What’s Wrong With Church?
Posted on April 10th, 2009 by The Reformer into the Seasonal categoryI am currently involved in a Los Angeles church plant. We are having our second annual Easter celebration this weekend and I've found it quite easy to invite people to this event. People I would never expect are actually interested in going to a church gathering because of Easter. So this got me thinking:
- Why is it that people find it acceptable to go to church on Christmas and Easter, but not on a regular basis?
- Would more people be open to God if the stigmas associated with "church" and "Christians" did not exist? Where do all those stigmas come from anyway?
- I wonder what would happen if churches spent less time focusing on money, position, programs and numbers, and more time on reaching out to people, letting them be whoever they want to be?
- Have Christians been more of the problem rather then the solution?
- What are the top things that keep people away from church and ultimately God?
Hmmmm, any thoughts?
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April 10th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
All good questions.
I recently received a brochure from the City Church Chicago. I received it right before Easter, and it must have cost a fair amount of money to produce and distribute.
http://www.citychurchchicago.com/
It’s an exact rip-off of all the other City Churches.
(check out the section talking about the wife’s “model looks”. Really? That’s why I go to church, to gawk at the pastor’s wife? Sadly, no.)
I thought to myself, there is nothing “real” about this church. It’s just like every other charismatic church out there.
To get me back in church, I need to feel like I’m actually getting something from the service. And I’m actually contributing to the community.
I’m not going to church to hear “politics” or to “feel good about myself”. I’m over that. I want something where I feel like we as a church can make a difference.
Maybe I’m naive, and too optimistic. But that’s what I’m looking for.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
I found it especially hard to go to church when I became a mother of two small children and working full time career (not by choice). Until my first was 18 months, I was a stay home mom and very much looked forward Sunday church as a chance to be around other adults.
You sound sincere in your question, so here is an honest answer.
Once I started working, I felt like it was a luxury to be with my kids and cherished the time I could be with them. (including 4 am feedings). Listening to a sermon while my babies were in the nursery was the last thing I wanted to do on a precious day off.
Often I would help in the nursery so I could be with my kids, but it also took away from time with my own kids. I saw no point.
Now my baby is 21, I still have a career, and Sundays continue to be ever so precious personal time I rarely have for myself. I love my at home Sundays.
April 11th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Generally speaking church repeats the same mistakes throughout church history.
Ever noticed that the most outspoken atheists & many non-believers had some type of a Christian background? It is rare to find a person without any Christian background.
April 12th, 2009 at 12:41 am
hey, rp and justin, can you guys send me your emails? i know i can find you on fb, but i’d like to add you to my address book.
it seems right that you choose to let this particular blog die a natural death.
however, if you are so inclined to begin an entirely new blog on consumeristic Christianity, i think there are a few plots left around cyberspace for you to put your stake in.
and before i forget, here is POST of mine that I think you guys will appreciate.
all the best, see ya around the net, and Happy Easter. He is risen! In-effin-deed!
April 12th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
What’s wrong with “church” is the tendency of people to externalize it … church is either the building down the street, or the pastor and elders, or some unreal / idealistic notion … church needs to become what we are rather than where we go, etc.
As long as people do not take personal ownership and responsibility as the church, but rather disassociate from the true identity of the church, we’ll continue to see abuses in the name of the church for which no one takes responsibility …
I really long to see the time when the true prophetic voice rises up in the church - i.e., the “voice of truth” and calls people out on the shit they do to others in the “name of Jesus”, the true prophetic would call people out and hold people responsible … I don’t mean in a legalistic and controlling way, but when someone is operating with the loving heart of God, who understands that loving God means loving others, they will do the hard work of being a peace maker - speaking the hard truths - bringing people together by truth and NOT tolerating all the blood-letting that typically marks a church.
Healthy churches aren’t afraid of conflict - people with genuine love for one another, will endure the conflicts, work things out and grow even closer for it.
