in the world, in another part of the country or even in our neighbors home. The country can never win like that.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Guess I need to leave the blog and go find a job now. He he he
September 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
If that is what you were referring to then I will of course resume my apology for going overboard.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Let me answer your question with a question. Are you saying torture isn’t sin?
September 5th, 2008 at 10:51 am
No I’m not saying that. I was just classifying it. So now that we cleared that up, will you answer the question for me?
September 5th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Now let me answer your question with two more questions?
How many innocent children were killed in Iraq under George W. Bush? And how many abortions did George W. Bush prevent during his presidency?
September 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
You know, this is one of those kinds of arguments that I’m sick to death of. Both sides are assured of their moral superiority while condemning that of the other. It’s fine to choose sides, but if your only arguments are how bad the other person is, you aren’t saying anything good. This is why Americans are tired of politicians.
What’s next, a “yo’ mama” contest?
September 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I've never said they are to 100% blame, but no one can deny that they did not live up to the promises of 2000 and 2004. I was a registered republican and voted for Bush, until 2006 when I realized what a shame and off-center direction they have become since 2000. I mean, aren't republican's suppose to be all about small government, less taxes, and moral values? How come we have the biggest government in history and the worst morals I've ever seen? I mean hell, at least the democrats are cheating on their wives with women and not with children and men in public restrooms.
And for the record I am not a fan of dems either. (They have only run Congress for 2 years by the way). That's why I am now a registered independent, cause both parties are a complete mess. However, for this election alone, if I look at McCain/Palin I see the old George Bush politics and there is no way in hell I can vote for anything even remotely related to him. He's a liar and a cheat and he has duped all the sucker christians (myself included) into thinking that he was going to be good for America. What a crock! He has done absolutely nothing for the religious right besides raise their gas prices and increase their unemployment. He has run this country into the ground and I just can't see how anyone can deny that.
Obama beat out Biden and Clinton in his own party. Republican's weren't voting. It's been my experience that democrats aren't as narrow minded or prejudicial as republicans. Most dems live on the coasts and are more educated and open to new things. I get that its PC to claim race is not a factor in this election, and being a black man myself I'm admittedly more suspicious then most, but that being said, there's millions in middle America taking Obama's race into consideration. And even some dems are guilty, why else would people who voted for Hillary in the primaries, cross over and vote for McCain in the general election. Their policies are completely different, yet people are doing that. That tells me, race is a factor. I recently heard a clip on MPR where some lady from Wisconsin said that she just doesn't see how a black man can relate well enough with a majority of this country. You can look the other way if you want, but it's out there. And with a president as bad as George Bush I can't figure out why more people (like me) aren't running to the other side, unless again, race is a factor. That's all I'm saying.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
September 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Fair enough. I’m not very good at arguing politically online. I can do it okay in person (unless I’m drinking, then I start yelling). But online, I don’t have the patience to write thoughtful arguments. And I’ll bow out for now.
September 5th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
A little news clip I read this afternoon:
This guy is great.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
I saw that clip earlier, too, Reformer, and agree with you. He IS great. It’s so refreshing to want to vote FOR a presidential candidate instead of just AGAINST one! I hope Obama is sincere in saying he’s “all about us” but even a novice politician should know enough to at least PRETEND to care about the majority of the American people. I don’t see McCain & Palin even pretending to care.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
OK, I didn’t mean to “quote” my entire post, just catalyst’s comment. Sorry!!!!!
September 5th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Somewhere in all this, I think Reformer said that Bush is the worst president in the history of the country.
I will agree that he stinks, (and I voted for him also) but there have been far worse. Read a bit of history. My personal choice would be Herbert Hoover for the Republicans, and Lyndon Johnson for the Democrats. Nixon would surely come before him also.
Here is how I see Lyndon Johnson. I think it VERY likely he was behind the assasination of JFK. He was a hardball power broker of a senator from Texas. He and JFK despised one another. Kennedy was shot in Dallas, Texas. Guess who became President? Let’s move on to the Vietnam war. 58,000 Americans KIA. 10X the number we have lost in Iraq.
He got us started in Vietnam by a bald faced lie about an attack on our navy in the gulf of Tonkin. He was a hard core boozer who liked to run down deer and antelope in a Lincoln convertible in the fields around his Texas ranch. At the peak the US had over 500,00 troops in Vietnam. The damage we did to that country was enormous. They still have problems with deformed children being born as a result of our use of Agent Orange.
I could write some about Herbert Hoover, but let me just say,”Great Depression”. Try 30% unemployment on for size.
We are in an economic boom by comparison.
OK, rant button switched off.
September 6th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Totally off-topic, somehow I just now learned that Donald Miller did the benediction to close one of the evenings of the DNC!!! He also did an interview with Christianity Today, that same day. Check it out: http://www.donaldmillerwords.com/. Awesome!
September 7th, 2008 at 6:34 am
What about the morality or immorality of taxing? I would posit that taxing is essentially stealing, and I want to elect leaders who will take less, not more. Wealth redistribution through coercive, government means is immoral.
The Democrats lost me as a voter when they taxed and spent on social programs for 40 years (1960s-90s). The Republicans didn’t do any better thereafter because the increased the size of the federal government.
The choice of Palin excites me because I feel that of the four people on major tickets (Obama/Biden, McCain/Palin), she’s the only fiscal conservative. I don’t anticipate Obama and Biden respecting my rights to my money, and McCain is always a question mark.
I’ll hold my nose when I vote for McCain, but I’ll really be voting for Sarah Palin.
