Are Conservatives Turning?

Over the last few days I have read an increasing number of conservative blogs, magazines, and news articles in support of Barack Obama.  Here are a few:

     The New Republic magazine: The New Right?

     The American Conservative: The Right Choice?

     Dallas Magazine: A Conservative For Obama

     Republicans for Obama: Why Obama?

     National Review: The Palin Problem

As I have expressed before I was a registered republican and voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004.  However, sometime in 2005 I realized that it is more important to vote the people then the party.  And since Bush has completely crushed my confidence in the republican party, I've become an Obama supporter.

I believe this election is coming down to who can better "fix America."  If you read some of these articles, it seems like conservatives are feeling the same way and crossing party lines because Obama has presented a better plan.  The typical moral issues seem less important this time around because of the state of our country and the fact that George Bush ran on that platform, yet very little changed.  McCain is loosing votes by not separating himself.  By continuing to say he's a "maverick" but then sticking to many of the Bush policies, middle ground voters will never back him.  If McCain wants the white house he has to show people he is different, something he has failed at thus far.

72 thoughts on “Are Conservatives Turning?

  1. Reformer, I think you are right on. We may be witnessing the largest shift of political alignment in a long time. McCain has not cogently convinced the public that he is not a “McSame,” and neither has Palin convinced me that there is something in her head remotely close to a brain. Did she even answer any questions last night? The standard was set so low for her, all she had to do was speak coherently…

    Back to your point though, I think Christians are beginning to realize that Republican politics are not “Christian” at all… but simply politics done in a way that tries to lend itself auspiciously to the Evangelical concept of a duty-fulling life, whereby one votes to have a better conscious, not to actually change anything.

    Go Obama!

  2. I think that both republican and democrat parties in general are losing their identity. Sometimes they are not much different from each other. I am conservative but would not call myself a republican.

    Republican doesnt necesarily mean Christian and yet I’m running into people that judge a person’s faith by that. This includes pastors. Most people I meet are moderate or in the middle. Among the general population, I dont think too many people are on the extreme ends of republican or democrat.

  3. C.T.P. said: I think Christians are beginning to realize that Republican politics are not “Christian” at all… but simply politics done in a way that tries to lend itself auspiciously to the Evangelical concept of a duty-fulling life, whereby one votes to have a better conscious, not to actually change anything.

    This is so well put…right on!

    Nina said: Republican doesnt necesarily mean Christian and yet I’m running into people that judge a person’s faith by that. This includes pastors.

    Me too, all the time. I’ve been talking to a pastor based out of New York through facebook that associates Christianity with republican. No matter what I say, he can’t separate the two. He’s gone as far as suggesting that Obama is Muslim/Anti-America. This is a pastor! Republican/Christian has intermingled so much that people don’t even know where the line is. To make matters worse most of these people don’t even understand what true conservativism is anymore. Those who do are leaving the party.

  4. Have you REALLY considered what Obama believes in his heart regarding things.. he is NOT a conservative.. he is extremely liberal. He is the polar opposite of what we have had in Bush the last 8 years. Yes.. it is time for a change… but to run in the total opposite direction is not the answer. Yes, Obama has an engaging personality… so did wendell smith back in the day when many of us got sucked into his schemes and rushes of emotionalism. You think the US has headed to hell in a handbasket the last 8 years…. Obama sure is NOT gonna lead us in a right direction I sure don’t think. He’ll definitely lead us in a different direction, but definitely not one of good for the American public and definitely not one with much shred of moral fiber to it.

    It is sad indeed to see you 30-somethings/40-somethings being like the frog put in a pot of cold water on a red hot burner….

  5. I’m with you Living Life! I don’t know where the reformer gets his news, but I and everyone I know are voting republican. As my republican mother used to tell my democrat dad, “No use wasting your time going down there to vote, I’m just gonna cancel it out! ”

    Obama’s religious cronys are enough to scare the heck out of me, let alone his socialist leaning politics.

  6. Just Curious, I don’t know where you live, but if you live in Oregon, or Washington, your vote is not going to make one bit of difference because all of the electoral votes will be for Obama. Sorry to “go there,” but it is what it is.

    For what it’s worth, I know very few people voting for McCain, believers and unbelievers alike. How refreshing from so many years, when I only associated with Republicans.

    Think what you will, Living Life; I’m not voting for Obama because of his “engaging personality,” and no one else I know who’s voting for him is doing so on those grounds. There are many, many reasons why I’m voting for Obama, and voting against McCain, and they’re all much more substantive than that. By the way, why is “the polar opposite” of Bush a bad thing? Pray tell.

    Just Curious, I’m sincerely curious as to why you say that the direction Obama would lead the country would have “no shred of moral fiber to it”?? Please explain that. I’m honestly curious, because I see it quite differently.

    Reformer, I think it’s wonderful that so many conservative thinkers and pundits are admitting that Palin is over her head, and, even more importantly, that Obama is the right choice this election!

  7. No conservative or true Republican would vote for Obama. He is the most liberal candidate to ever be nominated by a major political party. His idea of a Supreme Court justice should by itself be reason enough not to vote for him.

  8. His idea of a Supreme Court justice should by itself be reason enough not to vote for him.

    What is his idea of a Supreme Court Justice? I’ve been following Obama for two years now, and I don’t know the answer to that question.

    And after the last eight years of Republican control, I am eager for a liberal competent President.

  9. No conservative or true Republican would vote for Obama.

    What the hell kind of stupid statement is that? “No TRUE Republican would vote for Obama”… that’s right, damn it, and if you are going to vote for Obama you might as well just register democratic…cause we don’t want you.

