No, it's not another Disney pirate movie. Today I wanted to point out something that really irks me. After last week's article on CBC's annual Faith Harvest I poked around their web site to see what was going on. I discovered something else: CBC is starting a young adults ministry in the Pearl District of downtown Portland. So why does this bother me?
First off, we need some history. CBC had a young adults ministry in downtown Portland in the late 90's. At the time, Steve & Debbie Trujillo were the pastors of Quest, aka young adults ministry. Long story short, they had the vision to reach out to students and young people who were in the heart of downtown Portland. They managed to find a location just a few blocks from the Portland State campus and lobbied Frank and the elders to provide the means to meet down there (the rent wasn't going to be free). Coincidentally, I think it may have been Faith Harvest season (my memory is fuzzy about that) and PF decided to put the decision to the people of the church. Personally, I have to wonder if he was gambling on the idea failing, because they needed $100,000 to get started. Well, that fateful Sunday night he grabbed a baby carriage in the audience and asked people to put money & pledges in the baby carriage to "birth" this ministry. Much to the surprise of everyone (and PF's especially I think), the people came through.
Being a part of "Main Street" was a special time for those of us involved. Because we were no longer on CBC campus we were freed from a lot of restrictions on how to do church, everything from music to preaching to small groups. It was as if God had given us a blank check to do exactly what we had been talking about for years. Within a few months, we had over 300 students meeting every Tuesday night, and we also had an open night on Friday as well that was more of a place to hang out. For many students, Main St. was their church, and we had students driving all the way from Eugene to attend. We were having a direct impact on the exact people we wanted to reach and on top of that, some other ministries began to be launched out of Main St. Steve has always had a heart for the hard cases, those people that others had given up on. His "staff" was filled with young people who had been disenfranchised by institutional churches, and he also made a point to reach out to the poor and the homeless downtown during that time.
But Main Street ended after just a year. I don't want to gossip about the details about the why's of this, but the bottom line was that PF pulled the plug and the primary reason given was financial. I guess he felt that it was too expensive to maintain a ministry that was not directly under his thumb or taking in tithes on the campus. It was a huge blow to the morale of those of involved. Many young people, including staffers, abandoned Quest and it remained in limbo for a year. Steve and Debbie finally decided to move out and start their own church in downtown Portland, and after much wrangling with the CBC eldership finally obtained their "blessing" and were sent down there. Steve was true to his ideals and has since spent his efforts on building a small church downtown that is focused on bringing relief to the downtrodden, both physically and spiritually. (I should also mention that Quest was absorbed by the Teen Ministry under Doug Lasit, and CBC had no separate young adults ministry for years.)
The Father's House is the culmination of Steve & Debbie's vision to have a direct impact on those people living downtown. They have also continued to minister directly to the homeless and street community of PDX in many ways, and have been recognized for their efforts on more than one occasion by city officials including the Mayor and Chief of Police, and others. Steve is the kind of humble guy who would be the first to admit that God provided the opportunities to do these things that he's been praying for for years. Ultimately, his "failure" at CBC led to his greatest success in fulfilling his dream to be a part of a very special ministry. One only has to look at pictures like this one or this one to know that he gets it when it comes to what church is supposed to be about and how money fits into that. (Isaiah 58)
So, back to the original topic! Why is CBC now suddenly concerned about the young adults of Portland? Ironically, they've once again chosen downtown Portland as their meeting place. I guess now that PF has campuses all over the city that he controls, one more isn't going to be a problem. Nor did they choose a poorer neighborhood, but the Pearl District which has seen a recent influx of culture and money over the past 5 or so years. I think it had more to do with being someplace cool and trendy ($) rather than trying to step on Steve's turf. Rather than directly support the Father's House, they want to move in a mere 20 blocks or so from another church that they themselves planted and have since ignored (financially or by recognition) despite having Jack Louman as a non-resident "elder". They want to restart a ministry PF killed a decade ago for reasons that seem less than credible. With the Lasit's on their way out to Denver, I suppose they'll be divvying up the pastoral duties to new staffers which includes the new young adults group Origin . I'm sure that Ranjy Thomas is a fine young man, and I have no beef with the guy. But I can't help but shake my head at this move because it reinforces my opinion of PF that he's OK with a good idea as long as it's his idea and he can control it.
