I was recently introduced to the Judah Smith fan page on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/judahsmith). All I have to say is WOW, A-M-A-Z-I-N-G! Check out these recent posts (note that I did not change anything, so the spelling and gramical errors are their mistakes):
Kevin Salinas: "I listen to your sermon from G.U. 2010 at least twice a day. you are awesome."
Lynn Marie Kraus: "Pastor Judah, what an amazing message you gave yesterday…Your are really an inspiration to all the members, old and new. I love you."
Diana Forte Kenton: "Judah you are sooo annoited by God. in about from about 1999 to 2005 I was in a bad place, God used you to bring me back to Him And with your new messages i am inspired daily…I should be dead but JESUS has saved me, you have been a HUGE part of this!"
Nate Riley: “You are my hero…”
Brooke Papier: “The way God speaks through you Judah never ceases to amaze me…. Thank you for being a wonderful example of an obedient disciple!”
Laura Sinclair: “Thank you for laying your hand on me after the Encounter Retreat tonight. =) I felt the Holy Spirit through you.”
Ron Debbie Stoner: “GREATEST PASTOR IN THE WORLD.”
Nikolay Bertash: “I love you Judah Smith.”
Tony Solis: “pastor judah is one of those guys that you can't help liking. the good-natured messing around with his wife before he actually gets to preaching makes me laugh quite a bit…the fire this man has for God is second to none, and that's a real inspiration to me.”
And they go on and on like this. In fact he has over 16,000 fans, all spouting the same kind of praise and worship. I have to admit, if it were me all these crazies were claiming adoration for, it would be hard not to think I was God's next chosen son. So it really does make me wonder…is Judah Smith the new Messiah??
The kids definitely got a cult following.
I think it will be interesting to watch his transition from Youth Pastor to Head Pastor of City Church. He is a very entertaining speaker, but he lacks substance. He never really says anything. I suspect an older audience will want a little more from his sermons, and won’t be wowed by his hair and jewelry. But who knows.
Wrong on both counts. Most church attenders are sheep that just want to follow someone with passion. They don’t care what he has to say…if it makes them feel good, they will buy it.
Thought experiment:
Imagine you are a 40-something year old man who has been going to church for a while. You have a demanding career as some kind of professional, and your wife works very full workweeks as well. You come home from working late days, and your wife is as stressed out as you. On top of that, you have a 17 year old son, 15 year old daughter, and a 12 year old daughter.
Now, you not only have to handle all the craziness and stress that comes with that, you also have cart the two younger ones around to school events, practices, friend’s houses, etc. Is that all you have to do? Of course not. You also have to: deal with teenage problems, monitor your kids progress in school, worry about paying for their college, worry about what they are doing with their friends, worry about who is contacting your daughter on Facebook, hear about your middle daughter’s boyfriend who you can’t stand (especially since she isn’t even supposed to have one, so she calls him a “friend”), etc. You have a variable rate mortgage that is about to skyrocket, so you are worried about your house payments now, as well as your car needing a new transmission.
You spend the whole week worrying about real life stuff that stresses you and your wife out so much that sometimes the only person that talks less to you than your kids, is your wife. However, in the midst of all this insanity, you find solace and comfort in being able to go to church on Sunday. In a way, it recharges you, reorients your perspective, and allows you to start anew for the week ahead. You look forward to hearing some wisdom from your pastor– someone who can identify with you and your needs. They can speak from the Word of God in a way that gives you all you need and more, making everything okay. You’ve been waiting all week for this, and it will be worth it…
Then Judah Smith walks up to the pulpit.
There he is: A kid barely older than your own kids. He even seems trendier than they are–he’s wearing the man-version of the jeans that your daughter begged you for, but you wouldn’t buy for her because no one in their right mind would pay $350 for a pair of jeans.
But you catch yourself. This is church, after all. You realize that it might be best to leave that kind of thinking at the door. This is church, and no one here at The City Church is supposed to judge, after all. You decide to give him a chance. Time slows to a trickle. Halfway through the sermon you come to realize the density of his message, with respect to the real world, is like watching a Saltine cracker floating down a raging river. So much for chances.
You showed up to be spiritually filled by someone who can touch your spirit in ways that are unique because they have a way of identifying with you, and others like you, thus speaking to your needs. Instead you get a spoiled pastor’s son who didn’t have to work to become a youth pastor, let alone a head pastor. It shows.
Oh, well… I guess you will have to take your real world problems to a church whose pastor lives in the real world, and can identify with you in some tangible way. Guess you will have to add finding a new church to the long list of things you already had to do this week.
Matircks–we couldn’t have said it better! I especially love the $350.00 jean comment. Interesting how we could identify with the spoiled pastor’s kids because the identical cousins live here at Capitial Business Church in Idaho.
They have the same amazing lifestyle –I wonder how that happened? $400,000. new houses, great cars, tons of vacations. We don’t know how they do it. The numbers keep going down, long term people are constantly leaving but hey their lifestyle somehow miraculously stays the same. They twitter on shopping at a boutique downtown —home of the $650.00 jackets and $150.00 tshirts! Thank goodness the spring fashions have finally arrived!
We had someone ask us who worked at a trendy store–how are those girls able to afford this clothing? I work here and I can’t? Well thats the problem– you work for a living. If only you could ask for offerings all your troubles would be over.
How nice to have it handed to you on a silver platter all made possible by our tithes, love offerings and never ever forget Capital Vision 2000! Ah yes the seedy, underside of religion where they hired an expensive consultant to blow through town in his Mercedes and try to shake us down for more money. Of course pledges would do fine because than they could send statements and a guilty plea till they were paid in full. The tent meetings the “consultant” held could put an Amway Convention to shame in manipulation techniques.
Our favorite memory is when the Pastors Princess waved her check around at the church office saying she couldn’t believe she got paid so much because she hadn’t even been to work. That went over really great with the drones working on staff let me tell you!
The point is they have absolutely no idea what the real world is like. They don’t work real jobs and if they get in trouble the church financial office was demanded to hand them checks – no questions asked. There is no guilt in their lifestyle because they feel they deserve it and more. They were brought up on it.
Our problem was we didn’t realize it was a family run business. These kids now into their 30′s are beyond clueless why people get upset at their over the top lifestyle paid for by hard working families who could use the money themselves just to pay bills. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what we could share, but it is the same scenario. Just wanted to tell you we relate. And believe me they think nothing of it –as one daughter told me after a day at the spa before they went on vacation paid for by our church –we soooo need a vacation! Right! So do I -thats why I left there for good!
