McCain booed after trying to calm anti-Obama crowd
Posted on October 10th, 2008 by The Reformer into the Politics categoryWell it seems the crazies are really coming out now that McCain is trailing in every poll, but even he is realizing it's gone a little too far. In an article today on yahoo news McCain finally fought back.
The anger is getting raw at Republican rallies and John McCain is acting to tamp it down. McCain was booed by his own supporters Friday when, in an abrupt switch from raising questions about Barack Obama's character, he described the Democrat as a "decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States."
A sense of grievance spilling into rage has gripped some GOP events this week as McCain supporters see his presidential campaign lag against Obama. Some in the audience are making it personal, against the Democrat. Shouts of "traitor," "terrorist," "treason," "liar," and even "off with his head" have rung from the crowd at McCain and Sarah Palin rallies, and gone unchallenged by them.
McCain changed his tone Friday when supporters at a town hall pressed him to be rougher on Obama. A voter said, "The people here in Minnesota want to see a real fight." Another said Obama would lead the U.S. into socialism. Another said he did not want his unborn child raised in a country led by Obama.
"If you want a fight, we will fight," McCain said. "But we will be respectful. I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments." When people booed, he cut them off.
"I don't mean that has to reduce your ferocity," he said. "I just mean to say you have to be respectful."
Presidential candidates are accustomed to raucous rallies this close to Election Day and welcome the enthusiasm. But they are also traditionally monitors of sorts from the stage. Part of their job is to leaven proceedings if tempers run ragged and to rein in an out-of-bounds comment from the crowd.
Not so much this week, at GOP rallies in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and other states.
When a visibly angry McCain supporter in Waukesha, Wis., on Thursday told the candidate "I'm really mad" because of "socialists taking over the country," McCain stoked the sentiment. "I think I got the message," he said. "The gentleman is right." He went on to talk about Democrats in control of Congress.
On Friday, McCain rejected the bait.
"I don't trust Obama," a woman said. "I have read about him. He's an Arab."
McCain shook his head in disagreement, and said:
"No, ma'am. He's a decent, family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with (him) on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about."
He had drawn boos with his comment: "I have to tell you, he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States."
We all understand the game of politics, but when people are screaming "off with his head" it makes me wonder where this is heading? Especially since a majority of these people claim to be God fearing Christians.
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October 10th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Here’s some video in case you weren’t sure what I was talking about…these people are nuts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ExoaSCCcHw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E&feature=related
October 10th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Yeah, it’s getting pretty ugly.
The problem is they really can’t win on the issues, because W has done such a horrible job, and the Republican brand is so tarnished. So all they’ve really got is personal attacks. And to an extent, I get that. And kind of expect it. But when the crowds start yelling “kill him”, uh then you’ve gone too far.
October 10th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
McCain and Palin have created this monster - this spectacle of crazed mobs - by their continued appeal to the prejudices and warped emotions of an unreflecting, ignorant sector of the American public. McCain and Palin have run their campaign on symbology, personal attacks and soundbite-sized slogans, and this is what they get.
It is instructive also to see what kind of people are supporting McCain - the “God, guts and guns,” “Christian patriot,” America-uber-alles crowd. McCain/Palin were able to appeal to this crowd by means of allegations that properly belong only in tabloids like the National Enquirer, allegations that no rational person would take seriously. I also think that the rage of their supporters is partly an expression of great fear at the signs that America is about to fall from its exalted position, and that everyone - American Christians included - will have to live more humbly, and with greater respect for other peoples.
October 11th, 2008 at 7:41 am
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QcpdUtxNQ&feature=related
Yes I agree this crowd did go overboard but check out this video - It links Obama with Odinga, who lost an election in Kenya and then proceeded to have his opponents supporters killed and now is in power when he should be in jail. Obama campaigned for this guy & is also related to him.
well my flirting with the left is over - affordable health care be damned! I’m not voting for a man who is friends with marxist terrorists.
google Odinga & Obama - view the connections, then put the pieces together with Ayers - Obama can continue denying he’s anything but a God-fearing Christian - I’m not buying it anymore.
At least I know who Mcain is…
October 11th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Question.
Whether or not you are a Obama supporter or a Mccain supporter, if the other canidate wins will you be be praying for that man and for our country?
Curious.