One a side note, I'm curious about this meeting location. Google Streetview just shows a few parking lots for trucks and MAX trains. Is this the correct address?
A few thoughts.
1) Back when City Bible started their ministry downtown, it was just downtown. The Pearl was in its infancy and didn’t have the same cache it does now. A church in The Pearl sounds cool, now. And it helps confirm CBC’s image of themselves, as a trendy urban church. (uh which, it’s not.)
2) I suspect that PF realizes he made a mistake in how he handled the original downtown campus. He lost a lot of people during that move, and I think he’s hoping to gain some of that crowd back by starting a church in the Pearl.
3) The Pearl is one of the wealthier neighborhoods in Portland aka more tithe money.
I met Ranjy once. He was a real nice guy.
I would say it’s because City Church opened their Belltown and University campuses. CBC is always just a couple years behind City Church.
From what I recall the downtown ministry started after measure 36 as an outreach to PSU students. They used to meet in the PSU cafeteria. I remember all the talk about reaching out, loving PSU students and others downtown that disagree with us and broken people that need Christ etc… Looking back it was all talk.
Then they got their own building in the Pearl where they meet now. Then origin started for college grads & more like a young professionals clique. It’s closer to the ideal CBC image. Never mind if those who dont fit their mold are out of the way. They are no longer present in PSU and no one has heard of them there, even though they used to be listed on PSU activities and clubs directory.
Its the same ol’ Genchurch formula for older people. It’s again an irrelevant social club rather than a way to truly connect with the Body of Christ.
Nina, that’s another reason I’m really irked about this. The Father’s House meets on the PSU campus. It’s almost as if the CBC leadership is flaunting the fact that they don’t care about the Father’s House ministry. I’ve always been puzzled as to why Steve retains ties to CBC, but then he’s a much more gracious man than I’ll ever be.
Hey guys, as one of the people who is helping start the Origin gathering in the pearl, I’d like to separate fact from pre-existing biases if I may.
-PF isn’t starting a church in the pearl. Its actually the building that Ranjy leases for his animation company, so it doesn’t cost the church anything to use it.
-the Origin event was initiated by, and is put on by people like myself, none of who are “staffers” of CBC, not even Ranjy.
-the service isn’t really even a service at all, but rather more like a small group on a larger scale. No band, no preaching, no offering. Instead its acoustic guitar, dialogue about relevant issues, and a full meal done good old-fashioned potluck style. (you know you love it) There is no attempt to be trendy, and the location is more out of convenience than intention. The idea is to create a venue where people can ask tough questions about Theology, church methodology, social responsibility, etc. And have a time to relax and just be quiet before God, just like doing personal devotions in your room.
-2nd the Pope’s comment: Ranjy is a really nice guy. Understated.
Just Want to Be Real,
Thanks for your comments. We always love getting to hear the other side.
Is this really a place where people can ask tough questions and when they do, how are they handled? It’s been my experiance with CBC that if you ask a tough questions you get blown off (typically with and answer such as “You know who would be great at answering that? Lanny Hubbard) or you get a lame pat answer.
What are your thoughts?
Yes, thanks for the info “Just want the real”.
However, the front page of the CBC web site bills it as the “Pearl Campus”. The locations portion of the web site also lists it as one of the primary campuses. That sure makes it sound like a sanctioned alternative to the other campuses, don’t you think? It’s being presented on par with the 217 and Mill Plain campuses.
The Facebook group page lists him as the “Origin District Pastor”. Is this correct? Is he a volunteer?
Can I provide one last challenge? If you are seriously interested in social challenges, perhaps you can as a group or individually offer to volunteer with the Father’s House? I think it would provide the obvious outlet for walking out what you’re talking about, plus it would go a long way to generate good will between Father’s House and CBC. How can you say no to a win/win proposition like that?
http://www.fathershouseportland.com/#/communityministries/4531405148
One more personal note. I realize I may be holding a grudge here because of the history I’ve talked about, God forgive me if that is the case. I may have jumped to conclusions here, which is why I suggested that Origin extends a helping hand & olive branch to Steve’s church. I don’t want to start fights here, but I do want to hold people accountable for how they treat their brothers, especially ones who have such close ties to each other. That said, I hope that some kind of synergy can come of this rather than more “us vs. them” mentality.
