Sarah Palin is the female Bill Clinton

Not since, Bill Cinton have I seen a politician so adept at lying.

Let me count a few of the ways:

- She lied about the Bridge to Nowhere. She actually supported it.

- She lied about getting her ex-brother in law fired. She did it out of revenge for her sister. (Which is almost excuseable, because she was defending her sister. But just tell the truth already)

- She lied about not accepting earmarks. (She's accepted more federal money than almost any other Governor in the U.S.)

The list goes on and on. Andrew Sullivan is documenting the atrocities.

But guess what, since she believes in Jesus, the Evangelicals don't care. And it is becoming increasingly clear to me that Evangelical Politics isn't about right and wrong, it's about power. 

So let me say this clearly, "Just because you believe in Jesus, that doesn't necessarily make you a moral competent leader."

My five years at City Bible Church and the last eight years of President Bush have taught me that.

45 thoughts on “Sarah Palin is the female Bill Clinton

  1. Andrew Sullivan is documenting the atrocities

    Let me put the conservative spin on the issues, since Sullivan obvioulsy doesn’t like McCain or Palin:

    1. The democrats gave her credit for stopping the bridge to nowhere…but they mysteriously took down the web site giving her credit once she was running for vice president (I wonder who requested that). She admits to supporting the project before she got in office, but even democrats gave her credit for killing the project.

    Click here for Google Cache of page

    2. I don’t fault her for wanting to fire a trooper who tazered her nephew, and threatened to kill her father. I don’t want that clown pulling me over for speeding…he might tazer me and I would have to say “don’t taze me bro“.

    3. She never claimed to not take funding for federal projects…in fact she said she cut the earmarks in 1/2 in her short time as governor, she never claimed they didn’t accept them. She said the back room dealings that go on in washington need to be brought in the light.

    I put more blame on the senators who voted for earmarks than those who take them. If a governor didn’t take earmarks, then their people would pay billions in taxes in Washington D.C. only to have the money sent to projects in other states. I think that would be a bad governor. I fault those who set up the earmark spending (like all the senators except McCain). I think we need to change the system, not sling mud at a governor for doing what all governors do…

    See this article about Biden/Obama voting for the bridge…twice.

    I find it amazing how much the press has tried to drudge up about her in a few short weeks…but it only seems to bolster the public’s support for her. I think the public looks at the ridiculous claims against her like this ad on youtube.

    In fact, I think this article is a good example of why Obama isn’t doing well in the polls right now. Many women feel Obama slighted a woman in the primary, and they see all these smears on Palin as more of the same.

    Ok…now I will take my partisan hat off and go about my day…I love a good argument in the morning.

    “Just because you believe in Jesus, that doesn’t necessarily make you a moral competent leader.”

    I can agree 100% with that…remember, Obama claims to be Christian too. I could find conservative blogs that do the same thing to Obama as Sullivan does to McCain/Palin…and there are a lot out there. I just don’t trust either side’s spin, and I don’t think its helpful to spew that stuff as if it is a fact since both sides will spin it away (like I tried to do above).

  2. Excellent observation….my pastor is blowing palin up like she is such a great woman and does not think too highly of obama…even said during a sermon that obama has charisma etc…but he should not be president or something along those lines which I think is wrong because you are pretty much saying dont vote for him from the pulpit…anyhow just my 2 cents.

  3. Justin, this is great. Thanks for turning me onto Andrew Sullivan. I think more and more evangelicals are finally starting to realize what a fraud Palin really is. It will take some time for the hype to die down but I have yet to meet are rational thinker who can really defend her as a good VP candidate.

  4. [Comment ID #34962 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Pastors promoting republican candidates from the pulpit is nothing new. The sad part is that many of them don’t realize that they are no smarter then anyone else just because they are a pastor. They think that position gives them some kind of standing in the real world. Good for you for not buying into it.

  5. She admits to supporting the project before she got in office,

    She’s still lying about it in her stump speech, though.

    I don’t fault her for wanting to fire a trooper who tazered her nephew, and threatened to kill her father.

    This may or may not be true. But it’s not the reason she tried to initially get him fired. It’s something she has come up with after the fact. She just needs to admit it.

    Obama claims to be Christian too.