October 11th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Actually I can honestly say I have ALREADY prayed for Obama and HOPE that he is truly who he says he is -
dont think I’ve prayed for McCain yet - but thanks for the encouragement Jeremiah - it’s easy for me to get on my selfish soapbox.
so my answer is Yes - I will pray for both men.
October 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Well, that video was a waste of my time. It’s a bunch of unfounded accusations and scary pictures of black people, and then concludes with an implied tenuous link between Obama and Odinga. Meh. That video was all about scaring white people.
All I know is that Republicans have ruined this country over the last eight years. And I don’t care if Obama is a God fearing Christian or not. I just want a competent leader who can get our country out of the mess our Christian President George W. Bush created.
October 11th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Thats why I said to google both their names to get a more unbiased view of the relationships these 2 have. and I’m not white btw, but still scared…
October 11th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Amen to what Cat said. I could care less if Obama really was a Muslim, though I definitely do not think that he is. I wouldn’t care if Obama was a purple dinosaur. He’s not the boogy-man, and here all these crazy fascist conservatives with guns in their trucks and ammo piled up in their garages are scared of him… I don’t get it. If I was a conservative I wouldn’t be scared of anyone; I’d have enough weaponry to blow those damn aaarabs to hell where they belong.
I don’t care that he has Marxist friends either… so what… I’m a Marxist… I want friends (:
Bill Ayers is hardly a terrorist anyways… he is a distinguished professor who when he was younger planted harmless bombs to scare people… like Halloween for grown-ups. Its not like he went around executing people… that’s what the U.S. military does (supported by the GOP by the way).
October 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
The link between Obama and Ayers has already been thoroughly debunked. Ayers was a radical at the same time that Obama was in diapers. The two men met as men together long after Ayers’ radical phase, as part of a task force convened by a Republican. JAIAM, I don’t mean to be harsh, but you are simply regurgitating McCain/Palin “National Enquirer headline” propaganda. I know exactly who McCain and Palin are. Their voting record speaks for their continued support of corporatists and crony capitalists who have brought our country to its present state of ruin. They are pulling out all the stops in their campaign of innuendo, symbols and slogans in their bid to retain control of our nation.
Meanwhile, we have a party which has put the US $10 trillion in the hole, has deregulated our economy to the extent that a few very rich and greedy people have succeeded in wrecking it, has destroyed the environment to an amazing degree, has started two hopeless wars and tried to start at least two more, and has taken apart every social safety net which could have helped our country adjust to the certain prospect of a world of diminishing natural resources. These facts can be seen everywhere - not just on YouTube.
October 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Come on TH, how could you leave out the part of how the republicans crucified Jesus!
October 11th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Jeremiah, you have a deft sense of humor - at least that’s how I take it. But here’s something more serious: according to a NY Times article, http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/us/politics/09voting.html?em, it appears that several swing states have been illegally purging their voter rolls of registered voters during the last two months, and that the Republicans are trying to take advantage of this to deny people the right to vote in this election. In several cases, the number of names removed from voter registration rolls was several times the number of people who actually moved or died. In almost all cases, the purges came after the Federal deadline for voter registration purges. In at least one case, a state purged people whose homes had been foreclosed. This is what I mean when I say that the rich, evil elites who run our country are doing all they can to maintain control. This is the sort of voter fraud one would have expected in some Third World dictatorship!
No, the Republicans didn’t crucify Jesus. But because of them and the Religious right, “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles,” just as it is written.
October 11th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Ok boys - just play your hand and I’ll play mine. The links with Obama and Odinga are there - Interesting that U.S. mainstream isnt mentioning it at all when BBC & Canadian news is.
TH in Soc said:
“Meanwhile, we have a party which has put the US $10 trillion in the hole, has deregulated our economy to the extent that a few very rich and greedy people have succeeded in wrecking it, …These facts can be seen everywhere - not just on YouTube”
JAIAM:
I agree absolutely but I fear the worst if our country becomes desensitized to violence like what happened in Kenya - imagine if Gore started killing all the Bush supporters - he’d be put in jail - instead of being in power like Odinga is. (Oh I can hear the comments now… )
I’m not going to blind myself to think the left has all our answers just because the repubs have ruined our nation.
I dont see Obama as the cure for republican greed - I see a 3rd party - fiscal conservatives who would give us the flat tax - the best way to distribute wealth, abolish the IRS and their tax forms both of which Obama wants.
As far as the greedy corps go - I vote death penalty for white collar criminals. China’s done it, so should we. Monsanto would be first on my list, followed by the AMA.