Cat it seems to me like a lot of the older people love him (based on what I have read on Twitter and Facebook). I think they like the thought of being hip, trendy and cool. It’s sad, cause I’m the same age as Mr. Smith and I feel like he could never speak into my life. I couldn’t imagine being 45-50 years old and having to depend on him to share God’s truths for my life!
Awesome! Thank you for sharing, you nailed it. This is why this blog cannot stop, there are so many people affected by greedy, money grubbing pastors, we have to bring attention to it. I am still blown away that anyone would freely write a check to these churches, knowing that their money is going more towards helping the pastors and their families live lavish lives over the poor and needy who just want to pay their rent and put food on the table.
As I’ve always said, I have absolutely no problem with money or being rich. My problem is with pastors/leaders that are rich off the donations of others. If they want to be rich they should chose a profession that will make them such. Go into business, law, medicine, etc. Don’t become a pastor, or if you do, figure out a way to make money on the side, such as writing books. I believe any pastor with a church salary over something like $50,000 or so (depending on where they live) is more about serving themselves, then serving others.
I’m the same age as Mr. Smith and I feel like he could never speak into my life.
Same here. But a lot of that for me is that Mr. Smith hasn’t had any significant life experience. Really, what has he done, other than follow in his father’s footsteps? He has no college education. No significant missions trips. (unlike say, Mormons, who are required to spend two years in the field) He’s never left his daddy’s side. He’s just an entertaining speaker, or at least entertaining for a pastor. (which, let’s be honest, isn’t saying much.)
That is quite true. I don’t think that Judah could cut it at a high school pep rally, if you ask me. It is just the context of church that allows him to survive as a speaker. He has made a living by being more boisterous than people expect the average pastor to be. That is it. Oh, and he tells kids that he is having more fun than they are because he is having sex with his wife (let’s not forget that). Therefore, I guess we are supposed to consider him edgy?
While others have had to walk down the long, rough, and winding road of life, Judah flew down it on a Slip n’ Slide®. I cannot imagine a high school kid, let alone an adult, having any real problems that Judah could identify with.
Guys like Judah can only regurgitate wisdom that they have heard from others, they can’t offer any actual knowledge from first hand experience. It is not that I am telling Judah that it is bad that he has lead a ‘pure’ life, it is just that he has lead a sheltered life. He hasn’t seen anything, never even been around real problems.
I started attending The City Church when it was just getting started, back at Kelsey Creek. I remember when he had his father pull him out of Bellevue Christian and put him at Issaquah High School, so that he could witness to his classmates. Judah wore that like a badge of honor–I can’t tell you how many times he brought that up. Perhaps he thought that it could buy him some street cred, that he switched to a public school so he could hold Bible study at lunch. The fact that he still brings that up (apparently brings it up a lot, since it found its way onto his Wikipedia page) makes me wonder why his resume is so short that “lunchtime Bible study” is still frequently mentioned by a 30 year old pastor (now head pastor) at a major church.
He has made a living by being more boisterous than people expect the average pastor to be. That is it.
matricks, you’re nailing it. If you ever want to blog on this site, just let me know.
Perhaps he thought that it could buy him some street cred, that he switched to a public school so he could hold Bible study at lunch.
Well, it does buy him street cred with other homeschooled/Christian School kids. The problem is that’s a relatively small number. And if you want to branch out and influence people outside your circle, then you’re going to have to come up with more than, “I went to a rich, predominantly white public school in a suburb of Seattle”.
Oh, and he tells kids that he is having more fun than they are because he is having sex with his wife
This is actually true. I know I had more fun when I was making out with his wife in high-school.
(I’ve been holding onto that joke for a couple years now, but since no one reads this blog anymore…)
You’re kidding right? He still talks about that stuff? I remember once when we were 20-21 and had dinner @ his house (our wives were childhood friends) and he was talking about that to me, a guy who spent half my life in public school including a very secular college, and started 3 separate bible studies along the way. I guess it goes to show that when the focus is on self rather then Jesus, people will always exploit the work they do for Him more then the work He already did for us.
That is what we all signed up for when we went to church – it’s supposed to be a reprieve from what happens the rest of the week. Instead, it ends up being more of the same – and you find out that it operates in the way of the world as much as the world does. The same rules apply and it doesn’t resemble the biblical definition of assembling together one bit. So when the Bible says to not be conformed to this world, I guess what it’s speaking of, in addition to what weve always thought was ‘this world’ – it’s now meaning “THIS” world. who wouldve thought it?
Case in point. well said NonCeleb!Who would’ve thought there is a seedy underside to the pastors to whom we msiguidedly pledged allegience?
Well said Detox! What’s amazingly apparent in the age of Celebrity Pastors we are living in –at least in the post Charismatic age is there is no respite from the spotlight shining on the “special people.” MFI has an especially bad case of it.
Somewhere along the line they transferred being a Servant Leader over to being served. That is them and their family. We noticed how different it is outside of their bubble. Imagine going to a real church where they don’t take up a big offering for the Pastor on their birthdays, anniversaries and countless vacations. We don’t even hear when his birthday is. Its a whole new world.
Now before you pastor worshippers come out of the woodwork, yes we know what it says to honor your leaders but this gift giving -worship fest – has gotten so out of control its unbelieveable! Only when you step away from this world and go to a place where its normal do you realize you were put into a situation where your pastor has become the idol in your life. Its going on all over America as you check the blogasphere.
We live in a celebrity culture where being ordinary isn’t an option. Could this be what the Bible meant when it warned us in the last days we’d become lovers of men. The facebooks, twitters and web pages certainly contribute to it and if you don’t believe that go back to Judah’s facebook page and tell me who is being lifted up there –him or the Lord?
You as a Pastor –leader are the one who creates an atmosphere of worship of the leader or of the Lord Jesus Christ. Which one will it be?
What can I say, I’m flattered! If I think of anything good, I will let you know!
You’re killing me! Man, I almost lost it reading that! That might be enough to get Mr. Smith on here to post something!
And for those who are new to church (i.e. the teenagers who come to GC), they start off with a skewed view of focusing on character over content. Ask any random person heading to GC why they are going there, and I guarantee the name of a pastor will be at the top of the list, then perhaps followed by God or Jesus. These kids believe they are “going to church”, where in actuality, they are simply feeding Judah’s cult of personality.
It seems very disingenuous for churches to allow this to occur unchecked… well, unless that is what your goal is in the first place.