    Obama is a Christian. But honestly, I don’t care all that much. I’m voting for him, because he’s competent.

    Craig, not all politicans are the same. Some are good and some are bad.

    Historically, I would agree that political parties are the same. I despised Clinton’s behavior in the 90′s. And I voted for Bush to punish the Democrats for defending Bill Clinton. And I’m voting for Obama partially to punish the Republicans for their incompetence. That, and I like Obama.

    Just because their are two sides to an argument, doesn’t mean they are both equal. You sound like a Republican who wants to vote Democratic, but just can’t bring himself to do it. And I’m telling you, you can do it, Craig. It’ll change your life.

    I remember in 2003 when I decided I was voting for Kerry, because I so hated the Iraq war. It was such a good feeling. I didn’t have to just march in lock-step with the Democrats or Republicans. I could choose to believe what I wanted. And I could support whoever I wanted.

    Come on over to the light side, Craig. Obama is waiting for you.

  6. Come on over to the light side, Craig. Obama is waiting for you.

    If I came over to the “light side”, then I can’t argue with you guys. That’s no fun.

  7. Since none of the alleged “lies” are based in reality, I would say the person mischaracterizing what she has said and done in an effort to make Sarah Palin look dishonest is doing the real impersonation of Bill Clinton. This is just like the “Obama is a Muslim” nonsense that was thrown around when Obama first became a contender. Lets throw all the mud we can and see if any of it sticks.

    There are legitimate reasons to question whether Sarah Palin should be a heartbeat from the Presidency without parroting misinformation.

    By all means, vote for Barack. But don’t assume those of us who won’t feel some religious obligation to vote for the Republican. Aside from generally preferring a tough guy to a primadona, the thought of Obama appointing Supreme Court Justices scares the living hell out of me. We all have our reasons.

    God Bless America.

    DOC

    P.S.

    Come on over to the light side, Craig. Obama is waiting for you.

    Since the Messiahship of B. Hussein Obama is a now a running joke, maybe the Obama camp should poke a little fun at themselves and start putting Matthew 11:28 on their campaign signs. I think it would be hilarious.

  8. [Comment ID #34970 Will Be Quoted Here]

    How precisely is it that the “alleged lies are not based in reality”?

    She certainly is working terribly hard to hide something up there in the tundra.

    Judges scare you, having a man with 40 years of untreated ptsd holding the nuclear football scares me more.

  9. She certainly is working terribly hard to hide something up there in the tundra.

    Please explain. I really don’t know what you’re referring to.

  10. Since the Messiahship of B. Hussein Obama is a now a running joke, maybe the Obama camp should poke a little fun at themselves and start putting Matthew 11:28 on their campaign signs. I think it would be hilarious.

    Heh. That would be funny.

    And look, Sarah actually is making stuff up. It’s not a partisan attack. It’s based in facts.

    I was annoyed with the Dems for defended Bill Clinton’s obvious lies. And I’m equally annoyed at the Repubs for defending Sarah.

    And if you’re voting for McCain because you genuinely fear a liberal supreme court, I can completely understand that. And in fact, find that argument rather persuasive. I just think the Republicans have royally screwed up this country in the last eight years. And I think they did much more damage to the country than our Supreme Court. If I have to choose between a liberal Supreme Court or a Republican President. I’ll take my chances with the Supreme Court.

  11. Let me ask a sincere question…what if I pulled up all the lies and distortion Obama has told, and all the backpedelling hand cover-ups he has done? Would that change your mind?

    Trust me, that stuff is out there.

  12. Probably not, Craig. I read the right-wing blogs. And the distortions aren’t the same. Though, I would agree that all campaigns do take certain liberties with the truth.

    A really good non-partisan site for checking up on this is:

    http://www.factcheck.org/

  13. Probably not, Craig. I read the right-wing blogs. And the distortions aren’t the same.

    I feel the same way, and the left-wing blogs are no better than the right. Come on, they are even hacking into her personal email accounts, saying she is not the mother of her child, sending out lists of books she banned…some of the books weren’t even published at the time of the alleged banning. I think we can call this fear mongering unlike anything I have ever seen.

    Though, I would agree that all campaigns do take certain liberties with the truth.