Geez I guess I belong in nowhere land - having yelled at my stauch conservative Bible thumper friends this week and disappointing my leftist socialist friends & now ticking you guys off - hmmmm if I could just shut up, I’d have alot more friends.
October 11th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I have to come along on the heels of Jeremiah though.
Would you pray for McCain and Palin if they were elected president? Would you submit to them as your governing authority as it says in the Bible?
Last time I checked, we still had a president, and his name is George Bush, but I don’t see a lot of submission and prayer going his way these days. Christians are too scared of looking different than the world.
And I’ve made my peace that if Obama was president I would support and pray for him. I don’t even like attacking him now.
Don’t hate on Obama. Love McCain and Palin!
October 11th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
JAIMAM, why are there “detainees” in Guantanamo? What about the supposed “get tough on crime” legislation in many states which has led to an explosion in the numbers of people incarcerated for non-violent offenses? What about the link between the private prison industry, the prison labor industry and the Republican party? What about the disproportionate nature of the “War on Drugs” which has caused the majority of people locked up in prison to be members of minorities? The truth is that our nation is already desensitized to violence. What about the people who support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and who scream that we should attack Iran?
jaspercreel, you are right - we are to submit to our leaders and pray for them. But we are not to condone their evil deeds. The Old Testament is full of instances of prophets who were arrested by Israelite kings for delivering a Godly rebuke to these kings. Also, there was John the Baptist and his confrontation of Herod. How is it that those who condemn the evils of the Bush administration are trying to look like the world? And why should we love McCain and Palin? What part of their voting record and political scandals are we supposed to love?
October 11th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
The kings of the old testament and Herod were confronted for immoral acts, acts that directly defied the law of God. And they were given a direct word from the Lord. I don’t profess to have a direct word from the Lord for our president, or his administration. Do you see Bush directly defying the law of God (I’m not being sarcastic, that is a sincere question, I’d like to know)? All I here God saying is submit and support, and above all else follow Him and His commands.
So many Christians jumped on the bandwagon when Clinton was confronted for his immoral act. “Leave him alone!” “Personal life and politics don’t mix!” I heard it all over the board. The bottom line is they do mix, and it’s obvious in the Bible that immoral kings were judged and moral kings were blessed. Yet Christians have forsaken that concept, because it isn’t popular, it’s too counter-cultural. We are in the world but not of it folks. We march to the beat of a different drum, our God is not the same as the world’s. His ways are higher than ours, and His economy values vastly different criteria. America has forsaken His way, and pursued humanism, and now we’re left with the filthy mess. The state we’re in is not the president’s fault, it’s the people’s. I want to elect a president that lives and model’s God’s standard.
That’s why I love McCain. He’s not perfect, but He’s the closest model to a Godly man we have. I don’t believe the hype about his political scandals. We’re always out to find scandals nowadays. Both parties have lambasted the other with supposed “scandals.” I want to look at the fruit of one’s spiritual life as criteria for my leader. I want to see their morals, and I see the heart of God reflected greater in McCain than I do Obama. Mostly though, I see it in Palin.
October 11th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Warning: Rant to follow
One of the problems that we have in America is that we don’t know where the line is between leadership and listening to the constituents. So many issues are very complex and most of us don’t have enough time and information to properly understand what the situation is. We ask for more details to the plans of candidates but to truly get the details would bore the average citizen. When Obama gives details, people lose interest. McCain doesn’t give details for all sorts of reasons, the primary one being that slogans work better than details for the GOP most of the time.
In my mind, when we look at why the country is struggling, there is fault to go around for business, GOP, Dems, and the electorate. The challenge is that no one actually wants to take any responsibility. So, the winner is the one who can make the most promises. The candidates are not willing to tell the tough truth because people don’t want to hear what it is going to really take to move this country in a new and better direction. Obama would move us towards more of a European social democracy. However, no one tells the truth of how the European system is paid for, high taxes. The GOP does not tell you that smaller government will eventually mean fewer services provided.
Character does matter but all of this stuff about Ayers, Odinga, Keating 5, how many houses McCain has, seems to be a distraction to me. I don’t know about the personal life of my Dr. or my current accountant. I know they both are great at what they do. If either is involved in an obvious crime or act of gross misconduct then the legal system will deal with that and I will react accordingly. All of the hearsay convictions in the court of public opinion does not tell me much about how they will lead the American government. I no longer accept the OT view of what the leader of the country needs to be. Or maybe it is more accurate to say that the president has not been the true leader of the country since the 50’s and does not need to be looked at through the lens of God’s requirement of the OT kings. The president is a leader, manager and figurehead. I want the person who can fulfill these three roles well. If that person has a few dings, so be it. King David and Solomon anyone?