  10. [Comment ID #35274 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Well then I’m in a bind, because no true conservative would vote for McCain either.. only a practitioner of our current pseudo-conservative Republican doctrines would vote for a McCain. If you want true conservative, you should have voted for Ron Paul.

    I’m not voting for Obama as much as I am voting against McCain, who is very far from a true conservative in either social or economic issues. No conservative would’ve lobbied for a congressional bailout of Wall St.. the government meddling in market economics is very liberal and socialist, yet your dear Republican, conservative President crafted the bill while your ever-dearer conservative Republican Presidential nominee led the charge for it to be passed in Congress.

    McCain looks more liberal than Obama from where I stand.

  11. While I can understand a protest vote against McCain, electing Obama could cause irrevocable damage to your 1st and 2nd amendment rights.

    If you truly love and believe in America and don’t believe we need to become a European style socialist state, you will do whatever it takes to prevent Obama from becoming president even if that means voting for McCain.

    The fact is either Obama or McCain wil be elected on November 4th, that is your choice. Please don’t vote for Obama and let America become a fascist state.

  12. [Comment ID #35289 Will Be Quoted Here]

    That is simply unsupported fear-mongering. Can’t you see that your whole argument is rooted in fear? You’re afraid of Obama and you want everyone else to be afraid of Obama, too.

    Can you cite any factual information to back up your claims that electing Obama would do “irrevocable damage to my 1st and 2nd amendment rights”?

    Can you cite anything to prove that we’d become a “European style socialist state” under Obama any more than we would under McCain? What makes McCain less of a socialist; the fact that he’s Republican? He’s the one with a healthcare plan that would cost Americans MORE than Obama’s, he’s the one lobbying for Congressional control of the markets, and he seems to be for just as strong of a central government as that scourge of humanity named Obama. And if you really believe that America the great isn’t already well along the way to becoming a socialist state, then you need to take a step back and look at the state of your dear country today.

    Everything you’ve said is pure hyperbole.

  13. Yes, Andrey I’m scared of Obama and so should you and every other American.

    1. Obama’s foreign policy is dangerous and naive.

    2. Obama is against drilling for oil both on and offshore.

    3. Obama’s economic policies are pure income redistribution.

    4. Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate according to the non partisan National Journal. You want a leftist president with a majority Democratic congress? Maybe you are too young to remember the Carter years.

    5. Obama is the most pro abortion candidate to ever be nominated for president.

    6. Obama thinks it is ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws and endorsed Illinois handgun ban and voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

    7. On numerous occasions during this campaign, Obama has sought to silence his critics. Many of his supporters verge on fascism in trying to ban all criticism of Obama.

    McCain may not be my ideal candidate, but anyone who is conservative, libertarian, or even moderate has no choice but to vote for him.

  14. 1. Obama’s foreign policy is dangerous and naive.

    You mean pulling our troops out of Iraq and avoiding war with Iran. That’s called effective and competent foreign policy.

    2. Obama is against drilling for oil both on and offshore.

    Not true. He supports a comprehensive energy plan that includes more drilling, more fuel efficient cars, and a stronger pursuit of other alternative fuels.

    3. Obama’s economic policies are pure income redistribution.

    Again, not true. Those making over $250,000 will see slightly higher taxes. And since we have a 10 Trillion dollar deficit that is reducing the value of our dollar and thus causing higher gas prices, someone has to pay more in taxes, so again, I’m okay with this.

    4. Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate according to the non partisan National Journal. You want a leftist president with a majority Democratic congress? Maybe you are too young to remember the Carter years.

    After the last eight years of conservative rule, I am more than happy to give liberals a chance.

    5. Obama is the most pro abortion candidate to ever be nominated for president.

    Maybe he is. I don’t know. But after the last eight years of Bush, I just don’t care that much about abortion anymore.

    6. Obama thinks it is ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws and endorsed Illinois handgun ban and voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

    Good. It’s way too easy to get a gun in this country.

    7. On numerous occasions during this campaign, Obama has sought to silence his critics. Many of his supporters verge on fascism in trying to ban all criticism of Obama.

    All candidates do this. It’s called running a successful campaign. Bush did this very well, hence he got elected twice.

    If after the last eight years, you don’t see the need for change in this country. Than I don’t know what to tell you.

  15. 1. Obama’s foreign policy is dangerous and naive.

    Unquantified. How so? Because he’s open to dialogue without preconditions with Iran? Maybe he’s on to something; maybe we need to stop acting like the world’s police force. Personally, I’m more of an isolationist.

    2. Obama is against drilling for oil both on and offshore.

    Why do you think we stopped drilling oil in America in the first place? I’ll give you a hint – foreign oil was becoming cheaper than American. Chances are, that’s still the case. Either way it’d take 10+ years to find out.

    3. Obama’s economic policies are pure income redistribution.

    I’m against income taxes period and think they’re unconstitutional (like much of what the federal government does today), but I’d rather the rich be taxed more than the poor.

    4. Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate according to the non partisan National Journal. You want a leftist president with a majority Democratic congress? Maybe you are too young to remember the Carter years.

    You want a right-wing president with a majority Republican congress? Maybe you are too young to remember the Bush years.

    5. Obama is the most pro abortion candidate to ever be nominated for president.

    Well, it is legal.