    This is why pointing to the other and saying “they lie more” just sounds silly.

  14. Alright. We’re going round in circles, here and I’m not going to persuade you that there is actually a difference between how the two campaigns are being run. Fair enough. I would just say that the group that hacked into Palin’s email was not a liberal group. They’re a bunch of hackers. And the Democratic blogs have attacked the group for doing it.

  15. I would just say that the group that hacked into Palin’s email was not a liberal group. They’re a bunch of hackers. And the Democratic blogs have attacked the group for doing it.

    You are right, they are kiddie hackers from their parent’s basement…but they were looking for evidence that the smears of her using personal email for government business to avoid disclosure laws. These smears were from the left. There was an article in the Seattle Times about how she is lying and under-handed in her emails because she is trying to avoid disclosure laws with Yahoo accounts. What I find amusing, is the little hackers were very displeased to find NO EVIDENCE in her private email acount. Just a bunch of personal emails and pictures of her family.

    Just a smear tons of people believed, but turns out to be false.

    Cat, I agree, we won’t convince each other and I’m cool with that…but I sure do enjoy arguing.

  16. And look, Sarah actually is making stuff up. It’s not a partisan attack. It’s based in facts.

    Please tell me what she’s making up. I’m a big fan of facts :) I’m just not sure which ones you are referring to here.

  17. I just spent the last three years of my life in law school, studying Constitutional law and the history of our Supreme Court. I know it’s a big hype tactic for the right to claim that a republican president will appoint right wing Supreme Court Justices that will eventually overturn Roe v. Wade, but that’s just political mongering. Although the possibility does exist, the chances of it happening are next to none.

    First it would take a lot longer then 8 years for enough spots on the bench to open up to get a right wing majority. Second, even if we do finally get a republican Court, it would take many more years and lots and lots of money for an abortion case to even reach that Court so they could overturn it. Third, it would be very, very, very hard for the Court to come up with a reason to overturn it since the Court has rarely ever overturned their own decisions. They would have to establish a proper justification under the Constitution that would take away fundamental rights that were previously granted. That’s so hard to do. Finally, if it was overturned there would be so many lawsuits filed by people with claims of Constitutional violations and government intrusion into fundamental rights that the system would eventually revert back.

    A quick highlight for all the right wingers: for 20 of the last 28 years we have had a republican president in office, and none of the right wing values have been reflected in our countries legal/political system. In fact as the years have gone by the country has become more “free” on moral values. How do you explain that? Also, how can a party that says they want less government involvement in people’s lives, turn around and ask the government to make certain fundamental right illegal? It just doesn’t add up to me.

  18. Reformer said:

    Also, how can a party that says they want less government involvement in people’s lives, turn around and ask the government to make certain fundamental right illegal? It just doesn’t add up to me.

    That is a great point! Probably the best point I have heard in a while.

  19. I’m gonna plagiarize that point. But there is an art to plagiarizing.

    The first time you share the point with someone, you say something like this, “ya know my boy Reformer once said…”

    The second time you share the point with someone, you say something like this, “ya know someone once said…”

    The third time you share the point with someone, you say something like this, “ya know, I was praying one morning and God showed me…”

  20. Reformer,
    Thank you SO MUCH for sharing what you shared. The ultra-conservatives seem to be seriously convinced that the President’s view on abortion is the supreme issue, and that his/her view will have impact on Roe v Wade. That belief just befuddles me, for lack of a better word. The pro-choice camp wants a pro-choice candidate, but in my review of NARAL and NOW websites, I didn’t find any information on them at all about the need for a pro-choice President because of his/her role to appoint supreme court judges. The pro-life camp wants a pro-life candidate. I guess both sides believe that one’s view on abortion is indicative of one’s world-view generally and the rest of one’s policy positions. I don’t believe that.

    I am pro-life. I even value the lives of the hundreds of thousands of innocents slaughtered in Iraq for no valid reason! At any rate, my point is, I’m pro-life. I just don’t think the president’s view on abortion is relevant because s/he cannot overturn Roe v Wade or bring that about. I really appreciate you sharing the legal issues and how long and involved the process would be for the supreme court to move towards overturning Roe v Wade and how unlikely that would be, even at the end of such a process. I also completely agree that despite the right-wing administrations we’ve had for the past three decades (excluding Clinton, of course), our nation hasn’t become increasingly moral or “Christian.” Quite the opposite! I just don’t understand why that isn’t obvious to every American. I know that sounds arrogant, and I apologize. I truly do believe in civil dialogue about these issues, and try to keep it civil.