April 13th, 2009 at 6:32 am
Well….I just heard this one; At the Wednesday night service at RB, apparently AD (son of FD) got some stage time and told the group that, “the reason your friends are not getting saved is because you are not tithing.” I guess I haven’t been around there too much lately, but that hit me as totally absurd! I don’t need to say anything about nepotism either.
This is second hand info from a trusted source.
So we now have the senior pastor’s son telling us that the death of Christ is of secondary importance to tithing?!! What’s wrong with church indeed!
April 13th, 2009 at 8:15 am
HeSaidWhat!
Sorry, bad pun on your moniker combined with the subject of your post. I've been out of the loop for quite a while. I know many on this board would know who you are referring to with RB, AD and FD but I'm in the dark, other than surmising FD is Frank Damazio. I respect your qualifier on the source but would like to see if I can find a first hand source, perhaps the chuch's website has archived audio sermons. Would you be OK with sharing?
April 13th, 2009 at 8:35 am
After hearing someone in leadership lay a guilt trip like that on everyone, I wonder why people go back?
April 13th, 2009 at 11:26 am
RB=Rocky Butte campus. FD=Frank Damazio. AD=Andrew Damazio.
I don’t know if they tape the Wednesday night service. I have no doubt about what I posted.
April 13th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Hmmm. I wish I knew some skeptics that still went there, and could report. The problem with the faithful is that they might not even notice such an outrageous statement. Same goes for leaders — they might let that one pass by without correcting it.
(Or maybe they think it’s true??!!)
Hey the big yearly conference is coming up in May. I’m sure there will be plenty of similar statements made. These speakers make entire sermons out of their pre-offering pleas. At one conference I attended back in the day, Wendell went on for 45 minutes!
April 16th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Reformer asks
I think the mindset of alot the Christian culture today IS the problem and that includes making priorities of what you mention: money, position, programs and numbers etc. This includes, especially in Charismatic circles, a celebrity mentality and cult-like following of certain teachers in the body of Christ (that tend to attract conference queen types who travel far and wide to get the latest ‘word’) which seems to stem from a desire to have the ears tickled rather than be challenged to become more like the actual CHRIST that we say we follow.
If we are truly to become like Jesus, wouldn’t that entail being present in the city, or town, (community of any kind) and and being available on a relational level to people who don’t know Jesus, the one we know, yet? Jesus wasn’t relating to the tax collectors and prostitutes from behind a pulpit in a church meeting, that’s for sure.
How that relating and being available plays out will be different for each one of us as to who we relate to and what we do to become relate-able. One thing is certain, church meetings tend to tie up our time and energy and keep us from this very thing of being present where people who don’t know Christ hang out.
The conference queens and the pharisee types should just stay in their churches doing what they do. That way they will hopefully do less damage to the name of Christ than if they get out there blathering on about how God feels about homosexuality and such. But maybe those of us who do want to relate to the rest of the world, for the sake of the people we are relating to as well as for the sake of the gospel, will find ourselves more effective outside the four walls of the church. Then what is wrong with the church becomes less and less relevant to us and what we do for the Lord.
The church itself may never recognize what we do as worthy but the closer we get to God, the less that voice has sway. That’s when we discover that the opposite is true and He is actually quite pleased that we are becoming a hand extended even in such unconventional ways. As long as we listen to the still small voice and follow through with that inner nudging, we will find ourselves making a difference wherever and how ever, with whomever we are placed near.
April 17th, 2009 at 9:13 am
one thing i’ve noticed from attending churches and being a part of staff of a church is that people come to church to get fixed. they believe the staff of the church have some magical power through words in sermons to explain the problems in their lives and offer the quick fix in bullet point style. so, instead of the “church building” housing the community of God willing to serve and in need of “sound teaching” it finds itself filled with the next group of people looking to the quick fix….and willing to pay-tithe to get it. the church has become individuals seeking fulfillment instead of individuals finding a community to fulfill God’s purpose……. and the church staff enjoys the numbers of $$$$$ and people in attendance so they continue to sit by and rake in the dough. let’s just say I am no longer on staff.