    6. Obama thinks it is ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws and endorsed Illinois handgun ban and voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

    So you think that areas that are overrun with gun problems and gang violence shouldn’t be allowed to control the problem? I know it’s the 2nd Amendment, but we live in a different time where frankly, the 2nd amendment isn’t quite as relevant as it once was. I don’t think the founding fathers would be opposed to certain gun bans in today’s America.

    7. On numerous occasions during this campaign, Obama has sought to silence his critics. Many of his supporters verge on fascism in trying to ban all criticism of Obama.

    On numerous occasions during this campaign, McCain has sought to silence his critics. Many of his supporters verge on fascism in trying to ban all criticism of McCain. It’s called politics.

  16. Andrey, If you don’t believe the founding fathers would still support the 2nd amendment than you are certainly no conservative and should by all means vote for Obama. If you think Roe V Wade is valid constitutional law, then yes you should vote for Obama. If you are that naive about foreign policy and energy than yes Obama should be your man.

    In other words, I have no reason to try and change your mind.

    My arguments are strictly for conservatives and those that believe in the U.S. Constitution.

  17. Brandon your ‘arguments’ are nothing more than personal opinions. You make statements but cant explain it. Can you back it up with more facts and specifics? Otherwise others cant take you seriously or find it difficult to engage in a discussion.

    Of course you are entitled to your own opinion and your opinions are valid but everyone should know how to back it up their opinions with facts.

  18. Obama’s foreign policy is dangerous??? I thought crazy right-wing Republicans had the dangerous foreign policy… it’s called “we have the right to establish to U.S. economic market anywhere in the world and we will oppose (or call them terrorists) anyone who does not support our countries financial prosperity” – that sounds pretty dangerous to me…

    If you support McCain then you support the perpetuation of U.S. imperialism and developing world exploitation.

    Go Obama! U.S., we need to stop ruling the world, they are sick of it… and wait the entire world wants Obama to win… that’s funny? And wait, last time I checked Obama’s support comes from intellectuals and educated citizens, and, wait, McCain’s support comes from racist bigots and naive Christians.

    P.S. Sarah Palin is the stupidest person I have ever seen on TV… worse than Bush and Brittney… she didn’t even know what the F-ing Bush Doctrine was…. WTF?

  19. Just Curious said: I’m with you Living Life! I don’t know where the reformer gets his news, but I and everyone I know are voting republican.

    And this doesn’t sound a little alarming to you? Reason being, cults are filled with people who all think the same too. I’ve always been taught that if all your friends think like you do, then you don’t have enough friends. People who live diverse lives are people who have a wide range of friends, who challenge them on their way of thinking. But at least you are coming to this blog to see how the other side thinks…which is a good thing.

    my little pony said: Just Curious, I don’t know where you live, but if you live in Oregon, or Washington, your vote is not going to make one bit of difference because all of the electoral votes will be for Obama. Sorry to “go there,” but it is what it is.

    Exactly. I don’t think enough people understand the electoral college. It’s the only reason why George Bush got elected in 2000. As of right now, the only states where votes really matter are Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Colorado and Nevada. Those are key swing states that are 50/50 right now. Whoever wins them, wins the election. Everything else is either solidly Obama (Oregon, Washington, California, New York, etc.) or solidly McCain (Texas, Idaho, Georgia, Oklahoma, etc.)

    Andrey Bolkonsky said: McCain looks more liberal than Obama from where I stand.

    Exactly! That’s the point of this post that some of our republican readers missed. Some conservatives are choosing Obama because McCain is looking more liberal on the economy then he is. As I’ve stated before, people who support McCain have a valid argument on abortion and gay rights…however, they stand no chance of winning on any other topic.

    brandon said: 5. Obama is the most pro abortion candidate to ever be nominated for president.

    Be honest with yourself Brandon…this is all you really care about, right?

    brandon said: 6. Obama thinks it is ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws and endorsed Illinois handgun ban and voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

    Now I’m confused…think about this…you think its wrong for the states to determine local guns laws and the government should stay out of people’s rights to bare arms, BUT you think the states should determine local abortion laws and the government should step in and tell women what do with their bodies??? That doesn’t add up to me.

  20. Bishop C.T.P. said:
    October 6th, 2008 at 9:24 am

    Obama’s foreign policy is dangerous??? I thought crazy right-wing Republicans had the dangerous foreign policy… it’s called “we have the right to establish to U.S. economic market anywhere in the world and we will oppose (or call them terrorists) anyone who does not support our countries financial prosperity” – that sounds pretty dangerous to me…

    Tell that to the families of the people that were working in the twin towers on 9-11. Was that not a terrorist attack or were they just people that don’t support our countries financial prosperity? That’s what sounds dangerous to me. Being that far to the left about our countries position in the world is equally just as crazy and naive. Lets meet somewhere in the middle.

  21. Yes Bishop it is naive, Obama stated that he would negotiate with Iran, “without preconditions,” and within his first year of office. In his own words he stated, “If we think that meeting with the president is a privilege that has to be earned, I think that reinforces the sense that we stand above the rest of the world at this point in time.” Hillary Clinton called his foreign policy, “irresponsible and frankly naive.”

    Reformer, yes abortion is a big issue with me and Obama may have the chance to appoint up to 3 Supreme Court justices, but it is not the only issue.

    I believe in Constitutional government. The right to bare arms is in the constitution. The right to kill an unborn child is not in the constistution.