    Craig & DOC, if you want to know what lies McCain/Palin are peddling, it doesn’t require extensive time or research. Like catalyst suggested, check out http://www.factcheck.org/. http://www.politifact.org is also a good one. I haven’t even heard of the nonsensical, minor lies (or attempted “smears”) you mentioned. It’s the major, bona fide, aggregious ones that concern me. Her views concern me just as much, particularly her view that the disaster in Iraq is “God’s War.” I just can’t get past that one, even if I otherwise remained enamored with the Republican party leadership. They drove me out, though, with their lack of compassion for the poor, hatred toward gays/lesbians, favoritism toward plutocrats…oh, and utter disregard for the sanctity of the hundreds of thousands of lives of they’ve taken and otherwise destroyed (only 2% of which were “insurgents,” and for what? They didn’t even get Bin Laden! I firmly believe that the Presidency is not just–or even mostly–about the person in the oval office, but about the leadership of the party in power. The prospect of a continuation of this administration’s reign truly makes me concerned about our nation.

    No party or person will save one person or one nation. Jesus the only redeemer. He looks at people’s hearts. We look at the outward. All we can do is use the minds God has given us, yield them to him, seek his face for wisdom in how we vote.

    P.S. I am incredibly relieved to be part of a church that does not preach politics from the pulpit. I think it’s completely inappropriate.

  21. Here are a few, since I don’t have the time or will to do a long response:

    They drove me out, though, with their lack of compassion for the poor

    I suggest you look at the giving records of Obama/Biden (Obama stepped up his giving when he started his run for president, Biden gives much less than 1%) vs McCain (I don’t know Palin’s). The difference is McCain gives with his own money (quite a bit), Obama/Biden want to use other people’s money. Obama made fun of McCain’s 7 houses, but failed to mention a few were for children, one for a poor aunt, and others were investments. Meanwhile, Obama’s 1/2 brother lives off $1/day in Kenya.

    hatred toward gays/lesbians

    I guess when you don’t want to extend marriage rights that means hatred?

    favoritism toward plutocrats

    This is a republican virtue only? Haven’t you seen freddy/fannie? Who do you think they gave the vast majority of their political giving to (Democrats with Obama getting the most)? The guys who raped them of over $100Million worked in the Clinton administration…

    No party or person will save one person or one nation. Jesus the only redeemer. He looks at people’s hearts. We look at the outward. All we can do is use the minds God has given us, yield them to him, seek his face for wisdom in how we vote.

    I agree 100% with you on this one. I don’t think it is as simple as Democrats good/Republicans bad or vice-versa…I just agree more with the governing principles of McCain than Obama, and I like McCain because of stuff he does like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0cfh3dn5r8

    My point is not that you are wrong, but it seems like you come across fairly judgemental for those who decide to vote for McCain as hearless, gay-hating, cheap assed, murdering, people who want to reward unscrupulous rich people. I can assure you, that isn’t the case.

  22. Craig,

    …it seems like you come across fairly judgemental for those who decide to vote for McCain as hearless, gay-hating, cheap assed, murdering, people who want to reward unscrupulous rich people. I can assure you, that isn’t the case.

    You are right, that’s what I think. Just kidding. Totally.

    I was talking about my concerns about the Republican party’s leadership. Didn’t mean to imply that everyone who votes for them shares the traits that drove me out of the party. Sorry if that’s how I came across. I actually think that most people are good-willed and are supporting a candidate they truly believe is in the best interest of he/she personally and of our nation. I just seriously disagree with those who believe that more of what we’ve had for the past eight years is in the best interest of 99% of the people in our country, or of the country as a whole. Sorry, I just do. No disrespect intended.

