While millions may lose their homes during the worst housing slump since the Great Depression, some devout Christians among them will do so in part because they will not give up tithing — a voluntary contribution to their churches amounting to 10% of their gross income. You know my take, I think this is great. If you continue to tithe in the face of economic troubles, then you deserve to be poor. Homelessness is God's punishment for tithing.
"I've had home owners who face foreclosure sitting in front of me saying, 'I'll do anything, anything to keep my home," said Ozell Brooklin, director of Acorn Housing in Atlanta, a nonprofit which offers foreclosure counseling.
"But after we've gone through their monthly expenses and the only thing left to cut is their tithe, they say 'I guess this home is not for me' and they walk away," he said.
But if I tithe, I won’t lose my house….RIGHT???
Chris sends in this interesting article in USA Today about home-owners who face foreclosure, but still continue to tithe.
On the one hand, this is certain proof that all of the numerous promises from tithing churches that God would provide “blessing” to those who tithe is utter garbage.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t say it’s God’s punishment, I think we should leave Him out of this. It’s not fair to blame God for your own stupidity. That’s like blaming God for a broken nose when you repeatedly smack yourself in the face with a hammer. As the old joke goes, “Doc, it hurts when I do this.” “Then stop doing that.”
I once read somewhere that the definition of insanity is “doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result”. Tithers who continue to tithe in spite of losing everything sound remarkably insane.
[Comment ID #35150 Will Be Quoted Here]
Tithing is proof that you trust almighty god,so Belteshazzar tithing is not utter garbage,but it’s a sign that you trust god and that you are a very obedient servant of almighty god.
Agreed. I was being facetious.
Not true. But whatever. If you’re stupid enough to actually believe that, then you deserve to be poor.
I fixed it for you.
If you actually understood what a “tithe” is, then you’d know that giving 10% to your church is not a tithe.
Why do you oppose tithe cat?
What are your base views on it?
If you want to “give” to your church, I think that’s a good thing. You can give in many different ways, and money is certainly one of those ways.
However, if you’re struggling to pay your bills. Or struggling to pay back a loan you borrowed. Something you gave your word you would pay back. And yet, you continue to tithe, then I think you are immoral.
Tithing is not the sign that you are obedient it can be a sign. God can honor people’s faithfulness in giving even if their understanding is a bit faulty. Yes, they will still lose their house but God can show up and bless in other ways.
I did not read the article, so I have no idea what craziness is being said in it by Christians. I simply think it is a bit prideful to mock anyone who believes that God honors their giving because they believe in the tithe.
Or maybe I am reacting to the fact that if people disagree they get attacked and called stupid when their statements were not rude.
Poster A: Lasagna is a great food. It may not be the healthiest food but it is mighty tasty and goes well with garlic bread.”
Poster B: “I disagree. Lasagna is not a good food. Monkee brains are the best food on the planet.”
Poster A: “Well, if you like monkey brains you are an idiot who can continue to eat disgusting food that no one likes and you can’t find in regular grocery stores.”
Often that is what it sounds like to me.
Fred,
If you’re here to debate the preference of tithing on this blog, you need to read up some more as to why we’re blogging about it all. If it was a preference, we’d be wasting our time.
But it’s clear that in cases like the one mentioned above, that many who do teach tithing do so in a manner that fits the OT Law. These people are not “free” to give as they are able. They are in legalistic bondage to Mosaic rules that were the equivalent of the Jewish tax system. They believe it completely despite misunderstanding it, and pastors and preachers condemn and judge those who don’t obey, and in the end the people who tithe become slaves to a system that Christ abolished on the Cross. There are many arguments against tithing, and you can start here:
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/
The most infuriating part of this is the tremendous DENIAL of those who defend the practice in spite of the obvious. In this case, people are losing their homes because they refuse to stop giving to the church. How does that make any sense at all? The advocates of the tithe promise God’s blessing, and when it doesn’t come they excuse it by saying that it was God’s will to bless them in a different way. How is being homeless and bankrupt a blessing? In what crazy world does that sound like a good idea?
So when I say you’re being “dumb” for tithing despite the impending loss of your home or a looming bankruptcy, I mean it. You’re being willfully blind to the fact that if you can’t take of yourself and your own family, you are hurting the Church body. You are just as important and valuable as any member of the Body, including your pastor. It doesn’t even make fiscal sense to a church for a pastor to insist you give 10% when that 10% could possibly put you on the road to a financial recovery that would end up allowing you to give freely again. If you’re ruined by refusing to give up tithing, how can the church ever expect you to contribute at the same level you did before? Any pastor who insists on his share first in these situations is shooting himself in the foot, just to satisfy a rule.