  22. Brandon, I’m curious. If Bush could run for a 3rd term, would you vote for him over Obama as well?

    Personally, the tipping point for my support of Obama is Sarah Palin. John McCain doesn’t do much for me as far as policy goes, but Governor Palin in a position of power terrifies me. McCain is not in the greatest of health, and if he were to become President and have a health issue, our country’s leader would be a woman completely unable and unqualified to do the job. Frankly, she’s not qualified to be a White House intern let alone be the President or Vice President. It would be a national embarrassment if we elected a woman with no qualifications and who is considered to have a “good debate” when she refuses to answer questions and can’t articulate her own party’s platform and past policies beyond some empty talking points about mavericks and “watch and see how well we lead”. A huge part of a president’s effectiveness is the people he surrounds himself with, and Palin is a glaring example of why McCain and company are not fit to lead this country.

  23. If Bush could run for a 3rd term, I’d vote for him over Obama. Don’t get me wrong I’m not a defender of the Bush administration. With the exception of protecting the country from another terror attack, the Bush administration has been an utter failure.

    But Obama’s idea of America is scary. Please read Mark Levin’s latest article in National Review:

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2I0ZjFjY2NjMjk5NTBlYTQ2MGQ5NjY3NzY5OWI4NzY=

  24. L vs. T… yes, of course the 9-11 attacks were a terrorist attack, but what about U.S. actions? What about the Philippines, Greece, Panama City in ’90, Vietnam? Is not the C.I.A. the largest terrorist organization in the world? Can we justify a war against a country that never attacked us? Did not Iran vote in favor does nuclear disarmament in the middle east? Who didn’t vote for it? The U.S. Why? Because we are not fighting terror, we are fighting to establish U.S. hegemony in the world and we will use whatever means to justify our military actions.

    This is the double standard: violent action against the U.S. = terror, violent action from the U.S. = justifiable military action.

  25. [Comment ID #35310 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I really don’t get this…what is the obsession with his associations? I know supporters of McCain have little traction here, so they are grasping at needles in the haystack to attack Obama, but it really holds no weight. I’m very middle ground and am very open to quality arguments against Obama, but simply telling me that he has bad friends, isn’t going to change my mind that he would be a better president then McCain.

    I mean what do these people think? Is he somehow going to sneak all his Muslim, terrorist buddies into the white house and they are going to plant bombs all over America? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? Do you understand how our system is set up? It’s called checks and balances. No one person or group has enough power to demolish our freedoms under the Constitution. Even Bush had to get Congresses’ approval before sending troops to Iraq. Do you actually think Obama will have enough power to override Congress and The Supreme Court to implement his devilish plan to take down America? What a bunch of fear-mongering garbage. All the more reason to stay away from the McSame / Failin ticket. If they were smart they would try to convince the American people they can fix the economic mess the Bush Administration created rather then try to tie Obama to people who don’t even matter. That’s why McCain is going to loose. He’s an idiot!

  26. I really don’t get this…what is the obsession with his associations?

    Because there is a large group of people that are terrified of people who are not white. Palin made a statement this weekend, repeated it, and is defending it — that Obama “pals around with terrorists”. This would NEVER be said about a white man in Obama’s place. It is sanctioned racism and it is disgusting.

    People are so desperate for Obama to have some sort of thing in his past, or in his present, that is disreputable. They can’t find anything legitimate (after all this time they can’t find anything — that alone speaks volumes about who he is), so they appeal to people’s fears. Lame.

  27. What I do not understand is why people like Obama. He has no record that proves he will do anything. From my view he is just another political hack for the democrats who has not had any record on reform for anything. Unless it is blaming the opposite party.

    McCain was not my 1st choice but at least he and Palin have stood up to their own parties and worked across party lines. These things facing us are bigger then some political hack can handle.

    We do not need another G W Bush with the opposite party and I am affraid that is all Obama is. He has his Cheney with Biden and has no intention of working things out for the better of our country.

    I really think its lame to pull the race card on Palin for going after her opponent in a political race. If Obama is running on judgment and who he is going to appoint to what .. then we need to look at who he has looked to in the past.

  28. It’s amazing to me when people say “pulling the race card” like that makes racism OK. Like it’s not fair for someone to point out that it IS racist to say certain things…because it makes the one they like look like a bad person.

    Racism is not a game to me — I don’t “play” like that.

  29. Explain to me Just Thinking, why is it racist to point out that Obama has made unwise choices about who he has associated with over the years.

    Bill Ayers is a terrorist who says he wished he had blown up more buildings back in the day.

    Rev. Wright believes the government created AIDS to commit genocide against people of color.

    These two are total kooks, yet they are mentors to Obama. I fail to see why it is racist to question Obama’s judgement in this area.

  30. Bill Ayers and Barack Obama have been linked during their time in the city of Chicago, where they lived three blocks apart and led charges for education reform in the state of Illinois. The two met “at a luncheon meeting about school reform in a Chicago skyscraper.” Obama was then named to the Chicago Annenberg Project board to oversee the distribution of grants in Chicago. Later in 1995, Ayers hosted “a coffee” for “Mr. Obama’s first run for office.” Both Obama and Ayers were members of the board of an anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met twelve times. Ayers also contributed $200 to Obama’s re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate in April 2001.” Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers. Obama says he has not visited Ayers during the presidential campaign. The senator said in September 2008 that he hadn’t “seen him in a year-and-a-half.” In February 2008, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: “Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.” CNN’s review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved. Internal reviews by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic “have said that their reporting doesn’t support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship.”

    Mentor? I think not.