    The laws that the Republicans promote do not help the poor (or usually even the middle class), do alienate gay people (and I absolutely believe that marriage is to be between one man and one woman, but I also believe civil union makes sense as a law, and I know for sure that “the world” views “no gay marriage” legislation/referendums/initiatives–and the nasty tone with which they are nearly always executed–as “the church and God hate gays.”), and do reward the wealthiest in our country…and how about that Iraq war? I notice you didn’t comment on that. ;)

    I respect that you prefer the Republicans’ governing principals. I, for one, want to see our nation out of debt and out of Iraq. I want to see everyone with adequate, affordable healthcare (not provided by the government, by the way), and every child in our nation receiving a high-quality public education (regardless of where they live). I want to see the United States’ international reputation improved. That’s why I changed parties. That’s why I’m voting for Obama. Not because I think he’s a savior, but because I think he is much more likely to help bring about the vision I just outlined.

  23. Reformer,

    Before I comment on your entire post, I’d just like to point out that it is you guys who hijacked this into an abortion discussion. I fear liberal justices because they are generally more comfortable making law from the bench. I happen to think that is a legislative perogative since this is a representative democracy, not an oligarchy. And yes, there are examples of “judicial activism” from the right, but at least they act like its a bad thing.

    I just spent the last three years of my life in law school, studying Constitutional law and the history of our Supreme Court. I know it’s a big hype tactic for the right to claim that a republican president will appoint right wing Supreme Court Justices that will eventually overturn Roe v. Wade, but that’s just political mongering. Although the possibility does exist, the chances of it happening are next to none.

    Nonsense. Given the comical reasoning in Roe, it is quite likely. That’s why the left had a coronary over the Roberts and Alito nominations.

    First it would take a lot longer then 8 years for enough spots on the bench to open up to get a right wing majority.

    There are currently four justices on the court (Thomas, Scalia, Roberts, and Alito) who would likely overturn Roe today. That means you only need one more vote. Both Stevens and Ginsburg are likely to retire or die in the next four years. Replace either one and you have the magic number.

    Second, even if we do finally get a republican Court, it would take many more years and lots and lots of money for an abortion case to even reach that Court so they could overturn it.

    The cases are there, and they’re already in the system. The strategies for which cases will make this happen have been planned for decades. And the money is the mootest point of all. There are thousands of lawyers who would happily take those cases for free. And there are lots of rich people who would happily fund the challenge anyway.

    Third, it would be very, very, very hard for the Court to come up with a reason to overturn it since the Court has rarely ever overturned their own decisions. They would have to establish a proper justification under the Constitution that would take away fundamental rights that were previously granted. That’s so hard to do.

    The legal justifications for overturning Roe have been discussed for decades. Even lawyers who like the result have recognized that the reasoning was weak, at best.

    The reasons for overturning may not be persuasive to you, but in my judgment they have far more basis in the actual constitution than the emanations from the penumbra of the 4th and and 14th amendments that served as the justification for the decision in the first place. Given what we know now about the unborn child compared to what we knew in 1972, the case becomes stronger every day.

    Overturning precedent is a big deal, but it is done somewhat frequently. Since you have taken Constitutional law more recently than I have, you’re even more aware of all the times in which the Supreme Court reversed itself. Who knows, they might even shock us and resurrect the 10th amendment.

    Finally, if it was overturned there would be so many lawsuits filed by people with claims of Constitutional violations and government intrusion into fundamental rights that the system would eventually revert back.

    I’m not following you here. Either abortion is a fundamental right or it is not. In my opinion, there is no textual basis for finding that it is. Roe was totally political. If the Supreme Court decided (properly) that the matter should be left to the states to decide for themselves, that does not threaten any of our other fundamental rights in the least.

    Also, how can a party that says they want less government involvement in people’s lives, turn around and ask the government to make certain fundamental right illegal? It just doesn’t add up to me.

    It’s the same reason we support laws prohibiting other forms of murder. We disagree that there is, or has ever been, a fundamental right to kill innocent people.

  24. [Comment ID #34993 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Great well thought out response DOC. Although there is a lot of right wing speculation going on there, I never said that Roe v. Wade can’t be overturned. I said it is a very slim chance and gave my reasoning why. As much as you want to convince yourself that it’s that simple, the reality is that it will take years. Bush promised it and well….you can’t even argue with me on that point. So we can agree to disagree on this fact.