October 11th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Shall I list the actions of the Bush administration which have directly defied the law of God? We need go no further than the Ten Commandments, if you’d like. These are not personal scandals, but policy decisions which have killed tens of thousands of people without cause.
Is McCain the closest thing to a Godly man that we have? If so, how do you define godliness? He is a compulsive gambler who cheated on his first wife. But if we leave his personal life out of things, we can always look at his policy decisions.
We have the Bible, which already states God’s commandments. If you see someone breaking them, do you have to wait for a “word from the Lord” before you confront that person?
Help me out; I really am trying to understand. I understand your dislike of Clinton; I also think he’s a slimy character. But I think that many in the Religious Right are pretty slimy too - and I’m thinking of the policies they promote, not just their personal lives (which in many cases are also rather gooey).
But I am really tired of people trying to use my faith to gain some earthly advantage. I don’t mean to be harsh, but I wish the Religious Right would just shut up. If they are really only concerned about moral issues, why do some of their spokesmen try to tell Christians that “they must not believe in Global Warming!”? Since when is it a sin to believe certain facts about the ability of carbon dioxide to refract and change the wavelength of infrared radiation?
Why do the leaders of the Religious Right tell us that the Republican party is the party of godliness when so many Republican politicians are still involved in scandals that lead to orange jumpsuits and leg irons? There is a story about how some conservative morality “watchdog” group gave a Republican a perfect 100 score on its “Morality Scorecard” while giving a Democrat a score of zero. The only problem is that the Republican was later arrested in a scandal. (See )
There is no such thing as a Christian nation nowadays, nor can such a nation be created through laws or elections. There are only Christians who reside on the earth as strangers and aliens, and (hopefully) as witnesses.
October 11th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Oops, forgot to show the link about the arrested Republican. See Fighting With Broken Weapons.
October 12th, 2008 at 7:54 am
THinSoC:
I seriously have to disagree. Jesus was a republican conservative. How would Jesus vote? Republican. If he was a Spanish citizen for example, he would write in vote for Amercian Republicans. GOP does not actually mean grand old party. It actually means God’s official party. If you did a bit of reading, you would know that.
All of the scandals. Lies and left wing conspiracies. Also, the man behind the podium on Sunday is excited about McCain. So, what’s your point?
October 12th, 2008 at 10:17 am
TH in SoC said:
October 11th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
JAIMAM, why are there “detainees” in Guantanamo? What about the supposed “get tough on crime” legislation in many states which has led to an explosion in the numbers of people incarcerated for non-violent offenses? What about the link between the private prison industry, the prison labor industry and the Republican party? What about the disproportionate nature of the “War on Drugs” which has caused the majority of people locked up in prison to be members of minorities? The truth is that our nation is already desensitized to violence. What about the people who support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and who scream that we should attack Iran?
JAIAM
wow I really dont have the answers to these - havent researched properly. I really dont know - something for me to pray about - I see the corruption in gov’t & in private sector - it sickens me. The only answer I can reach for is less gov’t - that has to be balanced with a proper health system for all (something which the right wont agree to) more regulation of corrupt corporations which again means bigger gov’t - so whose to say which gov’t agency should get cut? Thats where alot of our disagreement lies in this country.
Look at the revolving door between Monsanto makers of Aspertame & Round-up & the biggest pushers Genetically modified food & that damn RBST hormone in milk & Wash DC? Donald Rumsfeld pushed thru the approval process for Aspertame with his ties to Washington when he was on Monsantos payroll. Monsanto has created “round-up resistant” soy beans they are pushing all over the soy bean growing world. They make their farmers buy these seeds every year which farmers never have done in the passed. They send their henchmen to these farms to insure these farmers are not using seed they’ve set aside - they want to sell them seed every year - They’ve also modified the plant so the seed will die after 1-2 plantings.
My point is bigger gov’t means bigger corruption and these agencys like AMA & FDA are in bed with these big corporations who CREATE our laws btw.
