I've become quite tired of the double talk that seems to be coming from religious right circles these days. Some of the stuff they are doing has gotten down right ridiculous and very hypocritical. Case and point: I just found this article by Roland Martin on CNN.com about a Christian bookstore that refused to carry the magazine GospelToday because it features female leaders, which they are opposed to.
"When the Atlanta, Georgia, entrepreneur (Teresa Hairston) decided to feature five female pastors on her cover this month, she says, Lifeway Christian Stores treated her like she had converted her Christian publication to something akin to the tastes of porn purveyor Larry Flynt. Apparently, the owner of Lifeway, the Southern Baptist Convention, wasn't too happy with Hairston telling the story of female pastors, because the women go against their 2000 decree that only men can serve in the role…"
However, Dr. Richard Land, President of the Southern Baptist Convention, has been very vocal in jumping all over the liberal media for acting sexiest against Sarah Palin (a woman in a leadership role). He recently said:
"I find these questions about ‘how can she take care of her children and be vice president’ sexist. Nobody asked that question to any of the male candidates. That’s a family decision. As long as she and her husband are comfortable with it and they seem to have done a wonderful job with the children they have, it’s nobody’s business."
And I'm not the only one asking these kind of questions. Sally Quinn of the Washington Post wonders the same thing. Can't they recognize how foolish this is?
I think Martin summed it up the best:
"Religious folks will quickly say that Scripture is clear that women can't be pastors and lead men, yet…I love it how these same Bible thumpers ignore the biblical story of Deborah, who was a judge in the Old Testament — and was over men. This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention."
Looks like sexism has become a big issue as of late…I found this one today as well:
Commentary: Sexist treatment of Palin must end
I’m not very familiar with Southern Baptists but this is what I heard on their position of women in leadership.
They don’t agree with women in church leadership positions such as elders or pastors (or main teaching roles). They are okay with women as deacons and other kinds of positions that are not main teaching roles. Some of these churches allow women to teach if they are under a male elder. Women are allowed to teach other women and children.
At the same time, they are perfectly okay with women in secular leadership roles such as business, government and leadership roles in the world.
I may be wrong. This is what I understood so far.
Yes, its foolish to pull away a magazine of a bookstore.
SBC’s hypocrisy regarding sexism is not surprising considering how slow and reluctant the denomination has been to embrace radical new ideals like women’s rights and racial equality.
The SBC split from other Baptists and was founded in 1845 to affirm slavery. It only recently renounced slavery in 1995.
I think Nina pointed out the distinction that clarifies this alleged hypocrisy.
Some folks (which apparently includes the SBC) believe that the office of elder is reserved for men.
Reformer, you’ll need to tell us why someone who believes that the “husband of one wife” does not include women must also believe women should be excluded from all leadership. That seems to be an unnecessary leap of logic.
In fact, it might have been appropriate to applaud the SBC for encouraging women to exercise their leadership skills even if they felt their conscience binds them to certain biblical truths. But giving them the benefit of the doubt makes no sense if you’re real goal is to hate on people who like Sarah Palin. End the obsession
Interesting that LifeWay, which is also a publisher, doesn’t mind raking in the dough generated by their female authors such as Beth Moore, whose Bible studies are popular with many denominations including the Baptists. We even taught some of her studies at former church which is Charismatic. She travels all around the country generating sales to women everywhere. And who buys the product? Women.
Ya, lets keep women in their place subservant to all men and husbands, guys–lets stay surpressed and in the dark ages. But Jesus, the greatest liberator of all women, the one whose name you use to keep women in their place, wasn’t and isn’t threatened by their presence or their successes.
It’s so obvious that the issue here is all about the power — who maintains control. If these blowhards want to speak for themselves, fine, but could they quit bloviating in the name of Jesus and Christianity? Wish those of us who have no issue with gender could sue for misrepresentation! We aren’t ALL narrowminded
idiotsexists.Detox, I could make a long list of false ideas, absurd advice, traditional values and garbage I’ve been told over the years from supposedly godly people claiming it’s biblical. Sometimes it’s actually about manipulation and control of others. Interestingly, when I ask the same person for the scripture or ask why it is biblical, the person gets very offended.
I was once told that men don’t like women that are intelligent or have passions, career interests and hobbies of their own. It seems that the role of women is to support their husbands calling. Is that really the type of man I want to marry – insecure, controlling, sexist, narrowminded?
Not all Christian men are like that. I’m meeting guys that are very much the opposite and not a clone of a church subculture. I’m dating an amazing guy. He respects and supports me in my own dreams, passions and interests. Likewise, I’d happily support him.
No leap of logic. Just complete confusion at how an organization can be so stupid. I first found the article about the bookstore banning a magazine because it featured women pastors and thought, "now that's an effing joke!" So that was all I was going to post at first. But then I read that the bookstore is owned by SBC, and I remembered that the SBC leader was very outspoken about supporting Palin. That made me think even more, "wow, this REALLY is an effing joke!"