    However, you still have not given me a clear justification on why you want less government intrusion into people’s lives, but then turn around and say you want the legislature to make abortion illegal? And also answer me this: what do you and fellow right wingers hope to achieve by making abortion illegal? Do you honestly think it’s going to stop abortion in our country? Drugs are illegal and you can find them on any street corner in America. And do you think it is a good thing to throw doctors in jail who perform illegal abortions? There isn’t a prison in America that isn’t overcrowded as it is (and remember prisons are paid for with taxpayer money so the more people in jail, the more taxes you pay!) so why would we want to add more.

    Look, I’m not trying to change you or anyone else’s mind on this issue. I was you 5 years ago. All I am trying to do is to get you to think rationally. My real point is making abortion illegal will not solve anything…in fact it will make things worse. Why don’t those right wingers use the same time, money and effort that they put into stopping abortion into educating people, preventing teen pregnancies, and offering alternative options such as adoption. It’s wasted energy to put it all into abortion, because no matter what abortion is not going to stop.

  25. I would just like to point out that our Republican administration is about to spend Hundreds of Billions of dollars bailing out the idiots on Wall St.

    And the Democrats, being the spineless cretins they are, will likely go right along with the plan. I hope not, but I’m not optimistic.

  26. However, you still have not given me a clear justification on why you want less government intrusion into people’s lives, but then turn around and say you want the legislature to make abortion illegal? And also answer me this: what do you and fellow right wingers hope to achieve by making abortion illegal? Do you honestly think it’s going to stop abortion in our country?

    I can’t speak for “right-wingers” in general, not being affiliated with any particular “wing”, but I can say that I want Roe v. Wade overturned because I object to the federal government taking on the power to make moralistic decisions in its constituent’s lives. It is not an issue that should’ve ever made it to the federal level and I don’t believe it’s their jurisdiction to make such a decision. You look at it completely opposite from the way I see it – you say that for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade would be “intruding on people’s rights”, but I see the issue of abortion as something that should be decided on a state-by-state basis.

    Drugs are illegal and you can find them on any street corner in America. And do you think it is a good thing to throw doctors in jail who perform illegal abortions? There isn’t a prison in America that isn’t overcrowded as it is (and remember prisons are paid for with taxpayer money so the more people in jail, the more taxes you pay!) so why would we want to add more.

    Your argument here is on very weak footing. Following your logic, since our prisons are overcrowded as it is, we should probably make things like drug trafficking, child molestation, and rape legal since drug traffickers, child molesters and rapists are overcrowding our prison system.

    And to say that having more people in jail would raise taxes is complete jabberwocky. Not only that, but your federal tax dollars don’t go to paying for the federal government’s budget.. they’re used to pay the interest on the government’s loans from the Federal Reserve.

  27. s much as you want to convince yourself that it’s that simple, the reality is that it will take years. Bush promised it and well….you can’t even argue with me on that point.

    I’m not aware of Bush promising to overturn Roe. It would be a silly thing to say since he’s never been on the Supreme Court. That being said, he’s done his part with Roberts and Alito.

    However, you still have not given me a clear justification on why you want less government intrusion into people’s lives, but then turn around and say you want the legislature to make abortion illegal?

    I’m generally for the government not running people’s lives, but I’m not an anarchist. I think government has legitimate functions. I think stopping the murder of innocent people is an appropriate “intrusion”.

    what do you and fellow right wingers hope to achieve by making abortion illegal?

    I hope to achieve the rule of law rather than the rule of men. The Constitution is silent on the issue of abortion. Finding a fundamental right to abortion in the emanations from the penumbra of the 4th and 14th amendment is an admission that “we know its not there, but we want it to be. And since we know the legislature won’t do what we want them to do, we’ll circumvent the legislative process and declare a fundamental right to an abortion”. It was/is simply inappropriate.

    In cases where the constitution is silent, the Supreme Court should acknowledge that the Constitution says nothing about the issue of abortion and do what the 10th amendment instructs–allow the states to decide for themselves on all issues not dealt with in the Constitution.

    Would it end all abortion? Of course not. But that’s not the point. The point is, we’re a democracy where laws should be made legislatively by people elected for that purpose. We are not an oligarchy where laws are decreed by judicial fiat.