Guess who pushed thru the bankruptcy legislation? The credit card industry who hires Mensa level actuarial scientist to determine your exact risk to them so they wont lose money on you. If you dont believe in bankruptcy - see what God says in the OT about it - the year of release - all debts were to be forgiven.
No I have no good answers and unfortunately no one else does either.
Our covert actions overseas are terrifying, yet so are other nations who embrace marxism - their killing their own citizens. So are they better than us? I dont think so
but I’m not so naive as to suggest we as a nation have been innocent.
I’m playing my own hand as I see it…
October 12th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
JAIAM, I think we are both seeing many of the same things. I also knew about the efforts to hijack our food system while ruining Third World farmers. Thanks for your comment; it was insightful.
I also agree with you that the solution to concentration of earthly power is decentralization and relocalization. I think this is going to happen to the West whether we want it to or not, as our resource base continues to shrink and our economic and military reach shrinks with it.
October 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
You’re right, there is no such thing as a Christian nation nowadays. It does not exist. But that doesn’t mean that has to be the case. I’m not talking about a hostile takeover, no crusades reenactments here. But I do know that the psalmist said, “The earth is the Lord’s and everything in it,” and that God commanded us to rule and subdue the earth, and that Jesus commanded, “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of the nations.”
I do believe we need a word from the Lord when confronting somebody. Take it to God first, he’ll help you remove the plank form your own eye so that you can confront. Also I believe you view many of the Bush policies and decisions as defying God’s law, such as the war in Iraq. I will have to disagree with you there. I know it’s a big can of worms to open, but Bush is not a murderer, and neither are our soldiers. You may not like it, but the war on terror has prevented any more attacks on our soil, which would have killed our civilians. It’s not perfect, what’s going on down there. But it is necessary.
I don’t think one party is God’s chosen party, not at all. You have to look at each individual. McCain has maded mistakes, but there is God’s grace and redemption right? And McCain has used that grace to move forward, not stay stuck in his own mess. The same grace is available to Obama for his sins, but as far as I know he still supports leaving babies who were supposed to be aborted but survived on an operating table to starve to death. This isn’t the only policy he has that I disagree with.
The problem with America is that we’re waiting for a leader to come and change things when a nation is only as good as it’s people. And Americans are the worst. Prideful, arrogant, lazy, independent, stupid, even. We’ve left the ways of God and pursued the ways of humanism and now we’re reaping consequences that for so long we refused to see. Change doesn’t start with government folks, it starts in the home. It starts in generations joining under a convenant of God. It starts with fathers being fathers and admonishing, nay commanding their children to pursue the ways of God their whole life. It starts with selfless living, a life given over to God’s kingdom and for His people. It doesn’t start with free health care and better sex education in school. It doesn’t start with increased social security and welfare. All that is is medicine to ease symptoms started long ago by a cancerous disease of humanism invading the heart of America. But we’re so blind we’ve refused to see our own consequences.
The church is going to be the changing agent in America, because it starts in the people, and it starts in their heart, and only God can change people that deep. That’s why I support McCain. He’s a humble godly man, and God is the only being that can help America at this point.
October 12th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Right. Who cares that more U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq than citizens on September 11th, so long as we’re preventing more terrorist attacks. Plus the thousands of seriously wounded. Not only that, but all the Iraqis, both insurgents and civilians, who have been killed or wounded. It’s ok because it’s war, and killing in war is justified and acceptable. Like you said, it’s necessary. Completely necessary.
I hate to burst your little bubble, but there’s no such thing as a humble politician. The very desire to be the President requires a bit of hubris.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:23 am
I’m so tired of these mortal men
with their hands on their wallets and their hearts full of sin
scared of their enemies, scared of their friends
and always running for re-election
so come to DC if it be thy will
because we’ve never had a savior on Capitol Hill
you can always trust the devil or a politician
to be the devil or a politician
but beyond that friends you’d best beware
’cause at the Pentagon bar they’re an inseparable pair
and as long as the lobbyists are paying their bills
we’ll never have a savior on Capitol Hill
all of our problems gonna disappear
when we can whisper right in that President’s ear
he could walk right across the reflection pool
in his combat boots and ten thousand dollar suit
you can render unto Caesar everything that’s his
you can trust in his power to come to your defense
it’s the way of the world, the way of the gun
it’s the trading of an evil for a lesser one
so don’t hold your breath or your vote until
you think you’ve finally found a savior up on Capitol Hill
–Derek Webb
October 13th, 2008 at 9:16 am
These statements kinda contradict each other, don’t you think?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha….thanks. I got a really good laugh out of these quotes.