September 7th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Actually Palin was on McCain’s own heinous pork list…3 times. She is about as much of a fiscal conservative as Bush.
September 8th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I feel much the same way…a reluctant vote for McCain simply because the alternative is much worse.
September 8th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Yes LBJ was a very bad president…but he did something that is overlooked by many. He helped push through the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which is one of the greatest single pieces of legislation for women and minorities in America. In the last eight years, has Bush done anything like this? I don’t think so. And Nixon was one of the most intelligent men we have every had in the white house. He came from nothing…no daddy as the former big boss to help him go to Yale, buy a baseball team, and win the white house. Yes he was sleazy, but that doesn’t make a person a bad president. A bad president is an idiot who uses the white house for personal gain…a la Bush. All he cares about is getting rich, hanging on his ranch, and helping big oil.
September 8th, 2008 at 11:45 am
By doing this you are buying into their game hook, line and sinker. McCain chose Palin to mobilize the religious right just like they did with George Bush. And how did that work out? Bush did nothing for christians. He was a fraud. Now they are doing the same thing, and again christians are buying into it. I know this is going to piss a lot of people off…but it's scary how easy it is to manipulate christians into voting for them. All they have to say is that they believe in God and are pro-life and they’re all on board. Don't the other issues matter to you people? Like how a candidates policies will affect the poor and needy…those that Jesus cared about.
About taxes: take a closer look at both candidates economic plans, rather then just listening to the media. Obama’s has no tax increases for people making under $200K per year. I don’t know a lot of people making that kinda cash. On the other hand, McCain wants to give up to a 25% take cut to those making over $2 million a year. Are you kidding me? Do people that rich really need a tax cut?
September 8th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
We are all screwed no matter who get’s in. I guess we could talk about who might screw us less. Let’s not get too excited about any one canidate or issue. The scripture tells us that cursed is the man who puts his trust in man. Hype, hype hype. Don’t believe the hype!
September 8th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Hey I thought I would share this funny tid bit about Palin’s future son-in-law. This woman’s story just keeps getting worse:
Glad to see those christian values in the family.
September 9th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Jeremiah,
I agree, we are not to put our trust in man. I also agree that no one gets as far as running for president without some level of corruption. However, I do think that this presidential election is important for our country. After years of indoctrination that all Christians are republicans and all republicans are Christians (neither of which is true!), and after going through a major tranformation in my political views, I cannot help but speak out about these issues. You are right, that we shouldn’t get too sucked into it, though!!!
Thanks for posting that, Reformer. The insanity continues. Simultaneously entertaining and maddening, isn’t it?
September 9th, 2008 at 9:09 am
JJ, does this mean that if I run for political office you won't vote for me?
Oh I completely agree. I just can't get over the hypocrisy of it all. If this was Obama and Biden with all these family issues the republicans would be having a field day in the media. But since it's happening to them this time, they are all defensive, saying that it's a private matter and the media should keep out. So funny to watch the spin doctors work.
September 9th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
About the civil rights act of 1964, Johnson signed it into law when it got to his desk. It was originally written by Dwight Eisenhower as the civil rights act of 1957. It was Ike who sent the 101st Airborne into Little Rock to enforce school integration in 1957. You can check this at www.eisenhower.archives.gov
I’ll stick with my choice of Johnson as the worst prez, at least in my lifetime.
I kind of agree with you about Nixon. He was a brilliant politician, but too twisted for my taste.
September 10th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Another couple of good reads:
An Astonishingly Arrogant V.P. Selection
Investigators Are Looking at Governor About Firing
September 10th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpBXYcgXV8M
Gotta love it…I especially like how Mike Gravel (not a republican by any stretch) slams the smear about the firing…
And Obama whines about smears?
September 10th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
It is all sickining.
Republicans good and Democrats bad or Democrats good and Republicans bad. Pick your side and slam your opponent by repeating the talking heads that are on your side.
What a joke. I can’t wait for this whole circus to be over with for another 3 1/2 years.
BTW Reformer, you said
JJ, does this mean that if I run for political office you won’t vote for me?
Of course I wouldn’t vote for you, I would write in Jesus.
This all reminds me of this part in Screwtape Letters where Screwtape is telling Wormwood to distract his patient from universal eternal issues by focusing on the stream of immediate sense experiences and calling the stream ‘real life’.
September 11th, 2008 at 6:22 am
Somehow, I think Jeremiah might have lost a close election to be class president or something in highschool…he sounds a little bitter
.
September 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
So are you saying you support a guy that is pro-choice, anti-war, pro-environment, pro-immigration, pro-tax, and for universal healthcare? How Mike Stands on the Issues. Cause if you like Palin I would imagine Gravel would be the last guy on your list to promote.
Pretty sure he's just upset that he got no support from the dems to be the presidential candidate.
September 11th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Speaking of YouTube…Cat pointed this out to me on facebook. Looks like Jason Bourne can do more then just fight with his hands…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxkrm9uEJk
September 11th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
I think you missed the whole point. I love how some Sarah haters tried to smear her, and they thought they had a guy on their side….but oops, he supports Sarah.
Good “talking head” theatre.
Uh….no. I’m saying he came to the support of someone who disagrees with him because he can recognize unfounded smears when he sees them.
I never said I support Obama or McCain, but I am trying to point out how it is all smoke and mirrors - for both sides bringing up issues that don’t matter. I have no faith that either politician will help the poor, stop the murder of babies, end the war, or keep our country safe or help with the cause dejour. My hope lies in Christ, not Obama or McCain.
Why are we so willing to f