So the hypocrisy I'm referring to is the fact that they believe it is not OK for a woman to be in leadership of some meaningless church (where no lasting harm could ever be done), but on the other hand believe that it is OK to have a woman in leadership of the most powerful country in the world (where lots of deep harm can be done). That kind of stupidity makes my head spin. Women are capable of pastoring a church just as much as they are capable of leading this country and anyone who disagrees is a sexiest bigot. (Sorry you couldn't connect the dots – not trying to be over your head or anything).
As De-Tox said it must really be about power and control. Deep down they probably don't really care about women in church leadership roles, they just want to control them because it helps the good ol boy network stay at the top of their backwards organization, and this is how they found a way to do it.
Nina said:
Hi Nina,
Hopefully you got the gist of what I was saying that not all Christian men are sexist bigots. But concerning those who ARE, lately I’ve been wishing that there was a special planet made just for them (and their enabling wives). Then they could all relocate and have their own cloistered culture and therefore do no more damage to Jesus’ true and original intent. They seem to be undermining the purpose of Christianity by sending the world wrong messages.
BTW, it’s really great that you are dating someone who is interested in getting to know you as the person you are rather than sizing you up to fit certain Stepford Wife criteria.
Whoever told you that was probably an MFI pastor wife who revelled in her powerful position next to her top-dog husband. As you already said it’s about supporting one another and the Bible talks about submitting one to another which, I can testify, is one of the keys to a long, healthy relationship. So it’s certainly not all about the little woman making the huz happy and successful, rather how can the husband and wife give support to each other.
I’ve heard Christian young men say the exact opposite of what you were once told. They don’t want to marry a woman who doesnt’ have dreams and passions of her own and would love it if she were both beautiful AND intelligent. (yes, they want it ALL!) Part of that could be because in today’s world, more than ever, a woman needs to contribute to the household financially in some way or other. In some cases only 1 income is needed but of course, it all depends on what the mutual goals are, etc. No matter what though, there’s something very compelling about a woman who understands the balance of life and that her husband isn’t the only source of fulfillment.
Whoever told you the OTHER thing could have been speaking from her/his experiences that worked well in a different era perhaps, like the 50′s or 60′s, and longs for things to be that way again.
Reformer said:
And that is only because she is known to share a similar world view and political view. The right wing has been fading into the woodwork lately and Palin is their ticket back into the limelight. WHY ELSE would our former MFI pastor weep for joy when she was announced (Dutch Sheets did the same!)
However, the Baptists in particular should take a look at where she goes to church - or went to church till 2 years ago! I would think they’d get hung up on the Pentecostal thing!!
And what about this: As we all know, the McCain camp had to upstage the Obama camp big time with their choice of VP not only because of Obama but because of Hillary’s popularity. Palin being a conservative woman who also has the charisma factor certainly took the wind out of their collective sails there for awhile. What hot-blooded conservative Baptist man could resist THAT?? (just as long as Sarah doesn’t have to run his church!) OH, JUST A THOUGHT: HOW MUCH YA WANNA BET THAT THE SBC REGARDS THE OFFICE OF VP AS A WIFELY ROLE BECAUSE IT’S SECONDARY SO IT’S OK FOR A WOMAN TO BE IN IT?!
How about a PBC’er priming up for that stepford wife position? Surprisingly, she was 24 at that time and she gave me that “advice”. Yes, some people live in an alternate reality.
During my late teen and early college age years, I received stupid advice that I struggled with for many years before realizing how absurd it really was. Back then, I was an impressionable new Christian. Being young and a bit naive, I was too trusting towards these MFI church ladies or pastors. I was very confused. I wanted to do the right things. I was made to think that ALL Christians were like that. Now that I’m older and wiser I know better. It’s even better when I left that circle.
I was only talking about the Christian men that ARE sexist bigots living in their own alternate universe and reflecting on some of my early years.
I got the gist of your message. I am well aware that many Christian men are NOT sexist bigots. Like I said, I’m dating an amazing guy. I’ve formed friendships with godly men who are like brothers in Christ. All of them are very much the opposite and reflect Jesus in their attitudes and behavior towards women.
Can I disagree with their position but not think they are necessarily sexist bigots?
I dont know. Here’s an example
Can you disagree with a person who believes that generally African-American/black men are disrespectful towards their women and not think they are racist bigots?
Believe it or not, I have heard comments like even from educated people and from a charismatic zealot that felt her calling was to minister to the inner city.
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No. Its much better to assume the worst about a persons motives. Otherwise, what reason would I have to feel superior to them. Sure, you could ask clarifying questions and ask them why they believe the things they do. But that opens the door to understanding. And its much more difficult to feel superior to people you understand.
[Comment ID #35160 Will Be Quoted Here]
Of course. Point taken.
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Granted, the term sexist bigot may be an extreme handle to place upon those who are revealing their double standard. I’m sure the degree of their sexist bigotry could vary if measured on a scale from 1-10.
However, I beg to differ when you infer that this is about a need to feel superior to them. It’s just one type of Christian speaking out against another type of Christian’s PUBLIC comments. You know, it’s political. In other words, why is ok for the Southern Baptist dude to have an opinion only?