So you, McCain and Palin have been “palling” around together then? Your conversations with them have helped you get to know their Godly, moral hearts? Next time you chat with McCain about his moral living, tell him he has run one of the worst presidential campaigns I have ever seen and to stop acting like a damn fool. (Great stuff!)
October 13th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Exactly, how do you know McCain is a Godly man. Or for that matter, how do you know Palin is a Godly woman. McCain cheated on his first wife repeatedly. And Palin was recently wrung up on ethics charges.
This is how Prosperity Preachers get in power. Christians don’t question authority. And they don’t think rationally. They go with their gut and what makes them feel good. And then the next thing you know, Pastor Frank is on week 11 of his 15 week series on tithing, and City Bible Church is eating it up.
I’m seriously fed up with American Christians. I don’t think they represent Christ at all.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I don’t think you should be talking about representing Christ cat, not with the kind of blog that is run here.
I’ve seen the fruit of McCain’s life, and I’ve judged he is a godly man. I don’t just base that on the morals he stands for, although that does play a part. He’s humble, or at least has been humbled in his life. He has had to accept God’s grace and forgiveness for his issues, and I believe he has done so. There is more reverence in him than in Obama, a respect and exaltation of God and His ways. The fruit of his life shows this. No I haven’t been “palling” around with him. But I’m trying to look at him after the spirit, not after the flesh. He has a servant’s heart, and Palin does as well.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Jasper, you epitomize everything that is wrong with Christianity today.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
I couldn’t agree more.
What’s that old famous quote? Something like, “God save me from your followers.” Couldn’t be more evident here.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
The Reformer said:
October 13th, 2008 at 9:16 am
JAIAM said: I agree absolutely but I fear the worst if our country becomes desensitized to violence like what happened in Kenya - imagine if Gore started killing all the Bush supporters - he’d be put in jail - instead of being in power like Odinga is.
JAIAM said: As far as the greedy corps go - I vote death penalty for white collar criminals. China’s done it, so should we. Monsanto would be first on my list, followed by the AMA.
These statements kinda contradict each other, don’t you think
JAIAM:
I dont think they contradict each other. It’s one thing for someone to be found guilty of a crime in a court of law and be put on death row - a consequence that should be enacted for white collar criminals who are stealing other’s livelihood, savings and retirement.
What was happening in Kenya was outright bloodshed against Odinga’s opponents supporters. Can you imagine mercenaries blowing up your house and shooting you and your family? Just right out of the blue?
Totally different instances Reformer.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
No, not the actual event, the mindset behind it. The bottom line is you're saying it's wrong to kill in some instances and right in others. I don't agree. It's always wrong to kill. Haven't you heard of God's grace? He can reform the worst of the worst serial killer. No one should be put to death. I think that advocating the death penalty is not very "Christian" at all. Like I said, I'm pro-life. Which means all life.
October 13th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Okay, so I epitomize everything that is wrong with Christianity today.
Now that I’ve been accused, I would like to be told why. Why do I epitomize everything that is wrong with christianity today? What is it about me that you have learned from my blog posts that makes me the worst representation of Christianity ever?
October 13th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Fair enough - I respect that but dont agree
October 13th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
jaspercreel, you have made statements to the effect that the war in Iraq is just because it is a war on terror which has prevented extremists from attacking the U.S. But there is abundant evidence that before the war the Bush administration suppressed evidence gathered by the CIA that showed that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda or 9/11. There is also the fact that no WMD’s were ever found. And there is the bursting of Bush’s war “bubble” against Iran last year when the National Security Council issued a report stating that Iran was not developing a nuclear weapon.
But to see what American intentions regarding Iraq really were, one need only look at the actions of Lewis Paul Bremer III, Director of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for post-war Iraq following the 2003 invasion, and a Bush appointee. See how he privatized Iraqi national resources, allowing up to 100 percent foreign ownership of key Iraqi assets, and how he granted diplomatic immunity to all foreign contractors working in Iraq after the invasion. Does the word “rape” mean anything to you?
