Last Days Fever
Posted on October 21st, 2009 by The Reformer into the Uncategorized categoryOn the cover of this month’s Charisma Magazine is the question "What can we know for sure about the end times?" The article inside proceeds to point out that a number of prominent charismatic leaders believe we are living in the last days and that its fever is spreading virally around the planet as a confluence of world events is igniting widespread debate about the second coming.
"[Tim] LaHaye, John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, David Hocking, Paul McGuire and other prophecy teachers say the formation of Israel as a nation in 1948, the ingathering of Jews to Jesus, the rise of global anti-Christ political structures, the military alliance between Russia and Iran, and Iran’s threats to annihilate Israel are prophecy fulfillments or conditions that could allow for the fulfillment of prophecies regarding the rapture, Great Tribulation and Second Coming.
They contend that geopolitical events—the possibility of war between Iran and Israel; calls for a global government, economic system and currency; increasing immorality and lawlessness; devastating natural disasters; global warming; the pending biometric national identification system; the rebuilding of Babylon and the drying up of the Euphrates River—foreshadow events prophesied in the Bible.
A key unfulfilled sign involves a Matthew 24 prophecy that the gospel would be preached to the whole world and then the end will come. The top mission agencies are [now] predicting that within 10 years all of the earth’s 6,000 people groups will have the gospel preached to them.
[And most Christians agree.] A recent poll by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life found 79 percent of American Christians believe in the Second Coming. But on the timing and circumstances of Christ’s return, Christians are divided. About a third—34 percent—say it will occur after the world situation reaches a low point, 37 percent say it’s impossible to know the circumstances preceding Christ’s return, and 4 percent say Christ will return when the world situation improves."
Now I've never been a big "end times" person, but this debate is interesting to follow. Although I think most of these guys just like to blow smoke in order to sell books, get TV ratings and demand higher paychecks from speaking engagements, I am curious as to whether my generation or my kid’s generation will see the return of Christ? But as Jesus said in Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour…" Guess we'll keep talking about it until it happens.
(For the full article CLICK HERE)
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October 26th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Reformer, I printed out the article to read later so will get back with you. In perusing the article, I notice that C. Peter Wagner, founder of the NAR, is staying true to his Domionist escatology that the rapture is merely part of our escapist mentality. He’d rather stay around to inherit lots of money from others that work hard for it and elitely reign in this life in prosperity. Where will that money come from I wonder? Especially with the current economic crisis going on.
Btw, I wonder if any of the prophets from the NAR will predict the rapture?? HA! The certainly didn’t predict the economic crisis!
October 26th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I can’t even relate to evangelical end-times theology any more … perhaps it’s because I first read about it in Lindsey’s “Late Great Planet Earth” original edition back in the mid-70’s … so I “watched the clouds” for some 30 years - effectively a generation - reluctant even to subscribe to a magazine for longer than a year lest Jesus come and some pagan get my remaining issues of TV Guide …
But coming out, the Spirit has done such a work on me, best summarized by a few questions:
When Jesus gave us a key to understand Him in John 6:63 saying “MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT”, why then do we rush to literal interpretations?
When Jesus said “The kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU” (Luke 17:20), why do we look for it to come in and to this fallen world and seemingly NEVER look to the kingdom and glory of God unfolding within us?
Why do Christians make spiritual warfare to “possess the land” and occupy it for Jesus Christ, when we can’t even possess the 2-3 pounds of flesh between our ears, nor keep our own members from sin of the flesh?
Why do Christians treat the book of Revelation as if it were “The Revelation of Satan” when in fact, it is the “Revelation of Jesus Christ”?
I have come to the belief that Revelation speaks to the NEW and 3rd TEMPLE which is IN US. Ref: 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 6:19, etc. It does NOT speak to a new stone temple (Matthew 23:38, Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24). We are the temple, it is within our flesh that the spirit of anti-christ tries to rise up and demand our worship and from which we must flee to the hills (Psalm 121:1) where the Lord resides (metaphorically).
The enemy is overcome in our flesh, the kingdom unfolds in us, death and hell are conquered in us by the power of Christ.
The world will go on as it always has … and the kingdom is always unfolding, the 2nd coming of Christ, IN US …
The likes of Lindsey, Van Impe, La Haye, need to soak their collective heads …
October 27th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
DCG, the NARs are begging for money just like everyone else. I don’t know why they just don’t prophesy it in and “possess the gates” like their conferences say. LOL
‘Scrupe, agree with a lot. But I don’t think we have to look at it in an either/or way. Like many things, fulfillment happens in multiple ways.
Yes, we do seem to forget that it is God’s purpose that the Lord be revealed in us. But then I don’t see any way around the Scriptures which are point blank about the physical return of the Lord Jesus (or the physical coming of a Messiah from the OT POV). To me, it’s a both/and … and we better not ignore one for the other.
October 27th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Interesting theory Scrupe. So you don’t think there will ever be a second coming of Christ on this earth?
October 27th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Reformer, check out J. Preston Eby … he has an interesting take on the “2nd coming” … there are a considerable number of passages in the NT that speak to the Lord coming, not just some distant ‘2nd coming’, but again and again and again … HE:
Comes like a thief in the night
Comes like the lightning that flashes east to west
Comes on the clouds
If he comes like lightning (highly visible and very very loud / startling) he won’t be very effective in being ’stealthy’ like a thief, and vice versa - so those would seem to talk about different returns … I’ve experienced the ‘lightning’ type returns - can’t say I know whether or not He’s visited me like a thief in the night … I’ve seen Him on the clouds in glory when singing a spiritual song of praise/prophesy … so I’ve experienced the ‘2nd coming’ in my being born again and being baptised in the spirit, I’ve experienced countless ‘comings’ through out my life as HE’S touched me, healed me, inspired me, taught me, etc.