April 19th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Is this just me or why is it that I feel VERY guilty for leaving the domes?
I know that I made the right decision when I left and seeking truth and God and didnt make a rash decision.
Yet, I always hear a nagging voice in the back of the mind that tells me that I’m a bad Christian, made a mistake and that i left because i had a problem. I wouldnt have to leave if I was doing things right etc…
I’m trying to ignore it but its so tough. I’m so far happy at my new church but have a tough time with trust.
April 19th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Hi Nina,
Guilt is no stranger to me and I battled it for a couple years after leaving my last church, with the same nagging voice and questions that is pestering you now.
For me, the guilt stemmed from my sense responsibility to bring Christ to people and that I had failed the church I left - I couldn’t make people see / know the Jesus I know - I could not get them to embrace the Holy Spirit and come off of their traditions - etc. Of course, it was a non-charismatic mainline church which by definition oppresses the Holy Spirit, whereas I’m spirit filled / baptized. Once people found out I speak in tongues, etc., there began a ground swell to drive my wife and I out of the church, because they don’t want that in their church and though we never did, they were afraid we would - so we were run out on a rail.
Of course, that made me heart sick, over my failure, but more importantly, grieving over people who want to keep the Lord as arms length. The thing that haunted me most, for years actually, were the “what ifs” … “what if I’d said this or done that …”
Along the way, to aid my understanding, the Lord gave me a dream or 3 which I pondered for years before I saw my part (true responsibility) in the situation. Of course, I have NO responsibility to ‘bring people to the Jesus I know’ - as it says, Jesus draws ALL men to himself - and He does the baptizing with the Holy Sprit and fire … so my sense of responsibility for the spiritual growth of people in that church was misplaced …
One of the things that was hard for me, as a relatively new ‘charismatic’ (I received the baptism just 10 years ago, when I was 43), is that my understanding of spiritual gifts was God gave them to me to wield on His behalf for the benefit of the church … but in time, I came to see the gifts were given to me to benefit my relationship with God, and in the assembly, those gifts are to be YIELDED to God, NOT WIELDED for God … so in attempting to WIELD the gifts, or to maneuver people into discussion about the gifts, witnessing about them when I wasn’t called upon to witness, I was effectively shoving stuff down their throats and thereby alienating them, from me and potentially from God …
There’s a passage in 1 Peter (?) to the effect of ‘be prepared to give the reason for the hope that is within you WHEN YOU ARE ASKED’ … I wasn’t waiting to be asked to share my testimony - to share my gifts - I was being a religious busy-body trying to push the church forward - in all honesty, that’s a form of manipulation …
Once the Lord had shown me that HE is the one responsible for salvation, HE is the one responsible to call men, HE is responsible to baptize men and that my sense of responsibility was misplaced, the guilt went away and I was able to forgive myself for failing to ‘usher in revival’ there …
Continuing to ponder these things has even gone on to show me that my sense of responsibility and my mucking around in the spiritual journey of others where I wasn’t invited, may have even impeded the Lord’s work. So it has made me more laid back about being a light in this world - I don’t need to announce that I have one or draw attention to the light in me - the Lord gives sight and people will see it as He pleasures …
And remember sis, THERE IS NOW NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS!
April 19th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Good thoughts, I can relate on many levels. I think as those who care about people tend to take it as our own burden. I want to see the church reach out more effectively, grow and influence the surrounding culture and when I see churches mired in their own myopic fake programs, it frustrates me.
I really feel that I also failed that church. Worse of all, when pastors manipulate then it doesnt help. One of them asked me why I’m leaving and wanted me to leave their church without any offenses. When I started honestly pouring my heart, this person started reacting emotionally, being manipulative and saying that I’m deceived. I realized there is no point reasoning with some people.
You raised up some really good points. The burden of condemnation is really heavy. I’m REALLY disillusioned with faith, church, God and other things. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get through this…
And yes forgiveness is a choice but it doesnt happen overnight. It isnt burying things under the carpet. I always get the self-righteous “get over it” kind of tone.