[Comment ID #37302 Will Be Quoted Here]
“You are nailing it” NonCeleb – you can guest on my blog anytime. In fact, I hope you start one of your own! The more blogs asking questions and sharing detailed stories, the better.
What a way to rally a reformation – people exercising their freedom to think and speak for themselves one blogpost at a time. . .yeehaw!
Bawahahahahahahah! Classic. Better watch out Cat…almost 200 unique visitors a day since we’ve resurrected this thing…
I was thinking about this while reading the above posts: Someone should open a twitter account and just tweet transcripts of Judah’s nonsensical sermons… see how long it takes him to stop talking about himself and actually start a message.
Or, maybe not… I bet security would catch on eventually and work you over in the parking lot near the basketball hoop…
It all comes down to substance versus entertainment.
I think this is what separates the really great preachers from alot of the showmanship we see in evangelical christianity today.
Many shallow preachers spend most of their sermons simply talking about themselves and their own life, clothing, cars and new homes……
As I’ve grown more I have come to appreciate more than just entertainment from a pastor. I really think pastors like John Piper, John Macarthur, Mark Driscoll, and Matt Chandler etc. etc… draw from a much deeper well than what we see from alot of hollywood Christians.
From what I know about what John Piper thinks about Mark Driscoll, he might shudder to think that his name appeared next to Mark’s!
Matricks John Piper regularly speaks at Mark Driscolls church.
You might be thinking of John Macarthur (who btw has been openly critical of some of Driscolls comments).
Anyways that was besides the point. I was trying to point out a group of ministers who have alot more substance in their preaching style.
Good call! I got mixed up on my names. I stand corrected:
Problem solved! Ah, if other things in life were only so easy!
I do agree that Driscoll’s messages do go deeper than other pastors who are regularly discussed on this board. I may not agree with Driscoll and his philosophies, but I will admit that he provides more depth, than say a Judah Smith… I don’t know if that is really saying much, but I mean well by it.
I’ve got to post this video it is so funny it sorta reminds me of Judah. =)
Wow… that does remind me of him, except that Judah has a more subtle and discerning style.
Compare that vid at 2:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLGLBVSpBzY&feature=related
With Judah at 1:50, in this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NwH_et2g8o
and Judah here at 2:30… he wants to put a bow on himself and have his wifey to open him up like a present under the Christmas tree…
[Comment ID #37357 Will Be Quoted Here]
Wow…love this. So sad how so true this is!
It sorta reminds you of Judah? From every ‘testimony’ and unblocked memory shared here from past events up there -I’d say yea! I can’t believe how close it was. The flamer comments were too funny!
Comedy spoofs are still the best teacher to show how totally ridiculous this world of Entertainment Christianity truly is.
We may just be inspired to do our own version on ‘The Patriotic Church’ across town.’
I’ll start building a true to scale model of the Abraham Lincoln Memorial. Now that is a house of worship!
It just goes to show how mainstream this form of Christianity has become– how so many youth pastors have bought into it to such a degree that they can be so easily parodied.
[Comment ID #37357 Will Be Quoted Here]
Finally got around to seeing this vid! I love the part where he’s standing in front of the word flame that’s on fire and the letter F isn’t showing and all you can see is Lame! and then he’s talking about how the kids are gonna burn at the stake!
It must have been so fun making this and the creators of it must know Judah – who else refers to sex with his smokin’ hot wife while talking to a group of unmarried kids!?
I had to look up the word Igatius – (Bishop of Antioch noted especially for his epistles. He was martyred during the reign of the Roman emperor Trajan. ) Alot of great subtleties in this video!
[Comment ID #37358 Will Be Quoted Here]
Thanks for the comparison vids Matricks- so much similarity!! You are joking about Judah having a more subtle and discerning style right?
I don’t know if this is the right blog category on which to post (feel free to direct it and delete this comment).
Anyway, I have been following the blog for a long while, sort of lingering. I am a young woman, attend City Bible Church in Portland Oregon (can’t give any more details at the moment) and at first was completely offended by the posts here. But, I have to be honest… over the last year, I’ve totally begun to agree with nearly everything I read here. Really, I feel like someone who has woken up from a dream. I grew up in the church and have always known it as the only (my) church. I’ve definitely attended others, but it was frowned upon greatly when I left temporarily to try out another church for an extended period of time. I really appreciate what you’re doing in a lot of ways, by offering a chance for us to examine what we’ve always known. I have a lot of things to pray about and a lot of situations to think about, but right now, I honestly feel trapped. I can’t expose who I am, but I wanted to ask you to continue supporting others who have come to realize there is something majorly wrong in the leadership.
Anyway, I wanted to comment on something totally different than that, though, and apologize for the convoluted method… I’m not organizing thoughts well tonight. I also want to let you know I’ll probably be around more as I finish up some other obligations… again, can’t say quite now what those are… it would be dangerous.
Somewhat on topic with the blog I have chosen to post my comment…
” I showed the twitters to my family and they agree. Now, who as a youth pastor or a pastor over a church with a HUGE populace of young people would stoop so shallow as to send a twitter like that? I’m not overweight, but I know how damaging something like that can be to any young person’s life. All of it was fine to me, except the word “skinny”. Seriously?! If anyone would emphasize spiritual qualities (at least the amazing woman of God part – if that’s really a spiritual quality) and then in the NEXT twitter… point out that she’s skinny and gorgeous just sends the totally WRONG message. If you’re not skinny, you won’t be noticed or promoted by the “pastor of the century”. “Your pastor will be sure to find you the perfect husband/wife if you’re only gifted and skinny.” I nearly choked on my own breath. My heart breaks for the young people who receive those twitters and have self-esteem issues already. I wish I could just tell him to his face what kind of damage he’s causing emotionally to many young woman (and men) out there who will just have to “tough it out – that their pastor doesn’t notice them or talk with them or invite them to coffee because they’re not skinny or gifted”. Yeah, so it’s his cousin, but so what? I think it’s sick to call your cousin skinny to thousands of followers. Did he and his wife ask his beautiful cousin first if they could do this to her? I’m sorry, but I’m glad I’m not related and not subjected to the emotional torture. Am I out of line?
I received two twitters today from Judah Smith. I don’t know who Tracy Wilde is and I don’t want to target her, but he posted a twitter saying, “my cousin @TracyWilde… single, gifted, and amazing woman of God! (great tweets)… My wife wants you to know @TracyWilde is also skinny and gorgeous!
