Shmashmortion stops a beating heart…
Posted on September 21st, 2008 by Reformed Pope into the Politics, The messiah will be our President categoryWith all this political talk going on these days I can't help but wonder why ABORTION is such a huge issue for Christians? Maybe I'm crazy (and yes if my parents read this I will likely get disowned) but seriously…Why is finding a Pro-Life candidate the NUMBER 1 issue that Christians look for (so long as those pesky gays aren't trying to be treated equally).
Here is my stance on Abortion: I am Pro-Life…100%…well actually, its probably only about 50%, I don't really know, but think as I continue typing this we'll all find out. I believe that abortion is the killing of innocent children (they may not be innocent…I don't know how to justify that with "All have sinned…" but that's another post for a smarter blogger). Anyhow, I believe that abortion is killing little babies and is wrong…but here is my problem:
Where in the Bible is there an example of Christians…or anyone for that matter…working hard to protect "innocent" life? In the Old Testament, God was the one doing all the killing. How many "lands" did the Jews take over and kill every Man, Woman, Child, and Oxen…? Plenty…right? But now, life has taken on a whole new level of importance.
Also, weren't there Biblical societies that sacrificed children to their gods? Why didn't our God have His people try to stop them? Life wasn't nearly as important to them as it is to us…it seems.
I get that one of the 10 commandments is Do Not Kill…but there's a difference between "YOU Should Not Kill" and "YOU Should Attempt to Stop all others from Killing". I don't see God calling us to "Regulate the laws in an attempt to make society more Christian"…and I don't see Jesus out doing anything about it either.
It is my belief that today's Christian has gotten distracted from what is truly important - Living a Life That Honors God - and now spends way to much time trying to tell others what to do. We need to get back to LIVING the Christian Life and quit worrying about what everyone else is doing.
Laws don't make Christian disciples…however… People living a Christ-like life…well…you see where I'm going with this.
Of course, I think that life is valued a little too highly these days?
On a completely unrelated note, I saw a T-Shirt yesterday that read: "Obama Says Knock You Out".
Indeed.
RSS feed for posts
September 21st, 2008 at 7:55 am
Murder against children is never right in my mind. It is a cause worth fighting hard for, not just because the Bible says so. It’s because if we become tolerant, passive or complasant about murdering children, we easily could take the next step into something worse. BUT the Bible does say:
Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers? (Job 31:15).
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked (Psalm 82:3-4).
September 21st, 2008 at 7:59 am
One other thing:
Deuteronomy 27:25 — “Cursed be he that taketh a bribe to slay an innocent person.”
Doesn’t that about cover people who operate abortion clinics?
September 21st, 2008 at 8:17 am
I’d have to go with you RP on this one - whether we like it or not - the right to kill an unborn baby is legal & for some reason abortion and homosexuality are the only heinous sins picked on by evanglicals - lets not mention adultery, fornication, greed, lying, malicious gossip thats so prevalent in those churches today.
If Christians would focus on loving our American society - showing Christs love for the nation - maybe we could prevent this sensless act by our kindness- Thats what God does - he leads people to repentance by His kindness.
The sin of our nation is huge, but it HAS BEEN PAID FOR!!!!!! Let’s show this country Christ and His kindness - not the yelling, protesting hateful image they think we are now.
God will take care of these lives - He is a gracious God and I’d like to think all those lives are in heaven now because His grace is infinite.
Until we as Christians stop judging the world and using gestapo nazi tactics to force Christianity on everyone, they will continue to fight against us because we are hateful to them and we offer no hope.
On my end, once our debt is gone - I’d like to start giving to the Crisis Pregnancy centers in our area - thats how I will support the pro-life movement.
September 21st, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Amen! Murder of children is condemned by the Bible, and Christians are justified in seeking to fight against this practice. But the Bible condemns the murder of anyone, whether adult or child, and especially condemns the murder of the poor by the rich.
Therefore why aren’t more American evangelicals outraged over the rape of Iraq by the U.S. Government - a rape that was solely about oil and satisfying the greed of rich American elites? Why aren’t more American evangelicals outraged over Guantanamo and secret trials of people who have been kidnapped by the U.S. government without due cause or due process? Why aren’t more American evangelicals outraged over the explosive growth of the private prison industry in the U.S., and the passage of ever-harsher laws to deal with ever-more trivial offenses? Why aren’t more American evangelicals outraged over the destruction and exploitation of poor citizens of Third World nations by the policies of rich American elites? How many of these evangelicals have dared to read “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein? How many of these evangelicals are willing to bravely admit the damaging effects which their lifestyles of excessive consumption have on the rest of the world, and on the environment?
