So its snowing here in Portland (yes, Portland Snow…which isn't much, but will eventually turn to ice and then we will all be stuck in). And it's Sunday morning so I went to my churches website to see if they have canceled today's service or not…of course since my church is rather small they haven't bothered to update the website yet. No big deal…my next thought was to go to City Bible's website (so what if i'm mildly obsessed with the boobs on Rocky Butte) to see if they have canceled their service…and then to see if they are still asking for money.
OF COURSE THEY ARE.
A week can not go by where Frank Damazio doesn't ask someone for a handout. He's like a successful version of the guy standing on the street corner holding the sign.
"Will preach for food".
"Bet you can't hit me with your tithe"
"Faith Harvest Vet…Anything Helps"
"Why lie…I need a bigger church than that bastard Wendall up in Seattle"
You've all seen the signs. Anyhow, here is CBC's Snow Day announcement:
Dear Congregation:
Due to the snow and poor road conditions there will be no 11 a.m. service on any of the campuses today, Dec. 14. Spanish and other International Ministry services are also canceled . We will be posting a video of the 9:00 a.m. service on our website this evening. Remember that you can give online as well.
For those with Blessing Tree gift tags, please return those gifts with the tag to the church by Wed. of this week.
Thanks so much for being a great congregation and may God bless you richly!
In Christ,
Pastor Frank Damazio
Remember that you can give online as well…How could they ever forget?
I think I need to set up an online giving site for my bank account!!
If I wanted to give the same message and be strategic, I would have put the giving statement at the end of the second paragraph. The way it is written it equates church attendance to giving. If it were arranged differently it could read, remember to bring your gifts for needy children. You can also give your offering this week as well. Now it reads, you can give to the church online. Oh yeah, don’t forgive to give to those kids too. It just comes off differently.
It is so funny because my new church does not pass the plate or remind people to give, even on Sunday.
“Remember that you can give online as well.”
And if you don’t God will send a nasty virus to your computer, destroy all your files, and prevent you from ever logging on to the CBC website again.
I pray for the owners and writers of this site daily : )
Whether you like it or not someday you will understand
with love
Josh
Josh says.
Most of us attended there for years, gave the prime years of our life to BT/CBC… we were used and abused and duped and hung out to dry. I pray that you will find out before it is to late, count your losses and quickly walk away from it all.
That one was hilarious!
City Bible Church Member sounds so much more spiritually enlighted, since they decided to let us know they’re praying for us. Maybe I’m just sensitive, but it sounded a bit backhanded, didn’t it?
It’s funny how many people from CBC claim to be “praying” for us. I’m always curious what that prayer would look like? Are they asking God to strike us down? Are they praying we see the light?
With all the people “praying for us” I’m begining to think God doesn’t answer many CBC prayers. Sure hasn’t had an effect on us anyway.
This is random but…
Two days back, while sitting on the MAX, a crackpot starts conversing with me. He rambled on random things and skipped around. Let’s just say that I had a much more intelligible conversation with a downtown crackpot than any charismatic fanatic from CBC that only spews cliches and cannot talk anything substantial.
[Comment ID #36070 Will Be Quoted Here]I’d be pretty sure they are asking God to shut down the opposition to CBC. That’s what used to go on when they (and I) prayed to have the porno shops on 82nd shut down. I wouldn’t worry about it too much, I never saw more than 10-15 people signed in for prayer at the prayer center at RB. They have been working on shutting down the porno shops for 5 to 10 years now, with no results so far.
Most of the 10-15 folks who prayed up there were foreign students at PBC.
I don’t think they really want too many praying, because if too many started hearing the same thing from God, why would you need ‘leadership”? Not to mention the likelyhood of hearing a conflicting message as opposed to the “official” one.
This being Christmas and all, I think it might be time to dig out that CD from 2004, seeing as it’s still relevant.
Remember the one with these songs:
1. Little Tither Boy
2. O Holy Tithe
3. God Rest Ye Merry Businessmen
4. O Come All Ye Faithful Givers
5. What Tithe Is This?
6. It Was Simulcast Upon A Midnight Clear
7. Tithers We Have Heard On High
8. Joy To The West Side
9. I’ll Be Home For Faith Harvest
10. I Saw Three Checks Come Mailing In
11. Rockin Around The Tithe Bowl
Dear City Bible Church Member:
“Whether you like it or not someday YOU will understand.” I didn’t “like it” when I “understood” the truth about CBC. It about broke my heart. It was excrutiating. Simultaneously liberating, however. Now, I “like it” very much. Saved my life. Restored my heart. Undertanding.