NoStatusQuo,
No you’re not out of line. I can somewhat understand Judah tweeting “My beautiful cousin” but why the comment on skinny. It’s shallow, superficial and there are numerous young women with body image issues and eating disorders. And you’re telling kids (especially girls) that it is all about appearance. In my opinion, Judah is being immature, unwise. As a youth leader or person kids look up to, he needs to set a better example and model maturity. If he doesn’t like that he should have no business being a youth pastor or working with teens. I could say the same thing for anyone working with youth.
I’m not sure if he’s trying to be real. It’s fine for pastors to be real people but there’s a way to do it while being mature, level-headed and wise.
Thanks.
Yes, I totally agree. It also discredits the other pastors when they go above and beyond to “endorse” him. I’ll be back when I can.
Nina said:
Yeah, except for now he is a head pastor!
I think that Judah probably was trying to be funny and referencing an inside joke (perhaps) between him and his cousin. Now, assuming that is the case, why the heck isn’t he realizing that he is speaking to a group of people that have no idea of the context?
It seems to me that he really doesn’t have an understanding of his influence, but why should he? After all, it’s not like he earned his position.
NoStatusQuo, you were wondering about Tracy Wilde. She is Ken Wilde’s daughter. Ken Wilde is the pastor at Capital Christian Center in Boise, Idaho. Ken Wilde is Wendell Smith’s (founder of The City Church) brother in law, hence Judah’s uncle. Tracy’s brother (Krist, not to be confused with Christ) is the youth pastor at Capital Christian Center. Confused yet?
In summary, think of it this way:
Seattle = Boise
The City Church = Capital Christian Center
Wendell Smith = Ken Wilde
Judah Smith = Krist Wilde
Wendy Smith (Judah’s sis) = Tracy Wilde
*** Note that Wendy Smith = Tracy Wilde if and only if Tracy gets with the program and marries a famous pastor like Wendy did.
Speaking of Tracy, she has been here on this board. Here she is beginning at the 7th post:
http://www.citybusinesschurch.org/blogblog/2008/05/14/judah-smiths-protege/
NSQ said,
That statement is so telling, and sad.
Welcome, NSQ. For myself, I’m not encouraging rebellion, which some probably think we are. I’m encouraging awareness and discernment — both of which are apostolic directives in Scripture.
You have no idea the laughs I get from being fans of judah smith, generation unleashed, doug lasit… etc. on facebook.
NSQ! NO! You are not out of line – you are discerning. Take it from someone who knows first hand. This family is a vortex. Period. We here in Boise feel deeply sorry for anyone who has married into this family or is remotely related. The only thing we can compare it to is the Stepford Wives. There is something deeply wrong with the entire clan. Deeply wrong. And it has most likely been wrong for generations.
Just stay clear of them – don’t stay under their spell. Ask God for deliverance. You deserve a good and unconvaluted God-given life.
You may think I’m joking or being flippant, but I’m not. I’m saying that anyone in their right mind within a 10 inch radius should flee, run for your life!
Now, back to the topic at hand. Judah has twittered about his cousins womanly virtues for the entire world to see online. Judah and the family powers that be –his wife, his girl cousins, his metrosexual guy cousin and his unfortunate wife (and I mean that in respect to her position), his aunt and uncle, (and perhaps his parents if they even really care), have probably decided it is high time that Tracy marry. She had a go of it last year when the young man died prenuptially suddenly and she has been healing since, which authenically gives us pause (because it would take considerable time to heal and, in a normal life as we all know it, we would wish her well and hope she has a nice life). However, the clan has most likely decided that it is time for Tracy to move on. Nevermind that she may not be ready. But I digress. Who knows whether she’s ready or not. Perhaps, in reality, Tracy herself is moaning of not finding
a famous mega ministry big shot starsomeone suitable to marry, so the mega ministry big shot cousin has picked up the gauntlet and is going to get the job done through twitter. I guess the type of man that would suit them because it has to suit THEM, the collective THEM) would be one as shallow as they are. I can hear their testimony echoing through the Christian Culture of Fame “We met on Twitter!” Seriously, they will attract not one but many of these types.As if there were no eligible worthy young men in Tracy’s midst in Boise that you have to adveritise on Twitter? Of course, if one such male would exist, she, and they, would not recognize his value and worth if he is not currently rich or in a high profile ministry position. If such a young man is waiting in the wings, he should not be dismayed but remember that the Biblical King David originally went unnoticed by seemingly powerful men as did his ancestor Joseph. This young man should do his best to remember that he is important to God and everyone who knows him and believes in him, and what God has in store for him has nothing to do with the shackles of human control – he needs to be free to live his life unfettered for God and for his own sanity. He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord. a Good Thing does not involve a convaluted family with a history of sociopath behavior which causes anyone unrelated to them feel like second rate citizens.
Ok I really digressed there – but am feeling rather strongly for that young man. HE is the one who needs to be free to move on. It’s obvious if the cousins are twittering Tracy’s eligibility, there is nothing to remain in wait for.
It makes me livid on so many levels. These are the types of people who call themselves Lead Pastors and accept tithe offerings at least once a week from people who believe they have more substance than they possess, but I’m beginning to digress once again. I just wish Tracy, if not the others, could see things for what they really are, disentangle herself from the clan, which seems virtually impossible at this point, and get some ongoing loving guidance and help from a discerning counselor(s), so she too, can have her own life. But if life in a cage is all you know, it’s all you know.
I’m with you on this NSQ, this is truly an exposure of how shallow these people are that the think they can advertise their cousin’s virtues on TWITTER of all things. Aside from everything else, it’s dangerous.
Note that I wasn’t aware of this in my previous post regarding Tracy… that is quite terrible and extremely sad
[Comment ID #37414 Will Be Quoted Here]
Yes agreed. But if she’s ready to ‘move on’ (as so many ppl have told us we need to do – just get over it), perhaps blabbing about it on Twitter isn’t the wisest choice.
Also, didn’t mean to derail the topic earlier from NSQ’s point that the use of the word ‘skinny’ is damaging to women, especially those who struggle with weight. That is the bad taste of the twitter business.
But that IS what’s great about a blog, topics can go hither and yon and then return again.
I went off on the additional bad taste matter – announcing Tracy’s eligibility on Twitter–mainly because it insinuates that real people in the real world in Boise, in Seattle and in Portland apparently aren’t considered eligible ‘marriage material’ – it’s more of that elistest crap that touches a nerve. However, Tracy’s sister and brother both ended up marrying real people from the ‘real’ world – if you can call CCC and TCC the real world. Neither of them were megachurch superstar Ignatiuses, but they do worship the First Families, which would have to be key for survival.