The American Religious Right has shrunk their definition of “Biblical morality” to just two issues, and they have done this in order to rally evangelical support around political candidates whose main agenda is actually to protect the rich and to expand their ability to jack the rest of us.
September 21st, 2008 at 7:12 pm
It’s weird to think that God needs a offensive line. I realize everyone is not called to do the same thing, but when the muslim fundamentalists took down the trade centers, they felt as though they were acting on the behalf of “God” or “Allah”, as they like to refer to Him. To a lesser extent, evangelical christians do the same thing. They send loads of cash to groups like ACLJ in order to stop the ACLU from “destroying our country.” But when did God call us to be the defense of his Word? Please enlighten me if I’m wrong. The great commission is simple and clear. At least to me. I think church history will look back and wonder how the evangelical community got so distracted with things that were never to be the on the forefront of our ultimate mission statement: Go into all the world and preach the gospel.
September 22nd, 2008 at 7:00 am
I think you’re confusing the argument. The things you mention in the last half of your statement do have laws against them. So to say that Christians ignore these things for the sake of things like abortion is unfair. If there was no law against rape, I’m sure Christians would be upset about that, too. I understand your point, that Christians forget the plank in their own eye, so to speak, but it doesn’t mean we should stop advocating for laws that reflect our values, even when we have a hard time living up to them.
Our entire legal system is based upon Judeo-Christian morality. We have a system of justice in place because we, as Americans, value the freedom and protection of all people. When someone infringes someone else’s right to “the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness”, by breaking some law (theft, murder, rape, fraud), then our legal system kicks in to punish wrong-doers and prevent further injustice.
So to throw up our arms and say, “Oh, well, people are going to bad, there isn’t much we can do about it,” is frankly a pretty lame and defeatist attitude. As Americans, we have the privilege and the duty to be involved in defining the nation’s morality in order to achieve justice for everyone. God is interested in social justice, and you can do a Bible word search on the words “just” “justice” “mercy” “oppressed” “poor” “widow” “orphan” and see just how much these things matter to Him.
I think if you really believe strongly that abortions should be prevented, then you should work within the legal system to get it changed. However, I sincerely doubt that Roe v. Wade will ever be overturned, even if we somehow get an all-conservative bench. The Supreme Court will not overturn a previous ruling without first coming up with clear evidence to say that they were previously mistaken. That would put a burden of proof on them to show that there is conclusive scientific “proof” that a human being is a human being at the moment of conception, and that this evidence also trumps the woman’s right to life or ability to choose. I really think it’s a lost cause, and one Christians should stop fighting and redirect their efforts towards the regulation and prevention of abortions so that it becomes a much smaller issue.
Since a presidential candidate has so little influence on this issue if elected, we must be careful not to place too much weight on this matter. It’s one thing to feel good about choosing a candidate because they are like-minded in that sense. It’s another thing to refuse to vote for someone because they don’t agree with you on this one issue, when you might otherwise consider them. Wouldn’t it better to vote based on how they plan on fixing the economy?
September 22nd, 2008 at 7:06 am
I don’t usually agree with the politics of Joe Biden, but I think he had something rather wise to say on this topic a few weeks ago on “Meet the Press”.
September 22nd, 2008 at 7:24 am
Belteshazzar: I think you’re confusing the argument. The things you mention in the last half of your statement do have laws against them. So to say that Christians ignore these things for the sake of things like abortion is unfair. If there was no law against rape, I’m sure Christians would be upset about that, too. I understand your point, that Christians forget the plank in their own eye, so to speak, but it doesn’t mean we should stop advocating for laws that reflect our values, even when we have a hard time living up to them.
JAIAM:
Fair enough - however I would like to see the evangelicals clean house before they start going to all the world and forcing Christianity down everyone’s throat instead of sharing the good news as Sola Fide argued.
The world sees Christians for who they are - imperfect people who act as though they are perfect and condemn everyone else’s imperfections. this breeds contempt for the gospel of Christ IMHO - This branch of Christianity needs some serious humility.
Where’s the Love?
September 22nd, 2008 at 9:02 am
Beltashazzar,
If we could legislate our way into Christianity then why didn’t the Soviet Union legislate their society into Marxism? And despite outright persecution in China the church there is growing faster than the church in America. The fact is that the Church fairs even better under persecution. So my question to you is, why does the evangelical portion spend so much time trying to manipulate the government when the return on investment towards building the church is low or non-existent?