    I don’t have anything to say about Rev.Wright except that I think holding someone accountable for the actions/words of the people that they have had in their life is dumb. We all associated & have relationships with at least one person (if not more) who we care about & love but whose actions, attitude and words we disapprove of and that sadden us. There are hundreds of men who do not have a personal relationship with Frank Damazio — but more than likely because they belonged to his church he officiated their weddings & has been asked by many to be a part of their businesses, agendas, boards, etc. simply because of his status or some other reputation he may have in their minds. It doesn’t mean they feel mentored by him or even if they do feel that way, it doesn’t mean that they are.

    And I think it is racist because the same “associations” and fear based words would not be thrown around regarding a man who is white. If it’s not racist, then it is appealing to those who are racist…which is just as lame. I don’t mean to throw the word “racist” out like it is a dirty word. I do think racism is ugly…but I believe that most people are racist and just haven’t accepted it. Until people realize that they believe certain stereotypes and have preconceived notions about another race, then they cannot began to challenge those things within themselves. I don’t think racism is always associated with hatred. Mostly I think it is associated with fear. When someone tells me that are not racist and have never been racist, then I truly believe that they are and just haven’t realized it yet because it is a difficult thing to confront within oneself. We all want to believe we are above it…but we’re not.

  31. [Comment ID #35296 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I believe that the founding fathers were rational human beings, not arrogant, legalistic idiots who wrote these rules so they could be complicit in the nearly 2,000 child homicides each year. The simple fact is that because of people like you who fear for your 2nd amendment rights, guns are absolutely out of control in America right now. Guns were a completely different beast in their period than they are today, and the second amendment was written for a time period where there were outlaws, indians, and corrupt tyrannical rulers which people needed to have the right to defend themselves against. While there still may be corrupt tyrannical leaders, they aren’t nearly as much of a threat to your life.

    Just the thought of owning a gun to many people in today’s civilized countries is vulgar and obscene. Yet among “conservative” Americans, it’s glorified. Among non-third world countries, we have off the charts homicide and violent crime rates. Why is that?

  32. Bill Ayers is white … and anyone who is as close to him white or black they would do the same thing. They did this to Bill Clinton with:

    Susan H. McDougal
    Marc Rich

    And more.

    No you are playing the race card and because race is such an important issue its shameful to do this. You belittle real racism when you try to merge the issues like this. Really it makes me sick!

  33. [Comment ID #35317 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Because if he was an old, “conservative” white guy, you wouldn’t care. You’d think it was harmless politics or business.

    You just said yourself that you’d vote for Bush for a third term. Have you ever heard anything about his and his family’s close business ties with the Bin Ladens? No, you probably haven’t; and if you had, then you’d just find some reason to casually dismiss them. You know why? Because Bush is white and what you call “conservative”.

  34. Again, not playing any game that involves race and/or cards.

    Racism is not a simple thing…I am not belittling anything. I know it is a serious, complex issue. I have a right to believe that when someone says something, it is racist and I have a right to state why I think that. Just like you have a right to believe whatever it is you believe on certain issues or about certain people.

    Can you remind me what issues I am merging?

  35. Bill Ayers is white … and anyone who is as close to him white or black they would do the same thing. They did this to Bill Clinton with:

    Maybe…but I don’t think anyone ever tried to infer that Clinton was/is a terrorist.
    Because how could he be….he is white.

  36. Rev. Wright believes the government created AIDS to commit genocide against people of color.

    That’s just stupid…everyone knows that AIDS is God’s way of punishing those pesky gays.

  37. They said Bill Clinton was a cocaine dealer. Or more that while he was Governor he was on the take for the MOB. His ties to the MOB are all over the Internet.

    They did try to connect the dots between Bush and Bin Ladens. Also to his connections to Seceritas and KWAM or Kuwait American Holdings company.

    This is typical politics and nothing more. You are merging typical political smear campaigns with Racism and that is belittling racism in America.

    Its not because he is black. Its because he is running for President and that is what the Opposite side does. The only difference is that nobody can find slimy connections to McCain so they just smear him with having too many homes.

  38. Highlights from an article about politics and race:

    The dirty little secret no one will talk about is the Bradley Effect. Put simply, people lie to pollsters when the candidate in question is black. How many of them are actually racist? Probably not too many — but no one these days wants to even be thought of as a racist. So they lie. In the weird world of American race relations, that’s progress.

    How big is the Bradley Effect? Nobody knows. But Kaus theorizes that it — along with McCain sucking up a bunch of the independent voters — might have been enough to give New Hampshire to Hillary Clinton back in January. Heck, as soon as Obama looked like a lock on the nomination, even people who really did intend to vote for him seemed to switch back to Clinton, giving her lots of wins at the end. Too little, too late for Hill — but maybe enough to give us a feel for the size of the Effect.

    Call it … two points? Three? I’ve seen estimates as high as five percent, but let’s be conservative here.

    The next question is: Is the Bradley Effect evenly distributed, or does it vary by state or region?

    My guess — again, just a guess — is that it varies, and maybe pretty widely. Counterintuitively, perhaps, I’d say there’s less of an effect in the South. People there deal with race (not — ahem — always very successfully) almost every day, and in ways the rest of the country never had to. And frankly I’d expect a southerner to be more willing on average to tell a pollster exactly what he or she really thinks.

    In liberal bastions like California and New York, the Bradley Effect might be greater than in other places. There’s more pressure to conform to the prevailing liberal orthodoxy, and fewer conservatives to lean on, too.

    Midwestern voters sure are nice, even to poll takers. I’d expect a pretty solid BE from Ohio through Kansas.

    Of course, the Effect will be partly counterbalanced by black Obama voters who might not want to be seen as voting solely on his race — but who will do just that, anyway.