The problem with all of this is that no holds pastors accountable for promising blessings and then dismissing anything but positive results. They fleece the sheep while knowing that the sheep will never have wool again if they continue to fleece. And they wonder whey their members are poor and struggling. This “me first” attitude is appalling and a terrible blight on the church. I think this might even be one of those times that Jesus talked about when he mentioned it would be better to hang a heavy weight around your neck and jump into the sea. I would not want to stand between them and God on judgment day.
You’ve got me fired up now. Can you tell?
Belteshazzar,
I used lasagna and monkey brains because lasagna is my favorite food and monkey brains showed up on a top 10 disgusting foods list. My point isn’t about the correctness of the doctrine. There are plenty of good baptist folks who have not been taught the prosperity gospel who believe in tithing. I think that at times it is fine to respect people’s principals even if they are misguided. I have mentioned before even in my “don’t rob God” MFI church, people were always counseled to pay their mortgage, utilities and put food on the table before worrying about the tithe. So, I am with you. I think there is a better way to communicate the information. Unless this site is simply about the preaching to the choir.
Tithing is an irrelevent action. You cannot purchase God’s blessing with money! Acts 8:20, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!”
If you desire Christ’s presence in your life, do what He said to do. Matthew 28:19-20. John 14:21, 23. Read through the gospels and see what He actually said to do, especially Matthew 5 and 6 where Christ tells us, “I say”.
God the Father tells us to listen to Jesus. Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7, Luke 9:35. When God Himself repeats something three times, it is a good idea to act on it!
See what Jesus has to say about ‘leaders’ in the NT. Matthew 23:10 (NASB) “And do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is Christ.”
I’m running a blog, not a church, not a debate club, a blog. And one of the rules of blogging is to write with a strong voice. Hence the strong language in the post.
That said, I do think it’s pretty silly to believe that God will honor you for tithing.
Got it Cat.
What a shame. Makes me sad that so many people buy into something without doing any reasearch on it themselves. I was there once too and beat myself up over it all the time. I wish I would have thought for myself more back then instead of blindly following whatever my supposed “leaders” told me. I’m just going to keep praying that God rescues more and more people out of this mindset.
…and for anything else that is considered a “good” work. God don’t care about that stuff. Christ did the only good work we needed when He went to the cross. Everything we do to earn God’s honor is insignificant garbage. He wants our hearts not our actions. Do your good works for you and for others who you want to serve, but leave God’s honor out of it.
So, God does not honor anything we do? There are many scriptures in both OT and NT that describe God blessing/honoring/positevley acknowledging people’s actions. I am not talking about prosperity stuff. There are many examples in the scriptures of God rewarding certain behaviors and punishing others. I’m not sure why grace eliminates that.
[Tithers who continue to tithe in spite of losing everything sound remarkably insane.] Belteshazzar.
Well, they are people who have been taught that they will basically lose their salvation if they don’t tithe, not just lose God’s blessing. It may not be spoken literally as such from the pulpits, but that’s the underlying message: you lose favor with God. Which is the same message about having to attend church every time the doors are open in order to have favor with God. Forget that the grace of God is His UNMERITED favor towards us as believers through the sacrifice of Christ.
Under the Old Covenant, the tithe was a REQUIREMENT to maintain their right standing with God as was the bringing of an animal sacrifice for the shedding of blood, providing redemption for sin. Going to the Temple was also a Mosaic requirement under the Old Covenant. Praise God, now ALL the Law is fullfilled IN CHRIST, period. In having relationship with Him, period. To say then, that we still must DO this or DO that to please God and have favor with Him is truly shunning the sacrifice and power of Christ on the cross. He IS all we need, period.
Personally, I am not saying that we MUST or HAVE to do anything, but God does recognize what we have done.
Let me give you a few life examples. I ask my 13 year old to help pay for certain things we buy for him. Where does he get the money? From allowance. Who gives him the allowance money. I do. When I ask for him to pay $30 for the $350 basketball camp. I don’t need his money. In the end, I the entire $350 is coming out of my pocket. It doesn’t mean that I am not proud that he saves up the money to get to camp and that I am not disappointed when he does not save up the money. It doesn’t affect my love for him. He still has a roof over his head, food on his plate and plenty of affection. OR, my kids don’t need to get great grades for me to love them. Yet, I am pleased when they do well.
Is God that different on this?
John 8:29 Christ did what pleased the Father
Acts 20:7 Moses was pleasing to God
Rom 8:1-8 Carnal attitudes put one at odds with God. Being spiritually minded brings life and peace.
1 Cor 7:32 Discusses how a single man thinks about he can please God.
I could go on. My point is that there are grounds to believe that things we do or don’t do can please God. Why can’t God’s pleasure with my actions guide my actions? It is not a slippery slope to works and legalism if one acts out of his/her own will, not compulsion or guilt.