September 22nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
Pope, you are the man! My only statement about the abortion issue during this election is this: There are hundreds of thousands of people dead in the Middle East because of a pro-life president. The state of Texas had more death penalty killings then any other state under a pro-life governor. There are millions of impoverished, hungry, dying kids in America who have already been born who were forgotten by a pro-life majority Congress. The point is this, despite the call on Christians to be a voice for ALL life, the only social outcry I see is about unborn life. I don’t see anything about those children who are dying and desperate now. In fact it has become a stance of the republican party to be anti social welfare, which serves the poor and needy. Making this election about one issue in a time when America is falling apart at the seams is one of the most ignorant things a person can do.
September 22nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Th Soc said:
True - apparently the Religioius Right and Dr. Dobson have a secret agenda all their own. They want to be in power for power’s sake. It’s that delusional doministic doctrine that seems to press them ever onward. They feel God has called them to rule the world.
September 22nd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
The Reformer said:
Exactly. Being “Pro-Life” should include opposing war, opposing capital punishment, supporting universal healthcare, and even supporting often villified welfare mothers who choose to stay home and raise their kids.
The so-called “Pro-Life” movement’s political strategy in the US has been mostly ineffective. US abortions declined far more during the Pro-Choice Clinton Administration than the current Bush Jr. Administration. Ultimately, abortion is not a political/legal issue, but a personal issue. Greater sex education, contraception, and financial support for single mothers are far more effective in diminishing the need for abortions than silly protests and unconstitutional laws.
September 22nd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I don’t agree at all, sorry. I’d say that war is a terrible, but sometimes necessary thing - to simply oppose all wars regardless of cause is short-sighted. Univeral healthcare sounds nice, until you figure that we have to raise taxes to pay for it and the quality of health care will actually go down instead of up. There are other ways of offering health care to the poor without sacrificing our current standards of health care. While I will agree that Christians could do a better job of supporting single parents, it’s rarely a life/death issue. Listen, I know what you meant by your statement, but I think you overplayed your hand, so let’s not confuse the issues.
September 22nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Even though we are predominantly a Christian nation, the forefathers made darn sure that religion could not control government because they saw it as a blight on religious freedom. Our laws reflect our religious values, but they do not dictate our religious beliefs. See the difference?
I don’t even know how to address the question about the USSR and Marxism. You’ll have to ask Stalin and Lenin in the next life…
I don’t understand your point about mentioning China.
I agree with you, I think Christians put a lot of wasted effort into something that can’t pay off. Instead of trying to demand that we elect a pro-life president, wouldn’t it be better to judge candidates based on other more relevant merits?
September 22nd, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Hi Belteshazzar,
I didn’t say ProLifers should oppose all wars. I agree that war is necessary at times — especially if it’s to protect life. However, it’s fairly obviously that the current supposedly Pro-Life president’s anti-diplomacy/war-first policy has led to many unnecessary deaths.
You seem to be making assumptions about what I mean by universal healthcare. I merely meant that Pro-Lifers should strive to support healthcare for everyone. I wasn’t advocating a particular type of universal healthcare plan. (BTW, the old insurance industry myth that universal healthcare results in poorer quality is not supported by health professions and appears to be disproven by the numerous countries that have been able to provided better care.)
Not being able to afford to raise a child seems to be a major factor for a woman choosing to end a pregnancy and therefore is a life/death issue (assuming one believes a fetus is a human life). If a woman were to know that she and her child would be entitled to some government support then she would be less likely to choose abortion.
September 22nd, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Norm, I commend you good sir, on a well-stated argument. My previous statements were a reaction to typical internet arguments: if you believe A, you should also believe B, C, D, etc. Both liberals and conservatives tend to argue in this fashion try to include people to their entire way of thinking. “If you’re not 110% for us, you’re against us” kind of an attitude, and I HATE THAT.
September 23rd, 2008 at 7:56 am
Wow! I am truly shocked!! What is our nation coming to when Christians are trying to place killing unborn babies on par with not offering universal health care or trouble with the economy????!!!
I will be the very first in line to say that the church often has her priorities wrong, that we are mean spirited more often than showing Christ’s love, that we try to shame others into morality to make ourselves comfortable rather than loving others into the Kingdom of God. I agree with you all on that sort of stuff.