Question, DeTox: I thought I heard years back that Mark and Didi started their own church? Weren’t they were originally part of Wilde’s plant?
…just curious.
[Comment ID #37417 Will Be Quoted Here]
Anna,
They did start their own church over here called Church of the Harvest . They weren’t ever a part of CCC though from the start. It was a major source of contention between Ken and Mark, at least on Ken’s part, that Mark wanted to start an MFI church in Boise bcz Ken tends to be rather territorial. He had reason to worry bcz there’s always a steady of disenchanted followers leaving CCC (but lucky for him there are just as many newbies coming in the front door).
Some of the ppl that leave CCC and have gone to Harvest have found it’s even more controlling the Capital was. My theory about that is, aside from the fact Harvest is smaller so it’s easier to keep tabs on ppl and Didi is Dick Iverson’s daughter (so of course the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree), the CCC leadership just doesn’t care enough to micro control ppl’s lives. They are too into their own lives and the DC thing. They try to get the minions to do the controlling though and that’s just as bad. We all know what happens when you give a minion a little power.
The tweet about Tracy is inappropriate. But I think Judah and Chelsea were just trying to be nice to Tracy; not make every non-skinny girl feel insecure. It’s one of those things that doesn’t come across very well over twitter. The key is hopefully there is someone in Judah’s inner circle who can tell him this.
Being out of college and single in the church is really tough. And the older you get the tougher it gets. I actually feel bad for Tracy. I agree with Detox, the best thing would be for her to find a separate group outside of the church. A group that doesn’t define it’s success by when they get married and to whom they get married. Unfortunately, that’s her only group and it’s really hard to leave.
I hope Tracy finds a great guy who loves her for her, and understands what it means to be married into that family.
[Comment ID #37419 Will Be Quoted Here]
Well said Catalyst – now that I’ve calmed down, my hope is she finds a great guy too. Hopefully Whoever He Is spurs her on in true grace and humility.
It occurred to me she may have responded to Judahs tweet so when I checked out her twitter I see that SHE even thought it was a tad weird. Here’s her response which gave me a chuckle:
LOL. Guess we can give her a nod and remember she’s not exactly defined by her relatives.
Thanks for the great comment NSQ. You’ve sparked a great discussion.
A very self absorded one. Sounds like the kind of comments that I hear from real celebrities using public forums to discuss private matters simply because they like the attention and care very little about their “fans.” The term narcissism comes to mind.
Don’t we all. Don’t we all.
I have never met Tracy, talked to Tracy, or read about Tracy beyond this blog, so I know next to nothing about her. However, she sounds like she's a bit more normal then the others in her family, which I am sure has some effect on her love life. If she was a bit more like them, then she could easily attract one of those types who like living in the glitz and glam of the Christian prosperity world (which I am sure are a dime a dozen up there). However, because she's got a little more sense then that, she probably attracts more sensible guys, who take one look at her family and run far, far away. That's a tough place to be. I feel sorry for her that she has to be in such a family. A family that has caused her love life to be discussed on blogs by complete strangers. Yikes! We should start the good luck Tracy campaign.
Reformer said:
My point exactly.
To that she’d probably twitter a thank you for the very awkward good luck campaign but go for it. Maybe someone should recommend her for The Bachelorette.
I guess one can’t be surprised that Judah would make comments like that to thousands of followers. I still think of Judah as a teenager, even though we are the same age, mainly because he acts like one.
“Hey Tracy, let me advertise you over Twitter and try and hook you up. I’ll say how you are all hot and skinny, and do it so that everyone who looks up to me can read it. Awesome idea.”
Awesome, indeed.
I gained a lot of respect for Tracy after someone posted the twitter reply she sent Judah (never had any doubt of her character). Way to speak up, Tracy, and stand up for yourself!
I can’t imagine what life is like there in the particular family, but aren’t we supposed to turn from slandering others, especially behind their backs? One of my favorite movies is about some young people who, against all obstacles, overcome despite the unfortunate relations. Families is one of the closest bonds we have. Without family, we’re missing a vital part of the understanding of our relationship with God. I am greatly blessed by my family and learned just the other day some more about what they’re like in public away from my eyes. I almost started crying, just because it was so encouraging and such a great example to all they’re around. I’m proud of mi familia. Anyway, it would be important for Tracy to marry someone her family would approve of, but I don’t think they’d force her to marry any particular person, even a potential megachurch pastor (nothing against them at all!). We need to encourage family unity, rather than try to break it up. The important part is realizing church leadership shouldn’t belong to a family dynasty based solely on the family relations, but on the individual relationships with God and their calling/gifting to lead a congregation to a deeper relationship with the Lord.
Thanks, DeTox for the history. I was just wondering how it came to be that two such strong leaders ended up in the same place. Usually MFI spaces them out.
NSQ said:
Since this is a public forum it’s not behind their backs and the only thing I’m hiding behind is my user name.
But I do admit I got a little carried away earlier due to this type of behavior you spoke of on twitter that hit a nerve with me. I admit I still have a tick. a trigger point, and it can go off at any time. [I think it has something to do with the injustice of what I see and hear in regards to these families living such plush lifestyles on tithe and offering money in addition to their 501 c3 status (which means they don't have to pay taxes and can write off all their houses and vehicles). How nice for them to have a constant gravy train at their finger tips while the rest of us DO have to pay taxes and qualify for loans the hard way etc etc.] Maybe someday I won’t react, but for now, I still do and yes I’m working on the forgiveness part of it. Anyway, I further explained this point earlier:
My sense that the family is a vortex is based of the way they chose to operate in the past when I knew them and because they still haven’t changed much from rumblings we hear from others who have been treated similarly. So I don’t think it’s slander mentioning it. If my statements were false that’d be another story. Anything I’ve ever said on here about them is based on their behavior and there’s a reason I’m saying it. I guess I’m looking for justice and I don’t know if I’ll ever see it.
slander: a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report
defamation: communication to third parties of false statements about a person that injure the reputation of or deter others from associating with that person
None of this fits the definition of slander. Also, this is a public forum that I am sure many of the people that we have spoke of on here are aware of (at least the younger ones are). It is public and totally out in the open; it is their decision as to whether or not they choose to acknowledge it (Tracy Wilde has).
These people may live a tax-free life, but not a critique-free one. To be a thorn in the side of some of these people would be good; to let them know that some people out there aren’t buying what they are selling and are actively telling others about it is even better.