Just Real, I appreciate the clarification. However, what you describe is not what City Bible is promoting. They are acting like this Pearl Church is their fourth Campus, which it’s clearly not. Tell Ranj he’d be better off ditching his affiliation with City Bible, and just running this enterprise on his own.
It’s great that you get to ask the questions, but who is giving the answers? I asked a lot of tough questions during my days at BT/CBC and all I got was the typical Christian answers…go read your Bible more, pray harder, give more of your time/money, stay away from worldly influences, shut up and wait on the Lord, etc. etc. Not to be mean but what good is it to have a venue that provides useless information? It’s the blind leading the blind…kind like when Judah preaches. The man can preach better then anyone I’ve ever heard, but the stuff that’s coming out of his mouth is the wrong gospel.
Pope- Being that its a pretty brand new endeavor, and we’ve only met 3 times, so far we’ve discussed building true community in a large church, and social responsibility. What we the “party planning committee” did was brainstorm every topic we would like to see brought to the table, though since we meet twice a month its going to take awhile to get to everything. I’ll keep you posted. Our plan is to have different people field different topics, have some of the leadership in to speak candidly about things. I’m sorry your experience was a bad one.
Belteshazzar- Great proposition. I would love to utilize existing network to reach the community, no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel. I’ll look into this. And yes Ranjy is the Origin pastor, and yes he does it voluntarily, though he definitely doesn’t have the time or desire to branch off and do his own thing. You guys are right in that what once was the PSU Gen service did relocate to Ranjy’s building, from what I gather because PSU was kicking them out right after service, and Doug wanted more time for people to be able to stay and hang out. The Gen service still happens there on Wed nights, hence PF’s claim to it as a campus. When he mentions it as such, its always with a qualifier. Does he have a right to the claim? Debatable. Whatev. *shrug*
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I’m with Cat. If dude already has the space, and the attendance, he should run that ship on his own.
Aren’t they afraid they’ll lose their original flavor if they pair up in any way shape or form with CBC? Detox Church Group would be! Control is always the name of the game and what starts out one way can end up another -hence the original story.
Please be careful who you are dealing with. The Pearl District is too great a place to waste and the problems of the people there –cool, chic and trendy as they may be are just a mask for what’s underneath. No neat church formulas are going to apply here as I’ve worked in that area with the artistic crowd. The challenges you’ll meet with be everything you can conceive of in our current culture.
I wondered why they missed this jewel of the city, but after understanding how it works there I was glad. Now I’m concerned for you. Hope it goes well this second time. Personally I think you’d be better off being a completely separate ministry group from the Dome crowd. After reading this blog of personal experience why do you think it will go well working with CBC?
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The services in the Pearl started in the early summer of 2007. Previously “Generation Church Downtown” had a service every Wednesday night @ PSU. For two years they met in various buildings on the campus, but had mainly met in the cafeteria; which they had to be out of by 10pm. Overall, Generation Church between the Pearl site and the various sites on PSU has been going on for 4-years plus.
Ranjy offered CBC to relocate this ministry to his warehouse in the Pearl and they decided to move the service. Not only because they had to evacuate the building by 10, but because all of the instruments, chairs, sound system, etc… had to be transported, set up and taken down each week. So the attendance at the pearl is not an Origens meeting, it is the Generation Church college age ministry, which moved from Portland States campus and within that group are people involved in the Origens group.
Gen Church is still somewhat of a presence at the PSU campus, but definitely not the presence they were before. This is a natural progression, given their relocation. And there have been continual discussions about how the church can better reach the school.
Also, there are a few small groups that have a grass roots homeless ministry in the area. and the homeless are constantly attending services.
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If people are happy in a place like CBC I’m glad for them too.
I’ll say that my experience is exactly the same as Reformers. I only left CBC recently. I have also been in the Pearl and been to Origin events. It is not at all like a small group – larger scale.