    Do you honestly think it’s going to stop abortion in our country? Drugs are illegal and you can find them on any street corner in America. And do you think it is a good thing to throw doctors in jail who perform illegal abortions? There isn’t a prison in America that isn’t overcrowded as it is (and remember prisons are paid for with taxpayer money so the more people in jail, the more taxes you pay!) so why would we want to add more.

    All of this misses the point. The tragedy of Roe, aside from poorly reasoned, is that it has prevented policy makers from wrestling with these legitimate questions. The founding fathers did not contemplate the issue of abortion in the Constitution. If we want to put it in the Constitution, there are means of doing that. All I’m asking for is that the judicial branch leave the legislating up to the legislature.

    Look, I’m not trying to change you or anyone else’s mind on this issue. I was you 5 years ago.

    So they broke you, huh. I understand that maintaining rationality in the midst of all that insanity can be difficult. I’ve been there. Unfortunately, it will always be true that if you repeat something often enough, no matter how bizarre, people will eventually believe it.

    All I am trying to do is to get you to think rationally.

    Likewise.

  28. Giving power to the states to decide this issue is not the answer either. That just means it will be legal in California and illegal in Texas. What does that solve?

    Talking to you people on this topic is like trying to pull a steak out of the mouth of a rabid pit bull. There is no reasoning and understanding on your side. I get that you are passionate about it, but how come you don’t show the same passion to the kids who are actually born and have to grow up in pure poverty. I don’t see you picketing the government on their behalf? In fact you tear down programs like welfare that try to help them.

    Believe it or not, I AM PRO-LIFE. I just don’t believe in making abortion illegal. In my view that is not the answer. Funny how I am too left for the right and too right for the left. Guess that’s what living in the Gospel is all about…Jesus offended everyone in his day too.

    So I will humbly bow out of this topic and continue to focus on the McSame/Failin presidential ticket. And if Obama wins and does something terrible in this area I will gladly come back on say I was wrong. Just like I have admitted such for voting for George Bush.

  29. Giving power to the states to decide this issue is not the answer either. That just means it will be legal in California and illegal in Texas. What does that solve?

    Ever read the Constitution? Specifically, Amendment 10:

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    If California wants to allow it and Texas is against it, then so be it – at least it was decided by the people, not the Supreme Court. There are many arguments against abortion, and many arguments for it. I’m not arguing for or against it, I’m against the federal government – be it the judicial, executive, or legislative branch – taking on power it was never given. It seems like a slippery slope to me. I know the supremes claimed Roe v. Wade to fall under due process, but that seems like quite a reach in my opinion.

    Talking to you people on this topic is like trying to pull a steak out of the mouth of a rabid pit bull. There is no reasoning and understanding on your side.

    Wow. Well, I’m not quite sure who you’re condemning with your use of “you people”, but I suppose I’m sorry that we can’t all possess your faculties for reasoning and logic and find ourselves completely incapable of understanding such complex issues.

    Funny how I am too left for the right and too right for the left. Guess that’s what living in the Gospel is all about…Jesus offended everyone in his day too.

    I’d be careful with that kind of reasoning… I’ve always been rather wary of comparing myself to Jesus. Especially when Jesus said things like love your enemies… I could be wrong, but I don’t recall that part about comparing people of different views than you to rabid pit bulls. Not that I couldn’t feel the love in that, just sayin’.

  30. Catalyst…I agree 100% with you that Bush is blowing it on that one. Bush has proven without a shadow of a doubt he is not a fiscal conservative.

    Psst…McCain agrees with you too (but don’t tell anyone).

    Well. He’s gonna get his chance to vote against this bailout, when it’s presented to Congress. And I will be very impressed if he actually votes against it. I wouldn’t count on it though. It’s a Republican Administration pushing this thing, and they all band together.

  31. [Comment ID #34997 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Yeah all the more reason for me to not like Bush…I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal…just the opposite of that guy. Man I can’t believe I voted for him…twice!

  32. Giving power to the states to decide this issue is not the answer either. That just means it will be legal in California and illegal in Texas.

    Exactly, like hundreds of other matters that are decided on a state-by-state basis.

    What does that solve?

    It solves the problem of being governed by 9 kings in black robes rather than by elected legislators.