I just hope you come to “understand” while you still have time to live your life differently (rather than on the day or reckoning, not that you won’t be saved, but once you see the truth about the CBC system–truly see it with your heart–you will yearn for another day to live your Christian life differently on earth, before unbelievers, so that some might be saved). I won’t claim to “pray for you daily,” because that would be insincere and untrue. I will just hope that someday SOON you will “understand.”
Peace.
Why don’t they understand that prayer works two ways and its the Lord who in the end will decide what will be done. I too was one of those people who hung out in the prayer room constantly. I’m so glad now I’m free to pray as I move among people now and not cloistered up on some hill; kind of like the Lord taught us to do.
We laugh as the cool pastor where we attend in freedom shared when he was a new believer he used to march around and “tell God what to do.” Since he has matured and learned how God works and that He can’t figure everything out, he now does a lot less ‘demanding’ and instead asks for God’s will to be done, a whole lot more. Sounds like a plan here!
It’s such a relief when you find out you don’t have to try to run the world any longer.
Why don’t the people who prayed over the SUV’s and the Wall Street statue take a stab at it. Maybe we don’t have it all figured out from elections to housing crisis to bailouts.
Have to ask ” so how’s that method been working for you lately?
I still get the emails from Pastor Frank and look what was in my inbox this morning!
That is perfect.
We’ve been hearing alot about how this economy is really hurting CBC and this is just another sign.
Anna, thanks for bringing back the Christmas song list. That really is classic.
An oldie but a goodie could be added to that song list:
“It’s Beginning to Look Alot Like Guilt-mas”
It’s beginning to look alot like Guilt-mas,
Everywhere you go.
Make your checks out to Me and Mine,
You can even gives tithes online,
We’ll stick it to that early Winter snow!
It’s beginning to look alot like Guilt-mas,
Soon the bells will chime
and the thing that’ll make them ring
are the silver “ching-a-lings”
when you give your last dime.
That song is brilliant.
Thanks. It’s sorta a hobby of mine.
Anybody familiar with The Pretenders “2000 Miles”?
Here ya’ go:
2000 Tithes
by The Pretentioners
He’s counting a-a-all
2000 ti-i-ithes
It’s very far
The funds have fa-a-allen down
they’re smaller and he says,
“I miss you”
The children are singing,
“Tithes, come back at Christmas time!”
[Comment ID #36092 Will Be Quoted Here]
I’m not a “fan” of CBC and MFI-related churches in general, but as someone who works for a non-profit organization I can attest to the validity of his assertion. Giving to non-profits DOES markedly increase at the end of the year, both due to the desire people have to give because of the season and due to folks wanting to get in last-minute tax deductions.
Ministries and churches who give out extra food and give toys to the needy in their community REALLY depend on this increase at the end of the year and have adjusted their budgets accordingly. Of course, with this economy churches and non-profits have HAD to “downsize” while trusting the Lord to provide what’s needed to get through.
While we’re on the topic of slightly insincere Christmas songs, some of you might appreciate this.
[Comment ID #36067 Will Be Quoted Here]
Josh, since you are bearing a cross for this site and its readers/writers, here’s a little guidance when you pray:
1) Pray that we will continue to grow deeper in our understanding of the Gospel and that God would daily purge us of the false structure of legalism that CBC type churches have instilled in so many of us over the years.
2) Pray that God will continue to give us a platform and a voice, and allow us to clearly communicate His truths to others.
3) Pray that the message of wealth over health, success over souls, and greed over grace that pours out of so many prosperity driven, evangelical MFI churches would be shot down by grassroots efforts like ours and that my generation would spike a new movement towards Gospel centered living.
Thanks for your support!
Reformer-
Good points. May I add a 4th?
4) Pray that we will have an ever greater love for God and His Word.
-joe
Reformer and Joebib – I’d like to add a 5th point.
5) After years of listening to Frank use numbered points in his sermons, please help us to state our case without enumerating every point. It just feels, so, so “Sesame Street”.
I just so happen to come across your site by looking for something else and the only thing I have to say is I hope you find joy in bashing other churches and other men and women of God all in the name of Jesus. Show me where in the Bible that it says it’s okay to do such a thing. Jesus told us that the world would know us by our love for one another, but the only thing you have shown me is something that is pathetic. No wonder the world sees us as divided, because those that say they are in the church are backbiting and gossipping about one another and probably saying, “Bless you brother” to each others faces.
You can say whatever you want about me once I leave this response. The one thing I would like for you to ask yourself is, “Am I really bringing glory to God with all the bashing and backbiting on this website?”