    So if we’re being honest here, and I’ve certainly tried to be as dispassionate as possible, here’s how to read the state polls.

    For southern states, subtract 1% or less from Obama’s support. It’s in the South where I’d expect the weakest Bradleys, and Obama’s strongest over-performance with black voters. In the northeast and the west coast, Obama could lose as much as five percent — but interestingly enough, that’s not enough to cost him any of those states except perhaps New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. The entire west coast is a lock — but savvy betters might want to put some money on McCain in Oregon. Yes, Oregon. The midwest and mountain states? Subtract two or three points. In the more urban-industrial midwestern states (and Colorado), black over-voting will again help compensate, limiting the damage Obama suffers from the Bradley Effect. But will it be enough? In Wisconsin it might be, in Missouri not so much.

    To put it more bluntly, if on election day Obama leads in any given state by “only” 1-5%, then there’s still a very good chance McCain will win that state.

    Is the Bradley Effect real? Yes, it is. We’ve seen it before, as recently as the Democratic primaries. How will it play out? Obviously, the polls are of no help to us here, so we have to go on guts. And my gut tells me that the Bradley Effect could cost Obama Michigan and Pennsylvania — and thus the election.

    There are many people who like to deny the issue of race in this and all political elections. I get that no one wants to consider themselves a raciest, but denying it’s existence is an act of racism in an of itself. The proof is in the history and in the numbers. Race is a big factor is some states. Sure we here on the left coast are a little more “open-minded” but as the article points out, one has to be weary of a place like Oregon, where it’s PC to say race isn’t an issue, yet the states black population is less then 5%. Truth is no one really knows how much Obama’s mixed race will play a part in voting booths across the country as people are there alone with no one looking over their shoulder at who they mark, however we should be able to all agree that it will play a part.

  39. The only difference is that nobody can find slimy connections to McCain so they just smear him with having too many homes.

    Please.

    Google “Keating 5″. McCain is completely corrupt.

    And I think the Obama is holding off, because they’re ahead, and they don’t have to go negative.

  40. The Reformer:

    I agree about that. Race is in play in this Presidential race. What makes me sick is when any Republican makes a character call on Obama people want to play the race card saying they are racist for doing so.

    Palin is not a racist and nothing she has said is Racism. She is just getting dirty in politics and you can ding her for that but not on racism.

  41. Andrey said:

    “The simple fact is that because of people like you who fear for your 2nd amendment rights, guns are absolutely out of control in America right now.”

    The reason guns are “absolutely out of control” is because of criminal behavior. It has nothing to do with people like me who believe in 2nd amendment rights.

  42. former NBCC-

    I am sorry that I am offending you…that is not my intent. Maybe it is just dirty politics…and so whatever to that. But you saying she is not racist is the same as me saying she is…neither of us can really know.

    My belief is that most people are racist (including myself). So even if she is not intending to be racist and it can’t be said that she is a racist, I believe it is damaging to people who are listening to Palin speak when she implies that Obama is a terrorist (because what other reason would anyone have to want to point out that he supposedly “associates” with terrorists, besides that they want people to think/believe he is a terrorist?). People are more likely to believe this about him because of the color of his skin, and other ridiculous rumors about him (i.e. he is a Muslim). I believe that her statement has underlying racist connotations that are not obvious…but that strike at the place of fear in people’s hearts in the same place that fear-based racism resides. People are afraid of things they don’t understand and they are afraid of things that are different than them. Palin is trying to appeal to people who view Obama as “other” than themselves…most of those things are associated with his race. Racism is not just violent actions or hateful words…racism is a mindest; a way of thinking. In that way, I think most people are either racist or have tenets of racism going on inside them and I count myself among those people. I challenge and fight those thoughts the moment they come into my head…but most people don’t do that.

    I am NOT being flippant…I do NOT take this lightly. I wouldn’t have the first clue as to how to “talk politics”. I am simply joining in this discussion with my thoughts and opinions. The fact that you so quickly reject them makes me think that maybe you don’t consider them. I consider everything even if it is repulsive to me.

    I don’t dismiss the things that Palin says because I think she is a racist (I admit I have no idea if she is or not). It’s because she can’t find a coherent sentence with two hands unless they have been written out for her beforehand and she has them memorized. And even then, she and words are not so goodly.

  43. Google “Keating 5″. McCain is completely corrupt.

    My understanding of the Keating 5 is that it was a democrat party investigation. Sure McCain was looked into but was found to be innocent along with Senator John Glenn.

    Bennett the Democrat Attorney who headed the investigation just wrote a book called “in the ring” or something.

    Nice try catylist .. your just plane wrong.

  44. Just Thinking said: “My belief is that most people are racist (including myself). ”

    WOW, I do not even know where to start with you. It sounds like you are trying to have an honest discussion about this but we are from different worlds on this subject. I am not sure if you will ever understand.

    I for one am not a racist. My own chosen family is mixed and bi-racial. I do not look at the world through race although it is in my world every day.

    Obama tried to make McCain “other” than themselves…” by stating that McCain has 11 houses (or whatever). It is what politicians do welcome to politics.

    I would ease up on the race batting and see if you can truly know that God made all men (and women) in his image. That the color of our skin is no more apart of our personalities and lifestyle then the color of or eyes or hair. They are just attributes not who we are. If you see people how God sees them it is imposable to see them with any hate or even preference.