Is our first responsibility to our own nation and those being killed in a hidden holocaust within our borders? Or is our first responsibility toward those innocent lives being killed in a war in the Middle East? Is it really more important to provide universal health care than it is to seek to save the lives of the unborn?
Sure universal health care will prompt a few people to not abort, but that is honestly NOT the reason most people are having abortions. Having a president in office who has a record of voting 4 times in the past not only for abortion, but for infanticide as well (aborted babies born alive should be left to die not provided medical attn) will only make it easier to get abortions - by far canceling out any affect of universal health care in lowering the number of abortions.
While I’d love to see Obama in office for many reasons, I remain one of *those evangelicals* who can’t bring myself to vote for him. No other issue to me seems more important than defending the lives of the unborn. If our economy crashes, I bet more people will come to the Lord than if it’s doing well. Who knows? Maybe that is God’s plan. I surely can’t be more concerned personally with a war overseas, lack of healthcare (btw our family is uninsured and feels the pain of it often), and how the economy is doing - I can’t personally see these as more important than the constant brutal slaughter of unborn children in our nation. In my opinion it is truly a holocaust that even the church is turning their back on. And when we do to choose to fight it, it is with unkindness rather than grace and love.
This is my personal opinion on the politics of abortion and I understand that it’s ok for not all Christians to vote the same as me. (which btw I’ll prob spend the day in fasting and prayer rather than voting). I do have friends who believe in abortion and who have had abortions.
But these verses really mean a lot to me….
Prov 24:10-12
Don’t give up and be helpless in times of trouble.
Don’t fail to rescue those who are doomed to die. Don’t say “I didn’t know it”, God can read your mind. He watches each of us and knows our thoughts and God will pay us back for what we do.
September 23rd, 2008 at 9:32 am
Hi Reasonable:
My point about mentioning war, universal healthcare, capital punishment, and welfare was that those who claim to be “Pro-Life” should also consider the lives lost under other policies unrelated to abortion. Unfortunately, so-called “Pro-Life” groups seemed to have merely focused on being anti-abortion. What about the lives needless lost after birth?
You’re certainly entitled to base your political views on a single-issue such as abortion and ignore the multitude of other life and death issues candidates face. However, I personally think it’s a little stubborn and simplistic to only vote for candidates that support overturning Roe v. Wade and making abortions illegals. These can be long term goals (i.e. waiting for another US Supreme Court Justice to die/resign, nominating and confirming a “Pro-Life” justice, appealing an appropriate abortion test case, etc.), but I think it would be more effective to support candidates with policies that could actually diminish the need for abortions now (education, good jobs, accessible healthcare, contraception, etc.).
I admit that I’m pro-choice; however, (at the risk of alienating my pro-choice friends & family) I would consider compromising on some women’s rights in exchange for universal healthcare and ending capital punishment. Unfortunately, so-called pro-life have so narrowly focused their politics to a narrow goal (making abortions illegal) that I don’t believe there is any opportunity for political compromise.
September 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
You know, I always felt this way about those pesky abolitionists in the 19th century. Think of all the social unrest that could have been avoided if those guys would have just shut up about that whole freedom thing.
Of course I wouldn’t ever have a slave myself, but who am I to tell other people they can’t have slaves if they think its right for them. Seems kind of self-righteous that all those Christians organized in their effort to legislate their morality for the entire country. The insensitivity of some people galls me.
Jesus never condemned slavery, and Paul even told slaves to serve their masters as if they were serving Christ himself. I just think Frederick Douglas, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Booker T. Washington, and even MLK should have just kept their intolerance to themselves and focused on their own relationship with Christ instead of projecting it on everyone else.
September 23rd, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Yes, pro-lifers ought to be pro-life in all scenarios. That would make sense -something a lot of us rarely do.
The difference is that at least those already born have a fighting chance at life. I think that’s why some of us focus *more* on abortion than on welfare. Far, far fewer are dying due to lack of welfare or lack of universal healthcare than are dying from abortion. Not to mention, at least in my state, anyone poor can get free healthcare. It’s us self-employed middle class people who are sunk.
I don’t base my politics on one issue. I have seriously weighed all of the issues and just don’t see any issue more important in my mind than the holocaust of babies. At least in the German holocaust the Jews could try to fight and hide themselves.
Since you are pro-choice, we obviously won’t see eye to eye on this one.
DOC - if you are sarcastic, that’s hilarious. I think you are…. hoping…..
September 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Your sarcasm detector is working well.