The proof text is a passage in/around John 14 (?) wherein HE says (to the effect) “I will not leave you alone, I will come to you…”
The point is, which of these are the 2nd coming? In the days between the resurrection and the ascension he appeared numerous times - why aren’t any of those enumerated ? Should I or any other believer who has experienced Christ in their walk of faith, look for one grand 2nd coming somewhere off in the future, or, should we expect Christ to show up in our lives as he promised, at any time and in any way of his choosing?
I imagine Reformer, that what the vast majority of Christians refer to as the “2nd coming” is in fact, the LAST coming or maybe the FINAL return of Christ?
There will of course be a culmination of all things one day, wherein Christ will be revealed as the Lord of all.
As for my view on the so-called ‘rapture of the saints’ scripture, I do have a different view of it … I believe the “clouds” that he comes with are in fact, clouds of witnesses - that is, those who are with and in Christ who have gone on before … they are with him completely, with no body to bind them to this world … but the born again, are in a kind of limbo - as the scriptures say, they are not of this world, are seated with Christ in heavenly places, are a new creation, are kings and priests, temples of the living God, nevertheless, they are here because of their physical bodies … they are in effect, caught between 2 worlds - there is a very real sense that my spirit, having been renewed and a new creation, is in fact already caught up in the cloud of witnesses with Christ, wherein I am a visible testimony of the power and glory of Christ in this life - I am, as you are, in a sense “lifted up” with Christ or ‘caught up’ with Christ for all the world to see …
The other thing that bugs me about the whole rapture theology is, that it ignores some very important scriptures … it is said two walking up a hill, one taken, one left … two asleep in bed, one taken, one left … and that it will be like the days of Sodom and Gomorrah … well, if it is like Sodom, we need to ask “just who was taken, and who was left” … it was the WICKED who were taken, the righteous were left to continue making children for God … likewise Noah - it was the WICKED who were taken and the righteous who were left, once again, to continue making children for God … there’s the parable of the wheat and tares … the TARES (symbolic of the wicked) are removed first, before the wheat is harvested ….
SO with so many examples of the WICKED being (in effect) raptured, why is it we assume it’s the saints who will be raptured and the earth left to the wicked? What’s to stop Satan from just slaughtering all who remain?
The rapture theology is fairly new anyway - spawned in the mid 1800’s and tied to dispensational theology …
October 29th, 2009 at 6:57 am
‘Scrupe: Good thoughts, even if I can’t quite swallow all your spiritual interp.
Precisely, anna.
While mentioning Bickle, Hagee, Wagner, it’s interesting to me that a “charismatic” magazine would have an article mainly focusing on, referencing and quoting from so many authors who are unabashed anti-charismatics, such as Lindsey, LaHaye, Hocking, Jenkins, Criswell, etc. (that they’re also poster-boys for the promotion of the Dispensationalist notion doesn’t surprise me). In fact, many of these are the same guys who view modern-day charismatics as being “of the devil.”
But I guess they felt it was OK — if they were actually contacted by Charisma for this article, which I assume they were — to not only share the venue with demon-possessed Christians, but also to allow a mag promoting it to feature them…..just so long as it furthered their personal agendas.
-joe
October 29th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Hi Joe, missed seeing you around, bro.
One of the things that stirs my imagination Joe, is the Bible record of how the scholars had the coming of God’s Messiah all figured out, yet when HE stood before them, to be examined by the temple leaders in the dead of night, they did not recognize HIM. And following HIS resurrection, the men on the road to Emmaus, didn’t recognize HIM even as HE testified the real meaning of the sriptures and how apparently their expectations of the Messiah were not God’s intention.
So, with that as our ’stellar’ history for understanding Bible prophecy, when it came to seeing the FIRST coming of the Messiah, how is it that men think they have the scriptures figured out for the (so-called) 2nd Coming?
Imagine if it happened tonight. Wouldn’t there be many believers asking “where was the anti-christ incarnate? - where was the 666? where was the 2nd temple? where was the trib, armageddon, the 10 nation confederacy?” Could it be that men who are so jaded as to reject the present truth of the Holy Spirit in the world and residing in believers with gifts of the Spirit, aren’t enlightened to interpret the scriptures that speak to the Lord’s return and judgment?
Something tells me we will be surprised and amazed at how it unfolds, and that it will not be like it has come to be anticipated these last 150 years.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
You know, it might be useful to ask WHY the ancients missed the coming of Christ, when they were knowledgeable of all the prophecies that pointed toward HIS coming. And I think the answer is somewhat obvious: Israel was looking for a POLITICAL savior to deliver them from Roman oppression and not a SPIRITUAL savior to deliver them from the bondage of sin.
So, is current ‘end-times’ theology repeating the same error the ancients made by interpreting prophecy through carnal / political ambition?
The ONLY way we have a chance of understanding Biblical prophecy before it comes to pass, is to get right with the will and understanding of the Father. Interpretations of the flesh have no chance of coming to pass.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:26 am
'Scrupe, your comment about "controlling the 2-3 lbs of flesh between our ears" is right on. Jesus gave a teaching about the "keys to the kingdom" in Matt. 16:19. What are those keys? Luke 11:52 identifies one of them, which also appears in 2 Peter 1:1-11, along with the rest that Peter lists. The point is we are supposed to be taking on Christ's personality traits, knowledge, brotherly kindness, self control, godliness, etc…these will lead to an abundant entrance into the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Christianity isn't about how much money you give or get, or how many buildings get erected, it is about reflecting Christ to this evil dying world.