  45. I am not sure if you will ever understand.

    And I’m not sure you will. Let me try and be clear: when an idea comes into my head or I react to a situation that places someone of another race into a stereotypical role, I consider that a racist thought. When I pause to examine that thought, I always find that it is learned from family, society, etc….and not from any personal experience I have had with another person of that race — so I dismiss that thought as unfounded. I believe that most people do this: make snap judgments about people of other races based on stereotypes perpetuated at home, in society & in mainstream media. That is my definition of racism in its most widespread, mainstream form. It is so subtle that most people don’t even recognize it in themselves. And most people think they are “good people” and so are not prone to finding traits such as racism a part of who they are — they are most likely to reject that idea immediately as reprehensible & false.

    That is great that your “chosen family” is mixed and bi-racial…so is mine. When I say that I have found myself being racist, it does not mean that I have hatred in my heart toward another race…TO ME it means that I had preconceived notions & stereotypes in my brain that I didn’t even realize I had until they forced themself to the front of my psyche due to unforseen circumstances.

    That the color of our skin is no more apart of our personalities and lifestyle then the color of or eyes or hair. They are just attributes not who we are. If you see people how God sees them it is imposable to see them with any hate or even preference.

    This is an ideal, but right now it is not a reality for most of America. Until people begin to accept that they too have bought into negative stereotypes about other races (which in and of itself is the most widespread form of racism), and try to combat those negative stereotypes – within themselves & in society – then we cannot even start to move toward that ideal.

    I am not batting at anything. I am not fixated on race – mine or anyone elses. This is an important discussion (not just this one, but the one about race & race relations in the US in general). Unfortanately, it is just not as simple as people want to believe it is.

  46. They said Bill Clinton was a cocaine dealer. Or more that while he was Governor he was on the take for the MOB. His ties to the MOB are all over the Internet.

    The thing is, the general public does not fear drug dealers or the mob. The general public fears terrorists. Republican candidates play on people’s fears…it’s just what they do.

  47. Just Thinking said: The general public fears terrorists.

    Geez, I wonder why? For God sakes don’t any of you people remember 9-11 or is it just like the holocaust? I suppose next your going to tell us it never happened.

  48. We all have certain prejudices. It is a fact of our humanity. I am not sure that it is fair to classify every race based prejudice or bias as racism. Racism has some specific components. It is negative and places on race above another. The standard for using the word is higher than you are placing it. below are some definitions of the word.

    According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups.

    The Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular racial group, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.

    The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: “the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others.”

  49. Just Thinking said: The general public fears terrorists.

    Geez, I wonder why? For God sakes don’t any of you people remember 9-11 or is it just like the holocaust? I suppose next your going to tell us it never happened.

    In what way did I imply that fearing terrorists was an unfounded thing?

  50. I am not sure that it is fair to classify every race based prejudice or bias as racism.

    Is there a word/term for it then?

  51. In the case of what you are talking about I would call it racial bias.

    Personally, I think Obama is getting a break because of his color. People do not want to be seen as racist or making racially based decisions, especially in the mainstream media. However, the bigger reason that he is getting a break is because people want to see completely different leadership. The anti-Bush/GOP sentiment is fairly strong. As this post shows, even conservatives want something different.

    I think the article reformer posted is pretty accurate except that McCain has pulled out of Michigan. Funny thing for me is that if Obama wins, it doesn’t put the race issue forward that much beyond the symbolism of it. But if he loses, it shows me that things are not as far along as we all tend to think.

  52. More on race

    David Gergin of CNN came out and said that we don’t know how race is going to play out in the election. He quoted a Stanford study that said the race factor could be as much as 5-6%. James Carville then said that the country is going to be in big trouble if Obama is consistently 5% ahead on the polls then loses the election. Rodney King riots anyone?

  53. PBS has an online poll posted asking if Sarah Palin is qualified. Apparently the right wing knew about this in advance and are flooding the voting with YES votes.

    The poll will be reported on PBS and picked up by mainstream media. It can influence undecided voters in swing states.

    Please do two things — takes 20 seconds.

    1) Click on link and vote yourself.

    Here’s the link:
    http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html

    2) Then send this to every single Obama-Biden voter you know, and urge them to vote and pass it on.

    The last thing we need is PBS saying their viewers think Sarah Palin is qualified.

  54. I still find it funny that anyone who is supporting Obama is critical of Palin’s experience.

    Like Rudy Giuliani said, the first day Palin was governor she had more executive experience than Obama, the second day she was governor she had twice as much as experience as Obama.

  55. All this race bating is annoying. This country is 1/2 red and 1/2 blue. in part because that is what a 2 party system will do. It will move its platform to partake in as many votes as possible with out loosing too many on the other side.

    Race has very little to do with it.

  56. [Comment ID #35367 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I find it funny that anyone can support Palin…regardless of experience. Lets see…

    1) She apparently has no ability to answer questions because when asked anything of substance she completely avoids it

    2) She can’t put two sentences together unless someone tells her what to say

    3) She’s about as educated as a UPS delivery man (have you seen her resume? Frightening for someone who wants to be in top government leadership)

    4) She understands foreign affairs about as well as my 2 year old daughter (oh but I forgot…she can see Russia???)

    5) She thinks being “an average Joe sixpack” in the white house is a good thing

    6) She thinks a presidential election is equivalent to a beauty contest or race for prom queen

    7) She’s seems seedy and unethical (not paying taxes, paying her husband and children money from the state of Alaska for “working at home,” lying about troopergate, avoiding the entire topic of the bridge to nowhere, and on and on).