I have too asked questions about theology, social responsibility and real life issues and received the same kind of response. Even pastors cannot seem to answer questions beyond the standard cliched response. I’ve been given the same “you should read your bible more” and having faith etc… Or they try to “minister” to me by giving me more cliched responses, “advice” in a patronizing tone as though I’m illiterate or in 2nd grade.
As for being yourself and open, well, when I shared a testimony of a past struggle, I’ve been gossiped about and other believers shunned me and treated me differently in a negative way. Because of the fact I faced many struggles in the past and been a “bad” Christian, I had others talk down to me. I know that God has forgiven me. But in some Christian circles I’ll always be a perpetual proselyte.
I got tired of that and left. I have never been happier
Ian,
I can understand how set up and tear down can be a hassle. I was there. However, where is the church’s presence on campus? Is GC Downtown doing anything to connect to PSU and be meaningfully involved with PSU? From what I’m seeing – nada.
Not many people have ever heard of GC Downtown in PSU. Then again, I want to experince the presence of God and the essence of who Christ is. I do NOT want to experience the charismatic megachurch culture. In fact, that is why many people I encounter do not want to come to Christ. The truth beyond churchianity is what would influence PSU or any place. If you have been in that area you know how many people are hungry for truth. I see needs all the time.
Everybody in the GC Downtown are PBCers, CBC leaders and regulars. I have yet to meet a person that is new and I mean as in being brand new to Christ and from a non-Christian background. Almost everyone had a Christian background.
I still continue to view CBC groups as an irrelevant social club rather than a way to connect to the Body of Christ.
I think the most memorable (or ONLY memorable) interaction CBC/GC has had with PSU is when they set up a table on campus in support of Ballot Measure 36. There was name calling and spitting, from what I read (in an article I can’t find online…but in search for it I found this):
http://wweek.com/story.php?story=5791
After reading Nina and Reformer stories the real question seems to be
how much does the Pearl District need a Latter Rain Church Group?
Why not bring in Real Christianity instead that actually meets people’s
needs?
Not that it is anything new, but I’ve recently heard from some younger folk up at the RB campus. When they brought some “unsaved” or “gay” friends up to the Wed. night meetings, they got the ‘leper’ treatment. Most of the ‘new’ people weren’t interested in coming back.
It is just sad that the church raised people cannot relate to those in the world that are searching for truth! Jesus wasn’t afraid to sit down and eat and drink with the everyday people, so the Pharisees said He was a drunkard and a glutton. You might even think there is a pattern there!
A young lady I know who grew up in GenChurch recently visited after about a 3-year absence. Not one person talked to her — not one — and yes, they recognized her. She did find the tithing speech by Michael Meyers amusing — apparently he’s perfected the look and the lingo.
Anna, seems like a bit of a low blow for someone like you? I’m surprised.
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Eventually you either completely buy in, or you leave. Once you begin to really understand their core values, then it’s all or nothing. It really reminds me of Amway and Excel, both of which rotated heavily in church circles. You really can’t afford to be an independent voice.
It makes me wonder if they preached the Gospel as often as they talked about tithing and money if they would see the revival that they are always praying for.
Once you understand the difference between Latter Rain Doctrine and
true Christianity you see you were buying what was fake or appeared to be
gold – but wasn’t.
Until you see we were being taught ‘a different gospel’ you will always be
batting at windmills, trying to make them act, talk and walk like true Christians.It simply can’t be done because the foundations and belief, while sounding similar, are not the same.
Check out every site you can find that tells you the difference. Its the heart of the problem. Weirdness and a coldness to the down and out or different is just ” fruit of this doctrine.”
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John 14:21, “He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and will disclose Myself to him.”
Carefully study what Jesus has to say, and put it into practice. This takes all the confusion out of what the “will of God” is for your life. God’s will is for you to do what Christ instructed. (Matt.28:19-20) It also encompasses what it means to live a life of holiness. (Hebrews 12:14)
Quit worrying about meetings, and buildings, and paying tithes.
RP, you’re right. I’m sorry.
I was just sad (and a little mad) that they are so locked into their culture that they can’t be nice to someone outside their circle.
Also this (and I will try to say it without picking on the person I mentioned before and should not have — sorry again): There is this mindset CBC parents regarding their “prodigals.” Those are the children who are not following the CBC idea of Christianity, or maybe are not even walking with God. These parents do everything in their power to get these children back to church. There are prophecies about the prodigals and everybody claps.