I do hope you find something more useful to do for the Kingdom of God, because this is really pathetic.
Josh
[Comment ID #36068 Will Be Quoted Here]
Do you consider yourself a christian…if so, then you shouldn’t be bashing your former church or it’s leaders. Learn some respect…as well as christian love.
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[Comment ID #36124 Will Be Quoted Here]
Be careful before you start to question someone’s Christianity. That puts you in a very dark place. Only God can judge the heart, and I think we will all be very surprised who is spending eternity with Him, and who isn’t. (Not like any of us will care at the point, but you get the idea). Although I do not like CBC, MFI, or any of the related prosperity driven churches and their money grubbing leaders that are out there, I’ve never said they weren’t Christians or followers of Christ. I’ve questioned their behavior and their motives, but not their faith. To imply that people on this blog are not Christian because the “bash” their former church or it’s leaders is a gross misstatement of the truth. You should really be careful before making such a dangerous judgment.
[Comment ID #36134 Will Be Quoted Here]
Mr. Reformer – where did I state or imply that you all weren’t christians. I was simply asking a question. It wasn’t obvious from the actions on this website so I wasn’t going to assume that you were. It’s not for me to judge whether you’re a christian or not (like you seem to be judging CBC).
What I can say (now that I know you are a christian) is that you are definitely acting in unChristian ways. WWJD – would be creating a website slandering his former church and it’s members? No, I don’t think so. Where is the christian love here…I don’t have a problem with you disagreeing with another church, but as long as they are biblically based then go and go in peace…don’t come back to attack them.
Hopefully you can at least agree with that.
Yomama, I know you are addressing Reformer, but I would like to add something.
Many people such as yourself stumble across this blog, and after reading a bit they become offended. They accuse the bloggers of judging, slander, a lack of love, “touching God’s anointed,” and violating the protocol of Matt. 18 in redressing wrongs. These are not new, but since you are new, you may not have read the responses to these comments.
First, a little about “judging.” The Bible is very clear that Christians are supposed to test things (I Thess. 5:21, I John 4:1) and then act accordingly. If something is not biblical, or of another spirit than the Holy Spirit, then it should be rejected.
What would Jesus do? As I recall, He spoke against the harmful doctrine of the pharisees. In the letters to the churches in Rev. 2-3 He also addressed their errors. Was this slander? Of course not. Paul also did not have a problem with evaluating doctrine, and then calling out people whose practices were unbiblical.
At what point on the continuum of doctrine does one decide that a church is no longer biblically based? And at what point does one decide to make a public statement about it? This is rather a subjective call according to a person’s conscience.
Perhaps we can each examine our own hearts as to whether we have acted in love or not. Yes, love is patient and love is kind. But love also rejoices in the truth, and love speaks the truth.
Many people who have attended CBC (some for decades) have the conviction that the prosperity doctrine and the humanistic bent of CBC’s current teaching is not compatible with the gospel or the Cross. After struggling with this conviction, those people begin to talk to leadership about it. Many of those words are brought with tears of love. But as far as I know, without exception, those people find that they are rejected.
Bottom line: there is a lot of history behind this blog and its contributors. You have been offended by the outward appearance. But if you stay long enough, you may discover the heart.
RE: Anna’s last response (sorry, I didn’t want to have the whole thing copied again).
Anna – first a little about myself (since you don’t know me and it would be impossible for you to know me – perhaps one day).
1. I didn’t stumble across this blog and I am not offended. It would be virtually impossible for you to offend me…I am not easily offended.
2. This isn’t my first time on this site. I found out about it a long time ago when someone (not from CBC) mentioned it to me. They were like, you christians even bash each other publicly…and you call yourselves “followers of Christ” (not in those exact words). I couldn’t believe that there was really a website dedicated to bashing another church (CBC). Wow, I was in for a surprise
3. There are some elements to truth to what some of the negative commentators on this site. But a lot of it is people twisting the scripture to support what they want to say. I could go into each one into detail but that would require more a sit down and chat (which I would be willing to do)
What is being done here is a far cry from what Jesus did and called us to do (love others as much as ourselves). When you slander a biblically based church such as CBC (and they do preach from the Bible – maube just not all from the parts you want to hear) and it’s people you are not acting in Christian ways. Instead of destroying let’s build each other up. If you don’t like one particular church find another…but don’t go around bashing them. If CBC bashes you publicly, they are wrong…if you do it to them you are wrong. Why can’t you just agree to disagree and move on?