I am not here to call any of them bozos, or idiots, or engage in any colorful name calling. I am here to tell them (and others) that they are wrong. Some of that may involve elaboration on subjects and incidents. If I am incorrect in my facts or assertions, then they (or anyone else for that matter) and feel free to call me out.
And in terms of discourse, I feel everyone on this board is very civil and well-behaved, all things considered. The basic premise that I have seen here is that these church leaders provide us with material, and we simply run with it.
To begin with, I am familiar with Pastor Judah and City Church. Reading through this thread I do realize there are negative views on the church, the pastor and his message. I understand the comments concerning his weak sermons, yet the fact that his target audience doesn’t have a firm grasp on the gospel. So, maybe he isn’t as well versed in theology as say, a Baptist preacher, but he does bring young people to the church which usually has a positive effect.
I’m not here to defend Pastor Judah, and I especially appreciate this discussion of religion, both positive an negative.
My thought from reading this thread is that there seems to be an abundance of negativity targeted towards City Church but no conrete positive ideas. It is easy to find negativity in religion. I would just like everyone to maybe realize he does have a positive influence on many young people, and that should not be overlooked.
That is the most tepid defense of Judah Smith that I have read on this blog.
I love it.
Yes, it is possible that maybe some good comes out of Judah Smith’s preaching.
[Comment ID #37452 Will Be Quoted Here] Beddie, thank you for sharing. Yes you are right, there is good that comes from anyone's preaching about Christ but lets be honest, that's probably got more to do with the fact that God is good and the Bible is truth, so despite man's ignorance God can always bring good to a bad idea. I'm sure there are plenty of "famous" cult leaders who had "good" points, messages, and ideas as well. That still doesn't absolve them of the harm they cause. Thus when you lead young impressionable minds that believe everything you say, you better be damn sure you are preaching truth. Telling people that if they serve God long enough, hard enough, with enough zeal, faith, discipline and desire, God will reward them with riches, nice cars, big homes and a beautiful spouse is just flat out WRONG. And Judah should be the first to know this with all that's happening to his dad after years of preaching the same message. So unless you or anyone else can show me where Judah has gotten up in front of a big crowd and said “you know what life can really suck sometimes, even when you’ve done everything your suppose to do,” I will continue to question his knowledge of Christianity and ideas on God and faith.
[Comment ID #37443 Will Be Quoted Here]
anytime Anna – I just tell what I know. What I don’t know is why Mark and Didi chose Boise Idaho. Aside from a perceived visitation from God common among prophetically oriented Christians, maybe it’s a great place to raise kids?
I just realized something! I always knew that Judah reminded me of a bad stand-up comedian, but I just couldn’t figure out who… till now!
They even have the same mannerisms and cadence:
Judah Smith:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NwH_et2g8o&#t=0m50s
Dane Cook:
I'm confused… Are the people on this site Calling themselves Christians or are they just against Judah Smith? If you call your self a Christ Follower here is Just a thought… Friends before you go on judging others like you know them i would highly recommend that you get to seriously know them personally. Once you truly know a person then i guess you might have the right to say a few words. I dont know why christians go on making people who preach the gospel of Jesus Christ look like Dogs. i dont know why christians are so against eachother. Friends if we look at our Bibles we can clearly see that there were many Good leaders that were followed not because they were the Christ but because they were Christ-Like. Within them there was a light that brought people out of their darkness. Arent we all supposed to be a light? Arent we supposed to bring people to Christ? I myself have my own disciples, but does that make me Christ? No!! isent the pastor of the church supposed to be the leader and lead the people to Christ? who cares what a person did in their past? My Bible says that once you Recieve Jesus as your personal LORD all your sins are washed away!! so aperantly not even Jesus cares about your past sins!! Cause he forgot about them!! I hate the fact that our own Christian leaders are getting persecuted by our own Christian Families.. I dont personally know Judah Smith. But i know that what at least he is doing, is something that we all should be doing, and that is preaching the Gospel and guiding people to Christ.
You have disciples?
You must have missed this Jesus said:
I’d like to recommend you give those disciples back to Jesus before he notices that they’re missing and kicks your ass.
and then:
Wow. I know its early in the year…but I nominate this for Hypocrite of the Year award.
Stella, how well do you know us? Just curious…seems you hold that in high regard as to whether you can speak out or not.
I dont know why you go on making people who preach the gospel of Jesus Christ look like Dogs.
[Comment ID #39463 Will Be Quoted Here]
Haha! Nice catch
I like how he starts out a couple sentences, “Friends…” and also “my Bible says..” I picture Stelian with a slightly elevated preacher voice saying the words out loud with a southern drawl as he’s typing. “Friends, it’s time we stand up-uh for persecuted preachers everywhere-uh. For behold judgment-uh and fault-finding-uh is not of God-uh. My Bible tells me “touch not mine anointed-uh and do my prophets no harm-uh. Friends the Bible is clear…”
what does a disciple mean? doesnt it mean a student of a teacher? in that case yes i do have students that i teach the scriptures to.. do they belong to me? absolutely not, but God placed them in my hands to guide them to His heart. didnt John the baptist have disciples? Jesus did say go out and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 28:19) but these students that He placed under me are literally my disciples, they are my students and i’m doing my best to prepare them for the kingdom of God by leading and guiding them to Jesus Christ my personal Lord. Werent Barnabas, Timothy,Titus and mark all disciples of Apostle Paul? He was their teacher And He was the one who sent them out to do the work of Christ. We are all students of Christ, but we teach what we now know to those who dont know so that they to may taste the essence and beauty of out Lord. Luke 6:40 “a student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained is like his teacher.” i will do my hardest to train and guide the students that God placed in my hands so that we may become like our true teacher Jesus Christ.
I never said that i knew any of you, but i also will never judge you.. what i said was just a little advice on being careful when judging others.. “do not judge and you will not be judged, do not condemn and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you also will be forgiven. i dont know you so i cant say whats on you heart, but i also cant write things about gods children and assume things that may not be true. We are all Gods children so i cannot and will never say anything about you guys in a way to judge you. how can a human slander another? i cant even say anything bad against muslims or jehovah witnesses because im desperatly in love with them..
all that im saying is guys, be careful what you write and say about Gods children, because when we say things against His children, when we ridicule them, we are actually hurting God. for me, it hurts me so much to see other christians slandering others..