September 23rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
This absolutely disgusts me…I can’t believe the stupidity in this statement. DOC you are a complete idiot for saying this kinda stuff. Shame on you.
With fools like this on this blog, I will not be reading or posting anymore. I recommend someone remove this.
September 23rd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
It would seem we need to send Mike a sarcasm detector for Christmas this year. And some reading comprehension as a stocking stuffer.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Um, I know Mike (not his real name). He works with me. He is an atheist who believes that Christians “are social outcasts who can’t survive in the real world so they use religion as a way to make themselves feel important.” (His words, not mine). He believes we are all bigots. Pretty harsh stuff.
I told him about this site as an example of Christians who do not support the status quo and who do fight back against some of the falsity of American Christianity.
But after reading this…ouch…thanks for proving his point!
September 28th, 2008 at 11:30 am
To TH in Soc I am glad you put those scriptures in your post,however,I think we are to concerned with the unborn children and not concerned enough with the children that are already here and falling thru the cracks.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
But here is the problem, WE HAVE BECOME TOLERANT, PASSIVE, AND COMPLACENT about abortion…the proof lies in the fact that most Christians believe that voting Republican is enough. It’s utter bullshit. Christians are being used by the Repulicans to stay in power…they will never overturn Roe vs Wade…it just won’t happen.
But most Christians wouldn’t vote for someone who is pro-choice…even if they are clearly the better candidate.
I think this has been stated here a few times, but seriously…if abortion were as big and issue as most of you hypocritcal christans say it is than you would do something else about it. Voting for half ass pro-lifers isn’t even close to enough.
Get involved in your local Crisis Pregnancy Center.
Sign up for foster care.
Get out your picket signs and join DOC down in front of the Lovejoy clinic (if he’s still out there).
Actually show that you are willing to “Care for the fatherless” and see if you might just have a positive effect on this world.
By the way, if you were able to get Abortion outlawed…what would you be personally willing to do to care for the thousands of unwanted children???
September 29th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Exactly. Thank you for say that.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:03 am
One more thing…it would actually be millions. Millions of unwanted (by the parents) children born with an already broken foster care system and a country full of Christians too selfish to do anything more than make sure that they were born in order to validate their own self-righteous moralistic views (i.e. We did it! We “saved” millions of babies from being aborted! I bet God is so pleased with us! I wonder why there are so many more children going hungry and being abused and living homeless lives??? Where does the Bible talk about taking care of the poor, the hungry, the needy? Oh, who care?! We saved millions of babies). People forget that the last part of that sentence (We saved millions of babies..), would go like this: …in order to lead lives of alone-ness, displacement, confusion, etc.
When I see every family in every church starting to adopt at least one child (instead of birthing 8 themselves, because they think “go forth & multiply” is still an imperative), then maybe I will believe that they would do something more than just outlaw abortion.
People are too short sighted and selfish.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:32 am
RP and JT, your words are excellent. Great stuff.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Ya’lls points are very well taken. Most of us can do more to address this issue rather than just talk about it. Still, I’m just not comfortable taking the position that you kill kids you can’t match with a caretaker. If that’s our philosophy, why bother worrying about the genocide in Sudan. Lord knows their standard of living sucks.
September 30th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
This is what is so confusing to me about conservative Christian republicans who fight for the rights of the unborn but work to cut programs that are designed to help those same children be raised. It is easy to sit back in judgment and a whole other thing to step in and do something.
The pro-life argument only makes sense if you care for all life. Not just at the very beginning and the very end.
People want “their babies”. We have 7 adopted children in my immediate family. Adoption is great. You have a kid you love but does not necessarily look like you. My dark skinnned brother has a white daughter. It’s great when integration works the both directions. Our daughter is adopted and there are some tough things from her past that we deal with. I always think what her future would have been like in another home. I know that I am doing God’s work in that.
Also, if my wife had been conceived a few years later, she surely would have been aborted. That would have made her adoptive parent’s lives and mine much less joyful Another child would not have been as great as my wife. OK. I’m biased.
October 9th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Because most people don’t see killing an unborn baby in the womb the same as cutting off the head of a 12 year old. Not that I agree…just saying that your comparison of the two will not resonate with most people.
October 9th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Yeah, I had planned on just ignoring that statement because I find it rediculous. It makes me think of the Pro-Choice people who instantly argue that abortion should be legal to save the Mother who was raped and would die if she tried to birth the child. Arguing extremes is typically a waste of time.