April 19th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Ah, Nina. Good question. I think I might understand a part of the answer. The PTB (Powers That Be) up on the hill have a very strong view that the church is God’s family, and that the leadership is God’s representative to that family.
The PTB regard their roles as “parents.” This can be seen in the way they make decisions as parents would — considering the “children” but not involving them in the process. It can be seen in the way they handle problems — discussing them behind closed doors as parents do when they argue — not upsetting the “children.”
The authority/submission roles are also treated as they are in a family. Take a look at the membership statements that are made when a person is inducted into the church. Look at the “responsibilities” of the PTB and the expected responsibilities of the new members — very family-like.
The PTB may argue that this is all very biblical. True, the Bible does use the family metaphor to help us understand our relationship with God and each other. But push that metaphor too far, and you end up substituting the PTB for the Father and the Holy Spirit. The PTB perpetuate this by the way they relate to the members. Look, remember and consider.
It was a Great Awakening moment in my own life when I realized that I could hear from the Holy Spirit myself — outside of the CBC filter. I know they encourage people to hear from God, but the caution is always there if you hear something “negative” about the church or the PTB, even if it’s a loving warning. If you have any prophetic tendencies, you learn very quickly to keep these things to yourself.
So I was actually breaking away from the mind-set before I left. This helped to keep me sane when I actually did leave.
This might sound a little silly, but I remembered the oaths I had given when I became a member, and I purposefully repented of them. That also brought a feeling of freedom.
Any PTB reading this might think, “Oh, she’s just rebellious. She’s a anarchist.” Quite the opposite. It was very difficult to come to the decision that I had to obey God rather than men. Especially when I had believed for decades that the men were speaking for God, and I was commited to obey them.
Very guilt-inducing were it not for the Holy Spirit’s assurance that I DID hear my Shepherd’s voice.
I hope this helps.
April 19th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Just read your last response, Nina. One more thing about forgiveness: I always explain to people that forgiveness means “dropping the charges” as in a court of law.
It does not mean that the offense did not occur. It does not mean that judgment is not due. It simply means that YOU are not the one bringing the charges.
It frees up God to deal with the situation in His own way at His own time. And it releases you and me to live our lives free from the situation.
I hope this helps, too.
April 19th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Clarification: Not that God needs to be “freed up.” What I meant was that we stop pestering Him for action (or being angry with Him for “doing nothing”) and trust Him to do what He thinks best. He will do that anyway (smile). It’s simply a change in the way we see things.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:08 am
As for church family, I often felt that during sermons I was spoken down to as though I’m a young junior high kid. I cant stand the sermons anymore. In my mind I’m screaming - not only is this wrong and false doctrine but I’m not a kid, talk to me like an educated adult. So why do they keep things behind closed doors. Eventually it becomes apparent. It shows a lack of integrity.
Majority of the people in the congregation are educated adults. With that in mind, it’s BS to tell me that I should be “warned” about going to a secular college. I’m glad I did so that I can better support myself and be a better witness of faith.
Anna, you make perfect sense.
I always hear the “Are you sure the Holy Spirit is speaking to you?” According to them the Holy Spirit only speaks to a few good pentecostal-charismatics.
But right on. It amazes me that the Holy Spirit does not want me to get tangled up with religion of man and was pulling me out. Even during my PBC years, I felt cautioned to not get caught up in building your faith on the sinking sand. It is about denying yourself and picking up the cross instead of building your own ministry or identity out of works and legalism.
It’s been hard during the first few months of leaving CBC because I wondered if I made the right decision. Also since I spent a lot of time in youth group, PBC and CBC activities out of naive young zeal, I didn’t have many friends outside of CBC. When I switched churches most of them including pastors overreacted and turned on me. I have only one or two acquaintances that I still keep in touch. The rest automatically rejected me because of my switch. I’ve been gossiped about. I stopped seeing them because of drama.