….. i did not mean that you guys were the ones making christian leaders dogs… i apologize if thats what it sounded like.. what i meant is that with my current job i have the opportunity to travel around the world.. while i travel i get to go to different churchs and it seems like more and more,.. we the ones who call ourselves christians are the ones who push Jesus out of the churchs by accusing and judging instead of loving other people. Jesus prayed a prayer for us and its found in the book of John. He said “Father let them be One as You and I are One, may they also be in Us so that the world might believe that you sent Me.” because we are one with eachother and part of Christ i personally cannot go around saying certain things about any of Gods children, even if they are wrong. instead i pray for them.. the bible says “Love your enemies, do GOOD to those who hate you, bless those who curse you and pray for those who mistreat you.” luke 6:27,28
one last thought, Jude writes that not even Michael the archangel, when he was disputing with the devil did not bring a slanderous accusation against him, but simply he said, “The Lord rebuke you!” if an angel would not slander the devil how far should we go without slandering one another?
The reson i say my Bible is because i’m not sure what religion those who read these posts are. i know that the Morman, Jehovah Witness, Catholic, Orthadox and many other Bibles differ from the one i have.. so i simply used “My Bible” refering to the one that i read and study.
Friend- a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.. I am crazy in love with all humanity. i have so much affection and would give up all that i am just to serve any person.. i am fond of everyone and even if they are at their worst i will always love them and call them a friend..
Thanks Stelian. I was just jesting with ya. I’m sure you mean well, and I say that sincerely. The thing is people here have actually known these people, these so called leaders, so they know whereof they speak. The ones who didn’t know them firsthand know others like them in the same system, so they identify. It’s the whole know-them-by-their-fruit, wolves in sheep’s clothing fleecing the flock, false shepherds who feed themselves, and God’s people are scattered by these shepherds and not cared for (Ez. 34), gone the way of Balaam for reward, etc.
Matt. 7 is a pretty good picture; it would appear those guys who never really “knew” the Lord, were all about present day truths, prophecy, deliverance, miracles and seemed surprise when their many wonderful works didn’t eternally count. Some of these present day leader are doing as much damage hurting people as helping and the warning is being sounded. There is a rottenness at the core that is mass producing phonies, not true disciples.
And on the disciples thing, personally I’ve yet to see a system that has disciples under men, officially called that, where it doesn’t go to the guy’s head, at least in our western hemisphere. G12 is one of the latest models of multi-level discipleship that turns people into just numbers and bragging rights.
-Duck-
jayjaque.. i know what you guys are trying to do is help others by warning them of these false prophets.. your intention is good but many times we get sucked into these ideas and instead of helping others we push them away.. let me explain.. i dont live in the united states.. in fact i live in spain… Only 1% of the population consider themselves christian. the average church here consists of only 20-30 people in their congregations. there actually is a statue dedicated to satan in the capital of spain!! and people wonder why there is so much darkness in our city! in 2007 God did a tremendous thing, he saved my life.. and because of His love for me all i can do is love everyone.. i cant stop… i tried to but i cant.. for a while i had no idea what was happening to me, but deep within my heart God began to teach me of his love.. because of who God is, i cant stop proclaiming his name, His wonders and His truth! i know that Jesus Himself came on this earth to serve his people and so i know that i must to become a servant. what i teach is a servanthood of love for God and Gods desires… i dont teach anything else. but my students know that. they know that we belong to Jesus and that he is everything for us.
now to get back to why i think that by saying things about other christians might do more damage than help its because recently i have had the pleasure and joy to work with many many non-believers.. when i asked them each the simple question; what do they think about Christians? all of them had pretty much the same answers.. this was there response; ” i think they are hypocrits..”(Pedro) i dont want to be one because they argue more among themselves and hurt eachother more than those who dont follow Christ.” (Sara) “why should i be part of this so called loving relationship when my so called fellow brothers and sisters accuse me, call me a liar, and hate me instead of helping me get up like my real family does.” (Enrique) “i dont want to be a christian because than i will have more problems with so called christian people” (Juanho)
jayjaque i can go on writing why non christians dont want to know Jesus.. but i think one of the biggest problems we are facing is christians themselves. Why do we christians spend so much time fighting against eachother instead of leaving our weapons of mas destruction (Words, hatred, sarcasm, envy, etc.) behind. is it that hard for us to learn to love unconditionally so that we can go out and spread the true meaning of the gospel! im not saying to join the wolves in sheeps clothing, but what im saying is to ignore them by not wasting our time thinking about them. they will always exist until Christ returns to rid of them. we have one day to live at a time, how much of our day do we live fully for Christ? how much of that day do we spend thinking about how evil these wolves are? my job is to encourage and love you guys, to lift up your spirits even those who are in the wrong. Remember Jesus lived with judas for 3 years. and even though Jesus knew that judas would betray him He still loved him..
i have a friend in one of the villages nearby who owns a herd of sheep. one day a he found a hurt wolf nearby his house. without thinking he went to his home brought back some supplies and began to tend to this wolf. knowing that at any moment this wolf could bite him. a week went by and the wolf began to get better. one day as the shephard went to check on the wolf, he saw that the wolf was gone! he went home wondering where the wolf went. a few days later while my friend was out tending his sheep a small pack of stray dogs came and attacked his heard. my friend began to yell at them to try and scare them away but it did not work to well. as he began to chase one of the dogs he noticed out of the corner of his eye the wolf that he had helped joined in the fight. eventually the dogs ran away. my friend was puzzled and just sat there and stared at this wolf. the wolf came to him and simply sat next to him.. to this day this wolf still stays with my friend and his sheep. jayjaque i guess what im saying is that no matter how bad the wolf is, if we love him completely there might be a chance for him to change. nothing can stand against love… i believe that if we spend more time loving and encouraging we will see more and more wolves becoming into true sheep.. after all i too was once a wolf, and because of the love of God i am now part of his family, i am a sheep..
Stelian: I love your story about the wolf .. it is a good one, God inspired even. Thank you,
Stelian, your story about the wolf is made up…it’s a classic “preacher” story…one designed to inpsire and support a sermon but not actually true.
I don’t know why Pastors and Preachers think it’s ok to lie to prove a point. Sad.
It’s one thing for a stand up comic to do it…but quite another for someone representing Christ.
Shame on you Stelian.
Ahhh, your just a babe. You got a lot of time before you discover many “truths” about faith and religion and the saving grace of Jesus Christ. I love your zeal though. Never let that go. Just remember, there is a context to everything. People on this site spent years and years under the control of the churches we talk about. The names mentioned are names some of us grew up with (including myself). These are personal stories, not unfounded gossip. Enjoy your walk with Jesus, but never lose sight of one truth. No matter how holy and righteous your good deeds are, no matter how much you love others and represent the goodness of Christ, He loves you no more then the prostitute or drug addict down the street.