But truth be told, CBC parents are not happy unless these children are back into the CBC fold, doing the CBC thing and talking the CBC talk. They are using parental acceptance as a form of control over their kids and it makes me mad.
It’s just an extension of the same control GenChurch uses over their own little flock (look like us, talk like us, wave your hands like us — and we’ll accept you).
Then everybody’s happy that the “prodigal” has come home, but how many of those children have actually gone through the Cross and found a true relationship with the Father? I wonder, don’t you?
So there’s my explanation for my rude comment. Again, I’m sorry.
Don’t be so quick to cave in. I see no need to apologize…..the accusation was groundless, IMO.
Fact is, your point was well-taken.
-joe
Thanks, joebib. You are kind. But I really should not have mentioned the person’s name. I did it in the heat of annoyance at how a young person I know was treated.
I should have kept the comment limited to the brainwashing Stepford syndrome. (Except that anyone who knows the person mentioned will see that as especially grievous.)
Funny, I always kinda liked that movie.
-joe
I know what you are saying anna, and agree with you, but OTOH, who among us doesn’t do the same thing, and endeavor to raise our kids according to our own belief-system? In my view, that is a parent’s responsibility:
And so, I can’t fault the parents for simply using this or that method to admonish their children towards the correct path as they see it, nor for wanting them to reflect their own standard.
It’s just too bad if/when they become mis-informed and only see things through that potentially mistaken bias.
-joe
Well if you really want ‘the real to be said’,
then don’t water things down and say the Pearl is a potluck old fashioned sit down with discussions. There is a band, there is preaching, and there is an offering.
I currently attend PBC and do the pearl as practicum and as my ministry outlet besides having my own artist small group. So I know for a fact that the Pearl has all those things in their service. It is a branch from CBC, however it is an outlet that is really springing forth for new people to come in and be welcomed and may not even know about Frank or whats going on at CBC. Tides are changing, in aggreance to Ian, the homeless are attending, we are working on ways to go and reach PSU once again. Given the circumstances of the Lasits moving and taking key leaders with them, shifting is occuring making it slower to impliment the new ideas and ways about doing things. I don’t have history with CBC like most of you do, in part my home pastors back in NY warned me of many things before i came to attend this school.
I certainly have my issues with CBC even though I attend PBC, but I am certainly giving them the benefit of the doubt with this new campus. Especially because we have some great leaders springing forth with good hearts to make change, who now what an irresistable revolution is about, slightly emergant ideas and willing to work with fathers heart and mosaic and imago dei, ext.. Who are not CBC-esque, and do not fit their mold. and who won’t conform to fit their mold. Ranji is a great guy who does volunteer pastoring and lead Origins, which is a seperate ministry from the Pearl, He rarely even attends the Pearl himself, yet just graciously allows us to use his building.
Thanks, Luann. But I have to admit I’m a bit confused now. The CBC web site bills The Pearl as an Origin event. Yet Ranji doesn’t lead it. So who is leading this thing and for what purpose? Is it just being wrangled by people like yourself without a clear leader? How much input does PF have in what goes on here? Who preaches? If the building use is donated, where does the offering money go? Why donate a building for an event that you “pastor” but don’t attend?
As an aside, I find it curious that you’d want to go to PBC despite being “warned”. But that’s a topic for another thread.
Sorry but this only raises more questions for me. Clearly, you wouldn’t be down there at all without the free rent, and I wonder if it’s just a matter of time before the plug gets pulled due to lost location, money, or church politics.
On the other hand, I’m glad to hear you’re connected with people outside of CBC/PBC.
As I said in my comment, it’s a Generation Church service…just like the three other services that happen on Wednesday night… Doug oversees all the campuses, Poncho is the youth pastor at Millplain, Asim at Rocky Butte, Ben at 217, and Pastor Doug oversees the Pearl campus. Pastor Doug usually preaches at the Pearl.
Doug is leading/over seeing this ministry.
soon to be handed over to Mark Estes.
Ranji doesn’t pastor the Pearl, just Origins.
unclear how much input PF has, but I know
He’s never down there and I bet He couldn’t
answer questions about it if anyone were to
ask besides it’s a campus downtown for
young adults.