It was lonely at first but eventually I’m getting to know others and really understanding what it means to be in a true community & family of God.
April 20th, 2009 at 7:17 am
There is a faulty premise that drives the institutional church and has a negative effect on the congregation - that being the congregation “grows together” as the result of the pastor’s sermons and ancillary sunday school teachings …
How can 1 man, hock up a 20-40 minute sermon, to feed and grow 2000+ individuals in attendance on any given Sunday? More specifically, the notion of 1 man leading 2000+ people to the kingdom paints an absurd picture … imagine all those people, joined arm in arm, walking in lockstep to the kingdom … they can only move as fast as the slowest person, and where every church has people who are there for appearance sake only, or hindered from moving forward by a committment to sin/flesh, the congregation really can’t move forward at all. So spiritual growth / forward progress to the kingdom, is really an individual thing …
After all, scripture says the PATH TO DESTRUCTION IS WIDE (as in the path taken by the multitudes, who by definition travel in herd and need a wide path) whereas the path to LIFE IS NARROW (as in a solitary path, traveled alone by individuals who have been cut from the herd, by the Great Shepherd) …
Enoch, Abraham, David, John the Baptist, Paul - all were called out from among the multitudes of men and walked alone - likewise, the prophets - one of whom though he lived among his people, counted just one friend (IIRC - Jeremiah has the 1 friend, Baruch) … and in my experience, progress toward the kingdom / God bears this out - the closer you draw to God - the more you hear and respond to His call to come be with Him - the more solitary your spiritual life becomes - the more the religious machinations of men sound like a “clanging gong”, etc.
For my ownself, it became apparent as I cussed God for being alone - for not having fellowship - for being regarded a leper by religious men - that the problem lay with my need for the approval of men - the affirmation of men … while on the one hand I hated the death-stench of the IC, I still got off on tweaking people with the revelations I had, still craved the occasional ego-stoking comments I got once in awhile through a new song or an article I wrote for the church newsletter … when the Lord cut me from the herd, it cut off all those means of the “approval of men” I craved back then, and so for a time, I starved for attention / validation and all that crap. In other words, my selfish nature took a huge hit in being cut from the herd - the Lord was effectively crucifying my selfish nature and it hurt …
The thing about the NARROW PATH that sticks out in my mind now, is that it is NARROW - typically just wide enough for a single person to walk its length - it affords very few wide spots or rest stops where you might meet up with another sojourner and break bread. Soon the path beckons us onward, where we are once again, alone. If I describe my vista, to the person ahead of me on the path, I am describing yesterday’s news to them - and to the person behind me, I am a raving loon because they haven’t seen it yet … so, I guess we are to be content for the Lord’s company, and thankful for that occasional meadow where we can meet up with a brother and sister to break bread until the time the Lord calls us to get started on the path again … as for the WIDE PATH, there’s nothing to be seen - dust kicked up in my face, the odors of fellow travelers who have no clue where they’re going because they can’t see the leader … human lemmings …
In hind sight, traveling the solitary (narrow) path is kinda reminiscent of Lot being called out of Sodom … there’s pain in looking back - in living in the past … or the NT version - once you set your hand to the plow, don’t look back - if you look back, you’ll only plow a crooked row or maybe run into a rock that’ll throw you to the ground …
There was for me, a real element of “God did this to me” and I was resentful toward Him for a long time … then came the day when the Lord suggested to me, that I needed to “wash HIS feet” - which at the time, seemed absurd to me since the Lord is without sin - but the reality is, I had ’slimed’ the Lord with false accusation - specifically, I attributed to Him evil motives about what He had done to me, and I needed to forgive and cleanse Him of what I’d wrongly accused Him of … so in a beautiful spiritual experience (a vision), I bathed His feet with my tears and was set free of resentment for being “called out” and set on this solitary path … it really was HIS BEST for me, intending only that I’d be set free to live a peaceful life, with HIM.