    Talking to you people on this topic is like trying to pull a steak out of the mouth of a rabid pit bull. There is no reasoning and understanding on your side.

    I thought I was being responsive. So I’m sorry. I think I do understand where you’re coming from. I just disagree that the result is the only thing that matters when making law. I think our constitution is mostly about process because the framers felt it was important to prevent one branch from getting too much power. So reaching the right result in the wrong way is a bad thing for all of us because it undermines the long-term stability of our democracy.

  33. Reformer, here is a good post from another blogger who also voted for Bush twice, and is now voting for Obama:

    “Every day the travesty of GOP rule becomes more and more obvious. I still believe many of the same things I have always believed, whether it be about abortion, the death penalty, the use of the military, etc., but it just becomes increasingly clear with every day how bankrupt the conservative movement has become. I don’t think the Democrats are that much better, and have repeatedly stated that I came to the party pre-disillusioned, but they are, at least right now, better. That can not be argued. What galls me is the depths that some folks seem willing to sink to in order to keep power for the broken and corrupt “conservative” ideology. It seems to me that simply comparing where we are now as opposed to where we were at the end of the Clinton years really says it all. The GOP has failed, and they richly deserve a few years off.”

    I couldn’t say it better myself.

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/

  34. Here’s our red flag on this one: our old MFI Pastor here is reported to
    have broken down and cried when he watched her nominating speech at the
    convention.
    Not that is a red flag in our books!

  35. What we really wonder is why he didn’t break down and start crying when hundreds of his congregation, or sheep, felt they’d had enough abuse and ran
    out the front door. Of course we weren’t running for office at the time—-baa said the sheep!

  36. My hope is built on nothing less
    than Jesus blood and righteousness!
    I dare not trust the sweetest frame
    but wholly lean on Jesus name.

  37. [Comment ID #35044 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Whaaaat? The only justifiable reason for crying from her speech is out of fear that she may be one (missed) heartbeat from the Presidency. That’s a scary thought.

    Well, that and the whole hockey mom-pitbull reference. I winced.. it was painful.

  38. I find the actions coming out of the McCain camp this week absolutely ridiculous. This guy has fallen so far from the tree it’s gotten comical. Suspending the campaign to save America? More like to save his butt.

    By the way, did anyone else see the Catie Couric interview?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP12aNzocSc

    I don’t care if you are the most conservative, right-wing republican ever. How can anyone think that this woman should be in a leadership position in the white house? She has no clue how to govern (what does that say about the people of Alaska?). She is so far in over her head, and the McCain camp knows it. I mean they won’t even let reporters get near her. Everything has got to be some scripted, softball interview with the mainstream media (and even those haven’t gone well).

    I think the writing is on the wall. Barack Obama will be our next President.

  39. I find the actions coming out of the McCain camp this week absolutely ridiculous. This guy has fallen so far from the tree it’s gotten comical. Suspending the campaign to save America? More like to save his butt.

    Well, obviously he was greatly needed for a bipartisan agreement on a plan to give Wall St more money from the pockets of average Americans. He is an expert at giving to the rich and taking from the poor, you know. That’s why they call him the maverick.

    But seriously, is anyone supposed to believe that he’s “unselfishly” putting aside his campaign to help solve the financial crisis? Like he has some great knowledge or calming influence to offer? All he’ll do is divide the place even more by making other Republicans feel like they have to follow after him.

    This is still my favortie (as in makes me cringe the most) video of Palin, though the Couric interview is a close second:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z75QSExE0jU&feature=related

  40. I would like to note that, though I do not believe he is “unselfishly” putting aside his campaign to help solve the financial crisis, I do believe that in so doing he is throwing away his shot at the Presidency and any momentum he had as we speak, and I am thankful to him for that.

  41. Andrey Bolkonsky said: But seriously, is anyone supposed to believe that he’s “unselfishly” putting aside his campaign to help solve the financial crisis?

    What’s even funnier is the fact that he couldn’t get more then 1/3 of the republicans to pass the damn thing. “McCain Takes Hit From Bailout Collapse.” And this is their leader? He’s been going around the country talking about how the republican party has lost their way and it’s time to fight back against republican politics. Huh? This guy has really lost it and the polls are finally starting to show that America agrees.

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