I’m just apart of the volunteer group
that hosts small groups- tear down and set up -
and occasionally evangelise at PSU.
The offering money isn’t these huge amounts
you guys think it is. it’s an offering.
a few loose bills. I hope the plug isn’t
pulled anytime soon. I haven’t been here long enough
to see any of that go down.
There a few people who
have really dedicated there time to keep
the place going despite financial hold backs
and lack of enthusiasm for the place.
They say its an Origins event because a few people
from Origins come. That’s because Origins is for young adults
and the Pearl is for young adults as well.
I wouldn’t state its an Origins event and not sure why the
website would say it is. that’s something i can/will ask about.
If I understand it right, Origin is the CBC ministry for 22-35 and Ranjy and his wife are the pastors of that. GC Downtown is a college ministry and Doug is the current pastor of that. Pearl is just the building “name” that they meet in.
Origin meets on Saturdays and is more like a small group and discussion. GC Downtown meets on Wednesdays and is a youth service for college kids. So I guess there is no misrepresentation.
The only point you may have is what is the definition of a campus? Maybe the Flying Rhino building or “Pearl Campus” shouldn’t qualify as it is more like a nice person opening up his home for a small group then it is a new church building.
It looks like what Origin is doing is what the City Business people have been suggesting for a long time- an forum for discussion
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Hey no reason for that.
Anyways. I just think it’s ridiculous how I grew up in that church and spent every day practically with those people and when I went back not even one person said hi, just glares. I don’t care, trust me I am SO glad that I’m not one of them. I just wish they would realize that they’re in their own little world there in church raising their hands, giving offerings, saying a whole bunch of cliches every 5 minutes.. and that there’s a whole world out there…. and maybe theirs isn’t the one and all only right thing in the world and just because they are in a stupid little group of people in a building doesn’t make them any better than anybody else.
Honestly, after going back there after a few years, they looked like a bunch of crazies. All these kids my age, dressed all the same, all preppy abercrombie whatever. The guys all look like their either gay or Russian. They are all standing around raising their hands for no real reason. Because they weren’t worshipping. They were raising their hands and looking around at people. Then the pastor gets up there (not mentioning any names) and says like 70 cliche phrases in a row that don’t mean aaaaanything and the kids are all like yay!! yes! “Give a seed and it will turn into a beautiful flower!” “hooray!”
I just do not understand how they are all content living such a small fake life that people made for them, believing in just what all the people around them have told them to believe in. BUT I guess if they’re happy with their friends and their life and their bmws they drive because their parents tithe, then there isn’t a reason to leave. So yay for them. That is just not for me.
This is definitely one of the best comments I have read on this blog.
checkmarks, I totally agree. That is exactly my experience when I visited. I thought why not go and see people that I havent seen for ages. I used to hang out with them all the time. Dang it. when I visited one of their events I wished that I never came and that it was a bad idea. With an exception of 2 people, most people are fake and cannot see beyond their own world and self. I stayed w/ these 2.
I was close to one person. Once this person got into leadership, this person started becoming very snotty, arrogant and wouldnt even talk to me anymore and only associated with the “elites”. I have no regrets because this helps me understand who my true friends are I’ll admit that I was a bit hurt when I found out that most of my “friends” were totally fake. I moved on and finding new friends who are the total opposite. It is a true blessing to know people that are genuine, accepting and not like them.
Then u have people that view me as a “backslider” and want to save my soul by giving me every cliched response. They think they are doing me a favor by that. When I’m around them, I wished that I never even opened my mouth. Silence is the best way to deal with these fanatics. Let them be in their own world.
I am still friends with a couple of people who arent too CBCesque. They know where I stand on things. I still hang out with them. I decided the best thing to do is move on. I decided that I’m no longer going to attend CBC events, conferences or anything else including small groups. I visited a small group and it was the same BS.
Oh man, this is classic stuff. Thanks for the laugh. You hit the nail on the head! Ain’t if funny how these people think they are the center of the universe? When I moved to Cali and started church hoping to find a place for my wife and I, not one place I went or one person I met had even ever heard of City Bible. Outside their circle they are completely irrelevant.