I seldom recommend books to people, Nina, but there is one that really spoke to my Spirit when I came out of the institutional church, about the solitary path and experiencing desert things … it’s an e-book, that is reproduced in its entirety at Escape from Christendom.
April 20th, 2009 at 7:46 am
I’ve talked further with the family member who heard the tithing comment from AD. It seems he also mentioned talking with FD about it, and, of course, they were in agreement that not tithing was keeping people’s friends from getting saved!
My response to such nonsense; Matthew 15:14, “Let them alone; they are blind leaders of the blind.” Such is the freedom in the words of Christ!
I finally decided to attend another fellowship this Sunday, after months of staying home. I went to The Well church to see what it was like. I enjoyed the service, and taking communion. Next week Eric Knox will be speaking, and I’m actually looking forward to it.
Nina, I think you made a good call in leaving. Churchianity is not Christianity, and there are better things to do than wait for the next real estate deal that the ‘leadership’ cooks up.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:18 am
“You have not been paying your tithes” (Elder T speaking here by phone)
What do you mean by that I asked?
“The recordes show that you have not been paying and you cannot be a laypastor if you have not paid your tithes.”
I am paying them I responded,
“how”
I pay my tithes with cash in the offering basket I responded,
Elder T is now backing off some and I could tell he was somewhat embarrassed by the exchange we just had.
” You should use the tithing envelope so “you” can keep track
and write it off your taxes he said”
Who’s keeping track here I asked?
I’ll continue to pay the way I always have if that is not good enough you can take my laypastor hat away.
End of conversation.
……………………………………………………………………….
I just returned from a ministry trip to another country and had to return earlier than anticipated due to business.
I walked into Elder 6’s office some years back he wanted to pick my brains about my recent ministry trip to another country.
To make a long story short he started asking leading questions,
about my marriage.
(NO I am not making this stuff up)
“DID YOU have problems with your marriage while you there he asked.” No, I said, but there are pressures you have to deal with I stated, there is spiritual warfare to be dealt with no doubt.
Elder 6 looked long at me, then abruptly slammed his hand down on his desk and with a condescending voice
“DID YOU have problems with WOMEN while there!”
I was shocked to say the least, caught without words to defend myself? I said no.
Elder 6 sits back in his chair and gave me a look that said
“I know your lying”
I politely left his office to carry those words as a burden for many years.
I felt like a piece of trash after he was done with me.
Folks, my wife is the only women I have ever “known”.
Who do you talk to? We all know CBC Elders are never wrong
and they will gang up on you. I kept it to myself.
FAST FORWARD 15 YEARS
I have a meeting with Elder 6 as he wants to interview me for a
position in his district.
I’ve put his past behavior behind me. ( I know, I know)
We have a polite conversation and then he brings up my overseas ministry trip from over a decade earlier, he abruptly and repeatedly
ask
“Why DID YOU LEAVE!
Why DID YOU LEAVE!
Why DID YOU LEAVE!”
I was blown away by this, it catches you by surprise, again.
It was just time to go home, I stated.
I had forgotten why I had even left early.
This Weirdo is still on staff.
I could go on with the crap I’ve had to put up with there.
I still have to forgive when it comes to mind.
I left a year ago and found a fellowship where the ground is level.
Offenses will come.
I can’t believe I’m in the position of writing this, I feel like an outcast. I could only handle so much from that leadership and finally left.
I at one time thought that place was the greatest thing next to heaven. They could do no wrong they were IT!
I served them with everything I had.
……………………………………………………………………
So, what’s wrong with the Church?
Nothing!
Because Christ still rules over HIS people and his sheep know his voice.
I have chosen to run with God no matter what.
Thanks for letting me vent and forgive the grammer.
I’ve not to much time..
April 20th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Joe, good job… good for you! What a story. Please do not allow yourself to feel like an outcast. You escaped!! If the wardens are unhappy, well too bad for them.