YES!!! If you are going broke, you need to take care of your family before giving to the church. I am currently unemployed and cut my giving way back.
Fred, there’s a difference between “pleasing God” and “receiving financial blessing because you tithe”. I’m never going to criticize people for giving freely as they are able, as long as they understand that they do so without compunction or expectation. If you tithe/give because you feel you must, that’s wrong. If you tithe/give because you hope or expect God to pay you back, that’s wrong, too.
In the NT, there is no place for giving that promotes compunction or expectation. People were simply asked to give, and God received glory. Even in the story of Ananias and Sapphira, they were perfectly free to give as much or little as they wanted. Paul often praised those who worked hard to meet the needs of others, but he never promised them material blessings for doing so. In fact, Jesus and the Apostles warned us that we would often face hardship of many kinds. It’s God’s grace and mercy that get us through them, not some Heavenly bank account which tithers get to draw from when they need it.
It sounds like this topic hit close to home. I personally don’t think you should be giving at all. A good pastor, knowing you were unemployed, would return your gift until you got a job again. A better pastor would also ask what the church can do to help you until you’re employed again. Isn’t that what churches are for: to make sure everyone is taken care of?
I never said in any of the posts that God would financially provide or bless. In fact, I made a point of saying that when I said honor/acknowledge I did not mean in a prosperity gospel type of way. So, you are not responding to what I actually said.
I am not giving out of compulsion but because I want to. I do appreciate your position on this. For my wife and I giving, in all its forms, is a value. No matter what our situation, we will find a way to give, even if it is not money. Since I have been unemployed, our giving is mostly to our missionary and parachurch friends. We feel great about what we are giving and it is nowhere near 10%.
Yes, the church should reach out to those who are unemployed and in need. We recently moved and I don’t have a regular church at the moment. Thus no one is really clued into my situation. As stated implied before, I am giving to support on-going ministry to the lost/new believers, not for a bigger plasma screen for the overflow room. We have some money stashed away. I would love to be using that money for other things, but we are fine for now. I joked with my mom the other day, we are not at the end of the road, but I can see it from here.
We’ll be praying for you Fred. If I was caught up in a situation like that I would feel comfortable talking to my pastor about how much I should give.
I feel very blessed to be in the church I am in because the pastors and elders are very much a part of the people’s life. We have easily 400 people, but each person is secure in knowing that our pastor is easily reachable and cares about their life. It truly speaks of servant leadership. Even if a person is not directly discipled by the pastor they are always able to reach them.
I say all this because in this intimate setting everyone feels safe to tithe and give, often more than 10%, without fear of the money being squandered or hoarded greedily by power hungry leaders. We know it is used to help the church, the community, various missions in Kenya and switzerland, as well as any member who needs aid. We recently took an offering for a couple who were struggling with medical bills and employment issues.
I believe in the tithe. I believe in abundant giving. I even don’t mind it being preached from the pulpit. But I believe that to create an atmosphere for giving you need to create an atmosphere of trust and love. The congregation’s trust can’t be taken, it must be received. In all the NT examples the people fell in love with the Lord, and the apostles, and embraced the vision they had been given. That is why they were able to give their all for it.
Thanks Jaspercreel.
I have an interview tomorrow. The job is 40 minutes away (was 10) and pays less than I was being paid before but it is the kind of work I like to do. BTW, my wife got a fat raise for the job we moved here for. So, once I do find work, we will be ahead of the game. Kids can start getting allowance again. I need some leverage ya’ know.
Fred…my “tithe” goes to people in real need. If you ever hit a serious financial struggle, please email me. reformer.for.change@gmail.com
I just want to second, Reformer’s offer. I don’t tithe. But I do try to give to people when I can, so good luck on the job interview, and if you ever need financial help, please let me know. I’m more than happy to help: email -justin.morton(at)gmail.com
Regarding pleasing God in our ways of loving others, or giving, or anything else, I often think that we put the cart before the horse, so to speak. When we try to please God by doing something, even though we are well-intentioned, it still can become an effort of the flesh instead of the Spirit. It’s when we recognize that the only thing that pleases God is Christ, and then recognize that it is Him living in and through us, that THIS ALONE can and does please the Father. When we approach our walk in Christ in that way, then we naturally will do what pleases the Father because we are living out Romans 8:5-11:
“For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”
And, He came that we might have Life, and that more abundantly…and that, in Him, our joy will be made full…and, His yoke is easy, His burden light. Whenever this is no longer our experience, we have probably forgotten who we are and our freedom in Christ, and become entangled again with a yoke of bondage (Galatians 5:1). Does this mean we will walk around all the time saying “hallelujah!” Probably not (but it couldn’t hurt!) But, we will know in our heart of hearts the Peace that passes all understanding, and He will be our All in All.