I did have another thought: Why are all these so called Pro-Lifers voting Republican when there is a truely pro-life Constitution Party? Obviously the Const. Party doesn’t have a dog in the presidential race, but often…at least here in Oregon, one of my Dads friends are running for office on the Constitution Party Ticket. Help me out here.
October 9th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I get that one of the 10 commandments is Do Not Kill…but there’s a difference between “YOU Should Not Kill” and “YOU Should Attempt to Stop all others from Killing”. I don’t see God calling us to “Regulate the laws in an attempt to make society more Christian”…and I don’t see Jesus out doing anything about it either.
WOW - I guess this train of thought could have been used to not stop the NAZIs killing Jews too.
Ok, well it seems you have made a moral compromise in your mind. You like a Pro-Choice candidate and now you want to morally justify that choice.
I personally think that if you do not stop a crime when it is in your authority and ability you are also judged on that crime. Further-more If you vote to continue the crime then you are actively voting and participating in this crime.
October 9th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I’m not trying to resonate with most people. I’m trying to resonate with the implicit argument in this thread that abortion is murder but should be legal to prevent babies from leading lives of “alone-ness, displacement, confusion, etc.” Presumably, those making that argument acknowledge that in God’s eyes there is no difference between the poor ,12-year-old Sudanese boy and the poor, unborn baby.
I understand the position of people who say unborn life is not human life. I disagree, but at least that position acknowledges that killing babies is a bad thing. What I can’t wrap my head around is people who suggest abortion is unfortunate but should be allowed so “unwanted children” don’t become a burden to society.
That reasoning abandons the most elementary moral understandings that life had greater value than convenience. It is completely incomprehensible to me that it would be propogated by people who claim to be followers of Jesus.
Agreed, we must do a better job of taking care of widows and orphans. But some of you have the cart 1,000 miles in front of the horse.
October 9th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
My boyfriend often says it isn’t “pro-life”, it’s “pro-baby”. Because no one seems to care much after they are born.
October 9th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
The pro-life argument only makes sense if you care for all life. Not just at the very beginning and the very end.
If this is a slam on the death penalty I biblicaly disagree. Noah’s covenant in Gen: 9 is a 2 way covenant like all biblical covenants. Yes God will not flood the world again (or destroy it) but:
6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.
This is not a Covenant that was fulfilled by Christ and can be said it is “OT”. That would mean that God could flood the world again. No this is an ever lasting covenant and a biblical mandate for the death penalty for those who murder. We do find in the Mosaic law more defining that we should have 2 witnesses to punish someone this way.
I do not want to discuss how our system is broke. Yes we have too many convicts convicted on less then the biblical (2 witness) bar for conviction. Much can be done to fix our system. That being said there is a moral and biblical mandate to kill those who murder or have murdered.
October 9th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
There are many scriptures that relate to caring for the poor. Neither the church or the government are doing an effective job at it. I am not sure this is an either/or proposition. Can’t it be a both/and proposition. Plus there is no active way to actually eliminate abortion at this point. It is in the hands of the supreme court who should not be making their decisions based on popular opinion.
The
Why would that be any more true than any other child who is born?
October 10th, 2008 at 4:57 am
That’s such a silly argument. Who is unreasonable enough to believe that anyone would rather have never been born? Sure, there is misery and suffering in this world, but who are you to decide whether or not their quality of life would be good enough to justify their existence? That’s a slippery slope if I ever saw one…
October 10th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Right…so what are you doing to keep yourself from getting judged for the murder of millions of innocent baby’s? Cause from the sounds of it you seem to think that voting down the Republican Party line is enough…
For the record, I personally, have done more to stop abortion than John McCain and Sarah Palin put together…maybe you should vote for me instead.
That being said, I will restate my previous point which is this:
All Pro-Life voters who choose to make Abortion THE issue that determines their vote and therefore choose to vote Republican are complete suckers.
What I can’t wrap my head around is people who suggest that the Republican Party is going to do ANYTHING to end abortion.
It is completely incomprehensible to me that it would be propogated by people who claim to be followers of Jesus.
For shame suckers…for shame.
October 10th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Can I get an Amen!? Larry A. posted this great article on his facebook page. Thought I would share it. So far he’s got 75 responses in just a few hours. A hot topic for sure.
Can you be pro-life and support Senator Obama?
October 10th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Looked at the Pro-Life Obama page. It was a good site. No matter where I hear the stats from, the abortion stats are incredible.