You had to go and do it didn’t ya? Things were starting to get so peaceful around here, and now you just had to go and logs to the fire. You’ve awoken the sleeping giant. As a movie legend once said, “just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in.â€
So here’s the deal Yomama. I think you (like many of the people who have not left the corrupt system that is MFI) are confused as to why some of us write on this blog. I don’t read and write on this thing simply to “bash” CBC as you put it. Sure there are some things that go too far, but at the end of the day there is truth on here that needs to be presented. Personally (and I’m only speaking for me), I use this blog as a way to share true stories, beliefs and personal opinions, interpretations of scripture, and my new found faith in all things Christ. I have negative things to say about CBC because they treated me in a very negative way. But nothing I’ve ever written is made up or untrue…I’m just speaking from the heart. And regardless of what you think, I have no anger, frustration, or bitterness towards CBC (although I know you guys like to think that cause it helps you feel better about the church you attend). I’m simply speaking out against a corrupt system that makes money and legalism the basis of Christianity, which I personally feel is the downfall of the American church. But CBC is not alone in this wrongness, they just happens to be the place that people who read this thing are familiar with so that’s why it’s the most talked about church on here. However, there are dozens of churches all over America just as bad (if not worse) then CBC, and since I moved to Los Angeles I’ve seen the ridiculousness from some of these establishments even more. So what you call unChristian, I call an important purpose. What you call slander, I call truth. What you don’t want to hear, someone else does. So in the end, this blog will do just as much (if not more) good, as it does bad. So remember this blog does not exist for a person like you, and if it offends you so much then stop wasting your time logging on, reading these things, and commenting about them. I’m sure the City Bible blog would love your input. I personally don’t waste my time on things I don’t enjoy, but hey maybe that’s just me.
No they don’t. Just because you use scriptures in your sermon to back up the points that you want to say does not mean that you preach from the Bible.
I have listened to a number of CBC sermons and have never heard the Bible preached. The majority of Frank Damazio sermons have little to no scripture in them and at the end of his sermon he will rattle off “7 scriptures to write down” that back up whatever he wants to tell you.
Of course you (mama) probably can’t see that becasue you don’t know any better. This is why the church is in such a sad state…people like you are willing to accept watered down (and false) teaching.
For shame.
Yomama,
re #1: You’re right. I assumed you just found this blog and were offended. I did that because your reaction to the blog sounded like the reaction of those who DO just discover it, and ARE offended. I’m sorry I made the wrong assumption.
re #2: I’m not sure what to say except that church disagreement has been a constant since about 40 AD.
re #3: Like everything else, there is a spectrum of bloggers. I don’t imagine any of us will defend the whole lot. But I would enjoy chatting with you in person. Until this is possible, we will have to use this venue.
re your last paragraph: Is strictly your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I disagree with you, but I will move on….
Is it snowing again in Portland? Because if yes, this will be another Sunday with low church attendance. The leadership at City Bible has gotta be panicking.
[Comment ID #36150 Will Be Quoted Here]
Mr. Pope – I haven’t much peacefulness on this blog (unless you mean all the haters agreeing with each other). As I already stated you are not offending me…you really can’t offend me. You do make a lot of assuming (and we all know what happens when you assume). I know I won’t change your opinions on CBC, but it would be great if you could be a little less venemous (christians don’t have to agree on everything but they shouldn’t go around be-littling others). At least Anna seems to maek somewhat intelligent responses and doesn’t just go around insulting people. Jesus is/was full of love, rarely grossly negative and didn’t go around bashing or insulting fellow brethren.
Anna – i’m wasn’t referring to church disagreement (nothing wrong with that). Church bashing is the issue. Folks can disagree and be kind with each other. No need for verbal/written attacks on public forums. I’m not putting you in this category but others (including Mr. Pope) should watch what they say. We all need to be careful as there will be non-christians who frequent this site. If all they see if christians bashing other christians…why would they want to join in that.
That is the basis of what I was trying to say. Can you please at least agree that your negativity is not helping CBC, any other church, or christianity in general.
In closing…let me leave you with one quote (not my own). “And the tenth gift, a very important one these days, is peacefulness – peacefulness with all of our brothers and sisters, here and abroad. For just a little while, we forgive all our trespasses, and forgive those who have trespassed against us. There will be plenty of time to hate later. The only problem is, hatred breeds more hatred, but only peace breeds love.”
Merry Christmas
Things might look different to you if you were to distinguish between the religious institution, denominations, etc., that wrongly call themselves “the church” and focused instead on the Church (ekklesia) – the people of God who have been called out of thw world and assembled by Christ into a Spiritual church/temple.