But you say that McCain and Palin have servants’ hearts. I don’t know about that, since I can only judge deeds. And if we get back to the original point of this particular post, we see McCain and Palin presiding over some pretty ugly election rallies, and doing nothing to rebuke that ugliness until very recently. So far, only McCain seems to be trying to rein in the ugliness of his supporters, and feebly at that, and I’d guess that he is trying to strike a more civil tone because he has noticed that the media is noticing the ugliness. Palin on the other hand is charging ahead full bore with ugliness, and is saying nothing to rebuke McCain/Palin supporters who hurl racial insults at others and who demand the death of Obama.
When the disciples of Christ demanded the death by fire of a certain Samaritan village because it did not welcome the Lord, He rebuked His disciples. How do you see McCain or especially Palin imitating Christ here? Rather than running a campaign based on honest discussions of issues and policy, they have resorted to symbolism, emotionalism, sloganeering, and baseless attacks on Obama by saying such things as “He pals around with terrorists” (PROVE IT, why don’t you!), or, “His middle name is Hussein” (SO WHAT?). By their baseless innuendo and their toleration of an increasingly bigoted and hateful base of supporters they have disqualified themselves from the Presidency. I am a member of a minority, and seeing what they have tolerated and the behavior they have actually promoted in their campaign, I’d sooner cut my own throat than vote for them.
One last thing. Christians in America need to rediscover the beauty of exercising critical thinking skills. Not that we have all thrown them away, but I have noticed especially in Charismatic and Pentecostal circles a tendency to worship the heart and to despise the brain. God made both.
October 13th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
THinOC
One last thing. Christians in America need to rediscover the beauty of exercising critical thinking skills. Not that we have all thrown them away, but I have noticed especially in Charismatic and Pentecostal circles a tendency to worship the heart and to despise the brain. God made both.
JAIAM:
Good point - thats why I like this blog - I actually have to learn to back up what I say here - never had to do that hanging around right wing Christians.
October 14th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Sorry to make it personal…not what I was going for.
When you say statements like “McCain is a Godlier man then Obama” or “there is more reverence for God in McCain than in Obama” you sound very ignorant and typify what is wrong with Christianity today. You don’t personally know either man. You are going off of what Charisma magazine, TBN, or some conservative talk radio host has told you. You should never say one person is more Godly then another because it’s not our place to judge someone’s Christianity. We can judge their actions, their wrong-doings, or their lies, but we can never judge their standing before God. His grace is sufficient for all “wrong” behavior. We have no idea how God see’s other people or who will or won’t be in heaven. Just like McCain, Obama has professed his faith in Jesus Christ. He has dedicated his life to the service of others and been a faithful member of his church. None of us know his true place in the Kingdom. As the old saying goes, never judge a book by its cover. If it’s the pro-choice thing you’re hung up on, remember that before 2000 McCain was pro-choice as well, it wasn’t until he lost the republican nomination to Bush that he realized he had to change his tune in order to appeal to the right wing. Politics is a game; people say and do things on both sides, that aren’t necessarily a reflection of them, in order to get elected.
So the bottom line for me (not sure about Cat) is that you typify the problems with Christianity because you are not thinking rationally and independently. I have no problem with you supporting McCain. If that’s who you like, that’s who you like. My problem is when you and all other Christian’s base your reasoning on faith. Unless you have hung out with McCain and Obama, you have no idea where their faith is. Just because you read a report in a magazine, listen to a rant on talk radio, hear a message by a pastor, or watch a special on Fox News, doesn’t mean you have the truth. You and all other Christians should stop being herded around like sheep, listening to the James Dobson’s and Steven Strange’s of the world thinking that a republican is more righteous then a democrat because they are pro-life and anti-gay. THAT’S JUST DOWN RIGHT RIDICULOUS! Christian “leaders” (and I use that word loosely) have no right to tell Christians how they should vote. It’s time for all Christians to start thinking with their heads in a clear and unclouded fashion. As TH in SoC said:
October 14th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Cool. I’m glad that you see the point and appriciate your comments on here.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:18 am
This is very disturbing…but an example of what McCain and Palin have stirred up with the BS that they are promoting. It has completely backfired and this election could turn into a landslide for Obama.
WARNING: very offensive stuff here…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Esocs9qPRY
At least Palin is getting booed now too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TgDanmWkg&feature=related
October 14th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Reformer, you took the words out of my mouth. Today, anybody can claim to be a Christian. Today’s Christians judge ‘godliness’ by shallow, superficial things.
Fruit? What spiritual fruit is McCain exhibiting? Please explain that specifically. It would be better if you can do so in plain English rather than Christianese