    8) She has previously admitted that she doesn’t talk to racial minorities

    9) She doesn’t believe that global warming is man made

    10) She talks about family values and moral but hasn’t shown me that she actually lives them

    I could go on, but I think I’ve proven my point. I could care less about her or Obama’s experience. I just think she’s a total idiot and should not be one 72 year old heart beat away from being the commander and chief of the greatest country in the world. That should scare the hell out of anyone!

    Oh but she believes in God, goes to church, is pro-life, anti-gay, and has governed a state with a population less then the city I live in…so your right, she is very qualified.

  57. Palin was elected twice to the city council of Wasilla, then she served two terms as mayor.

    She was appointed to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission and also chaired the commission. She resigned from it because of the lack of ethics among her fellow Republican members. She then filed a formal complaint against the chair of the state Republican Party over ethics issues. He was forced to resign and pay a fine. She was then elected governor.

    When has Obama ever had the guts to go after his own Democratic Party which certainly has corruption issues in the city of Chicago? What has Obama done that even comes close to actual executive experience?

    Obama is the most inexperienced person to ever be a major candidate for president yet you want to pick on the VP nominee.

  58. [Comment ID #35382 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Again, not picking on her because of her experience….I’m picking on her because she’s stupid. The woman can’t articulate a clear sentence and every time she opens her mouth something ridiculous comes out. There should be a game; what dumb thing will Palin say next? She’s an embarrassment to a man who has had a long and honorable career as a US Senator. Because of her McCain is most likely going to go down in a ball of flames and his career is toast.

  59. Thanks Pony. I think the writing is on the wall and she's loosing it. Great thoughts in the Chicago Sun Times today.

    McCain, Palin turn to risky politics

    Silence on abusive crowds more bigot than maverick

    BY MARY MITCHELL Sun-Times Columnist

    If John McCain loses the election, he'll have Sarah Palin to thank. His VP pick may be good for a few laughs on "Saturday Night Live." She may have sold a warehouse of eyeglasses. But her recent acid-tongued attack on Barack Obama in which she accused him of "palling around with terrorists" is not only a turn-off, but dangerous. And despite Palin's steady stream of hateful speech, Obama's poll numbers have gone up, while McCain's supporters are growing antsy. During the final stretch of this long campaign, Palin has been unleashed like the pit bull she likes to compare herself to. Together, McCain and Palin have managed to bring out the worst behavior that I've witnessed in a presidential campaign.

    A Washington Post reporter who was on the campaign trail also noted that Palin's attacks on the media have sparked some ugliness. Dana Milbank reported that the press was taunted by the crowd after Palin blamed the mainstream media for her abysmal performances in interviews. "At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African-American sound man . . . and told him, "Sit down, boy." At another point during her rant, Palin cited a New York Times article that described Ayers as "part of a group that quote 'launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,' " she rattled off as if she was talking about 9/11. That brought a loud "Kill him!" from an unidentified man in the audience. Kill who? Had Obama supporters behaved as badly, he would not have heard the end of it.

    It should not be OK for a presidential or vice presidential candidate to incite people to engage in abusive behavior. Even conservative pundits, like Kathleen Parker, have urged Palin to take a hike. Down in the polls, Palin and McCain are now playing a game that could backfire. After all, there aren't many people, black or white, who feel they have to take verbal abuse from riled-up supporters. By now, McCain and Palin must have heard about the racial slurs and inappropriate comments. Had this ugly incident occurred at an Obama rally, the McCain camp would be asking him to apologize to voters and to denounce the hateful behavior. So why are these candidates being allowed to act like nothing out of the ordinary happened? That doesn't make them look like a team of mavericks. It makes them look like a team of bigots.

  60. Another Conservative Jumps Ship

    Not my dad’s GOP: Buckley leaves National Review

    A week after endorsing Democrat Barack Obama for president, Christopher Buckley, a writer and son of William F. Buckley Jr., is leaving National Review, the conservative magazine founded by his father more than 50 years ago.

    Buckley, a best-selling novelist who had been a featured columnist at the National Review, infuriated conservatives last week by declaring himself “the latest conservative/libertarian/whatever to leap onto the Barack Obama bandwagon.”

    He criticized Republican John McCain as “irascible and snarly” and credited Obama with having “a first-class temperament and a first-class intellect.”

    On his blog posting Tuesday, Christopher Buckley said he had received a great deal of angry e-mails and observed that “conservatives have always had a bit of trouble with the concept of diversity. The GOP likes to say it’s a big tent. Looks more like a yurt to me.”

    Buy buy McSame and Falin…hope you had a fun ride while it lasted…

  61. 5. Obama is the most pro abortion candidate to ever be nominated for president. Maybe he is. I don’t know. But after the last eight years of Bush, I just don’t care that much about abortion anymore.

    Seriously? Your mother must be so proud.

  62. [Comment ID #35518 Will Be Quoted Here]

    The reason I don’t care about abortion as much, is because I believe that being pro-life is more than just opposing abortion. It’s about preventing unecessary wars. It’s about opposing torture. It’s about ensuring that their are fewer abortions by providing teens with the knowledge necessary to keep from getting pregnant. It’s about providing low income people with the money necessary to be able to afford to have children.

    I’m still pro-life. I have just decided that the Democratic party is now more pro-life than the Republican party.

  63. Pingback: City Business Church » Blog Archive » Why the Democratic Party is the Pro-life party.

  64. I’m still pro-life. I have just decided that the Democratic party is now more pro-life than the Republican party.

    Seriously? I’m so proud.

  65. I’m still pro-life. I have just decided that the Democratic party is now more pro-life than the Republican party.

    I wholeheartedly agree with this.

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