If my words are strange, consider Revelation 18:4, wherein the Lord calls to His people: “Come OUT of HER my PEOPLE” – who is this “whore” in whom the saints abide, such that the Lord would call them out? What is this beast that has fed on the blood of the saints and prophets (near the end of chapter 18) … what is it that the Lord will throw down with violence?
Many of those ‘churches’ to which you refer, are engaged in whoredom – and God’s people would do well to heed the call of v4 and come out from whoredom to freedom/liberty and life in/by the Spirit.
If you would discern / distinguish rightly, perhaps you would agree and take no offense at what is posted here …
[Comment ID #36156 Will Be Quoted Here]
I am focused on the church…which is why I’m saying it is NOT helpful for you (or any other member of the church) to call another a Whore (including CBC). Let’s leave the name calling to God and worry about the planks in our own eyes first.
No, you haven’t been focused on the church, you’ve been focused on the institution and defending the false doctrines taught by those institutions, such as the false tithe doctrine … the Lord, in scripture has called it a whore and you’re defending it … good luck with that.
BTW, there is no plank in my eye and I’d be glad to help you with yours.
‘Scrupe
This from the “other” cbc website.. .
It always amazes me that in October it is Pastors month and they take an offering, now it is Christmas and they take an offering, and many times for their birthday…
My goodness.. his salary and perks are way and above many people he is “serving” in his church. Why ON EARTH does the church need to “bless him” with MORE money.
On the whore theme… whore’s get compensated for their services… tips as they probably call them.. can these “special offerings” be considered tips?
Well. Let me just say I can understand all your arguments on this and I can totally understand that people get frustrated when a pastor asks for money and sends emails. But I can tell you this that lets say you close a business down for a day. They lose lots of money. Usually open daily they get a daily annual earning… but a church who does have bills and who does have things they pay for and people to pay in their church. If they lose a week off that does mean they didn’t get money for that week…
Now last I checked a church does have bills to pay, a mortgage, a staff, people to help, a college etc etc… don’ tthose need to get paid. Their church is big and I understand that you may think a church doesn’t need money… but hey I guess you don’t need a building… or the pastors of the church can tell their mortgage company… sorry didn’t get my paycheck this week… because no one wants to tithe…. because it’s wrong to tithe… last I checked if you read the bible the it talks about tithing… and no one is perfect… and I understand that… BUT… I can tell you from personal situations that there are good churches out there that do take care of there body. CBC does take car eof their body… are they perfect with how they spend there money…. no one is perfect… but you know they do try. I can tell you that lives are being changed… and God does work in that church… but you know i’m not to judge. I just want you to know… that churches do need money to pay bills, bless people, pay for lights, pay for water, pay for a mortgage…. but hey… whose to judge right…. Judge not yes ye be judged…..
FYI,
Here is the email that was sent out from City Harvest Church
Funny…they must not have any bills to pay…or maybe…just maybe they have enough faith in God to provide for their needs.
Shocking.
[Comment ID #36197 Will Be Quoted Here]
Alright, now…that’s just being a little childish. No need to pit one church’s email against another (what is this…”my church sends better emails than your church”
. You’re comparing a one sentence email against a 2 paragraph email. I didn’t see anything in that one about getting to listen to a message or helping the poor (i.e. blessing tree)…no reason to put down either one. CHC probably has no issue with CBC’s email, and CBC probably has no issue with CHCs.
Oh – and here is CBCs in case you missed it:
“Dear CBC,
In light of the present weather conditions, we will not be having services at any of our campuses on Satuday or Sunday. However we do have a special, pre-recorded Christmas service complete with worship, video announcements, offering, a special song, prayer, and preaching that is available at http://www.citybiblechurch.org. You can gather your family, friends, and neighbors into your living room and have church in the safety of your home.
Please remember your Blessing Tree gifts and the families whose Christmas is depending on them and contact your district pastor to make sure they can be delivered to the families. You can also give your tithes and offerings and Faith Harvest by going to http://www.citybiblechurch.org and click on the link on the left side of the screen that says “donations” and select “online giving,” or simply mail them in to the church office.
Have a wonderful Christmas season and stay safe. We are looking forward to being together for our next weekend services on December 28-29!
Pastor Frank”
I’m so glad they read this blog. They take Fred’s advice and look how much better it sounds. Putting their tithing request after talking about the good service they are doing with the Blessing Tree makes it all sound so much better. Good job CBC (church) for listening and well done CBC (blog) for putting it all together.