It is very sad for those of us who remember what it used to be. But that place is gone. Rejoice that the Shepherd has chivvied you along into a better place.
grace
April 21st, 2009 at 6:01 am
Thanks Anna,
I have appreciated your writing here. I read it saying yeah
they understand.
That place we knew is gone and it’s to bad. There are still some wonerful people there but it’s become institutionalized and
that’s the norm through history with denominations and it
is a denomination, now.
Once you become institutionalized is beomes all about self-preservation.
CBC leadership can be quick to judge you based upon presumption and suspicion and then hammer and crush you.
It’s this way because they have no relationship with you,
they don’t really know you.
They will tell you that they do but that’s just not a reality.
They don’t have the time, they are like busy little ants running about doing the paper work of the Lord.
The only time they have is for their own little circle of elders.
They are managers with the title of elder. Not all, but a lot.
Jesus said to make disciples.
Had I not my up bringing of knowing what a real pastor is I
would still be there, but I remembered.
Just to leave this post on a good note,
My wife and I are absolutley giddy about where we go to Church now!
It’s free and I’m free!
April 21st, 2009 at 4:57 pm
For those interested in preachers and teachers who focus on how church should really be done…the Gospel Coalition 2009 Conference is going on with speakers like Keller, Piper, and Driscoll. Runs from April 21-23. Live feed at http://www.christianity.com/gospelcoalition/
If anything else it will help you pass the time at work.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:57 am
Gentlemen,
I am reqesting that you remove my last two post.
I don’t need to air my old laundry out publicly. It’s past, it’s gone,
It’s time to let it go.
Thank you for your help.
April 24th, 2009 at 5:17 am
Joe, I’m not one who can remove your messages, but I would like you to know that I appreciated your remarks. If nobody speaks up about such abusive behavior, it will just continue. At least if someone reads what you posted they have a fair warning.
April 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Joe, I don’t have any ability to remove posts either. But I would ask that you consider leaving yours up.
First, it validates other people’s experiences. When a person goes through something like this, he is likely to think he is crazy or deceived or has a bad attitude or is under “spiritual warfare.”
The code of silence makes sure he never hears about what others have gone through, and he himself never speaks up. So when these things happen to people, they think that their own crazy experiences are isolated incidents — when in fact, they are common and rampant.
Second, your words are a testimony to victory — that something crummy can happen to you, but you still have a healthy relationship with the Lord. So many people end up walking away from Jesus when they walk away from a church, but that need not be!!
Thanks for your voice.
April 24th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Joe,
I totally understand that sense of “I can’t believe this is really happening…” .
On my wedding day, someone very highly respected in the BT/CBC ranks, after decorating the church, said to me “there’s a bad spirit about this wedding”.
24 years later, the “bad spirited marriage” is still together. It seems so strange that anyone could pronounce such a harsh judgment over another person’s marriage… a day that is definining the rest of their life!
I take the words of Anna into my own experience. “something crummy can happen to you, but you still have a healthy relationship with the Lord.”
April 25th, 2009 at 10:08 am
checking in, WTF? I can’t believe that someone would say that to someone on a wedding day. They are not being led by the Holy Spirit but rather the spirit of their own prejudices. I’m sorry that happened to you.
I had a similar experience. An influential church lady started asking me about a friend because she sensed demonic things etc.. Not every girl is going to be the perky, cute, naive, sweet well dressed stepford wife image of CBC women. That doesnt make her any less of a Christian. I politely asked her if she ever took the time to talk to or get to know my friend? It was a no. I told her that it is wrong to say things like this or make harsh judgments about people who does not know. It can be very hurtful to people. This church lady’s cute, sweet tone right away turned into a very bitchy, rude tone. She started saying how she’d be praying for us. Her arrogance was shocking. And I don’t take bitchiness from anyone. I smiled, nodded and decided to get away from this idiot. Some people are beyond reason.
Joe — I too agree that there’s no need to remove the posts, it validates and shows your experience through this. This real and I believe Christians need to be more real, open and address things.
Many people leave God and the church after going through similar experiences like yours. This might encourage someone to not give up.