Really, last time I checked Spain was >70% Catholic, which happens to be a version of Christianity (though evangelicals would argue that it isn’t).
P.S. If you are in Spain, then that means that Judah’s grip has made it to Europe… it is bad, very bad. People there have such good style… this could all change if Judah has any say in it…
its funny you think that the story of the wolf is not true:) if you dont think that is true than i am more than positive you will never think the testimony that God gave me is true.. My goodness God has done beyond wonders in my life and i honestly believe my friend that all things are possible through God. especially a wolf becoming a lamb!! man im not going to lie to you guys i have nothing to prove to any of you except that even if you dont care or dont believe i will always truly and passionaly love humanity..
I think pastor Judah is a amazing anointed man of god and a great preacher
Matricks, if we are going to ask everyone in this world if they are christians than i promise that 80% of this world will say yes.. but what does it mean to be a christian? it literally means to be Christ-like.. now i garauntee you that not even 10% of this world falls into the Christ-like catogory and that my friend is sad! im no better than anyone else but i will do my best to walk so close to God that others will give Him Glory because of His work through my life. Every person that i talk here in spain says they are catholic, and they attend their service twice a year or every once in a while to confess their sins.. i dont consider that a Christ -like person.. i wish it was that easy but its not.. just because the internet says a percentage it doesnt mean its true… just because a person believes in God and his precious son Jesus that does not make them christians..
by the way, nobody out here knows about paster Judah… people dont even know who billy Graham, or T.D jakes, they havent even heard of reinhard bonke!! i just happened to end up on this site because i was looking for a few quotes and somehow the page i clicked on brought me to this site.. so i read some of the comments.
to the reformer…
thats one reason im so in love with God.. because i was a drug addict, i spent years with prostitutes, i was homeless and recked out of my mind.. and because of the compassionate love that God has for me, i am now crazy for him.. im glad to know with all my heart that God loves my neighbor and my cousins that are involved in what i once was just as much as he loves me and the rest of the world.. it makes it so much easier to share with people..
I find this ridiculous none of you guys really know pastor Judah (I do tho). My question to you guys is why do you guys seem to really dislke him, the city church or anyother churchs on here?
Judah and APS sitting in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G…
I’m glad you know him, bud. Take some time to look around if you are really curious as to WHY? We’ve answered that question exactly 18,729 times…I just got done counting.
That would be nice and we all wish it possible that love would always conquer all. However, there are sociopathic types who prey upon our need to love and will use us for their end result and some of these types are Christians and even pastors.
What is a sociopath? “Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. ” They have no moral compass or code. They scan you to see if there is anything you can give them and if not they move on to the next. They can talk the talk and pull the wool over the eyes of other Christians so easily because they sound like they are walking in truth. The trust remains that they only want you for what they can use you for and care nothing for you.
There’s a reason the Lord has warned us to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. He will give us discernment to know who we can love into the kingdom and who we can’t.
Unfortunately when we speak up about any of this many well-meaning Christians tell us it’s about slander, bitterness and unforgiveness
etc.
There’s an informative book about sociopathic behavior called The Sociopath Next Door that’s helpful in understanding what to look for. You can find it on Amazon.
Haha I love your kissingin the tree commen! I don’t want to read whst people have said in the past. the past is the past. I want to know from you guyswhy you seem to hate the church and stuff.
[Comment ID #39510 Will Be Quoted Here]
What you are really saying is you want us to do all the work quoting what has been said for years so that you don’t have to take the time and read any of the other threads.
[Comment ID #39512 Will Be Quoted Here]
No I’m not saying that all I’m saying is how do you feel about it know in the present.
crazy thing.. im actually working with a sociopath.. he comes over almost everyday, sometimes even twice.. i used to wonder why he kept on coming over because i literally never had anything materialistic to give him.. so i kept on offering love, patience and kindness.. he changed a little but not to much this past year.. im quite familier with sociopaths.. i have met quite a few and you are right in saying we must be careful aroun them.. i believe they can be very dangerous…. but i really cant stop loving him.. i care deeply for him especially when i see his pain.. so i continue to open my door and welcome him in.. oh by the way his actual name is jesus…:) thought you might like that.. its a common spanish name…
the thing is no matter how big of a sociopath, prostitute, drug addict or anything else i cant stop from loving them.. i dont know what God is doing in my heart but im fond of every crazy, hurt person.. and my heart breaks for them when i see them in their situation..
APS,
Have you downloaded the “Judah Hair” wallpaper for your PC, yet?
‘Scrupe
Judah Hair Wallpaper Link
Haha wow there’s a wallpaper!! Nope I haven’t you guys are hilarious
And you guys know that pastor Judah isn’t the youth pastor anymore right the poster stuff is old
What does that matter? If any of my youth group had made anything like that I’d have set them straight in a heart-beat about keeping it Jesus focused. Says a lot about the guy that he doesn’t see that as an embarrassment.
Haha first that’s not pastor Judah second were just having fun and third it’s a poster
People like APS keep this blog going and going and going.
It’s good to see that APS is researching the internet about King Judah and being led to City Business Church. She/he can find a lot of revelation here about TCC… true, stretched, fun truths, Tongue in cheek humor…
APS.. you gotta stop the idol worship of Judah. It will bring you down eventually when God enlightens you to mistruths. You DO know that satan is a master of disguise, right? He uses God’s people to do his dirty deeds too.
APS—- yes people are drawn closer to God at TCC and CBC, et al. Yes people learn to love God much deeper than they have in the past. Yes, LOTS of good comes out of the churches. LOTS of crap too and wounded and abused Christians. There is false doctrine being spewed forth from the pulpit from said churches. There is true doctrine … Get out of your awestruck, starstruck mode and listen to God speaking for yourself and don’t sit there and be spoon fed and led around by the ring through your nose.
I want redrafting about pastor Judah when I found this. If I had a ques for pastor Judah I would go and ask him my self since he’s my pastor. I found this website when my friend was looking for pastor wendells funarl service. Pastors aren’t kings they are people gods called and anointed they are people that obeyed gods voice surrendered to him. Even in the bible it talks about authority and who are we to Jugde others and label others when we don’t have it all together it’s not our job to judge but gods.our obs are to love on peoe ad let gods light shine through us god will handle the rest
* I wasn’t researching
Says who? (Besides you obviously). By the way, I appreciate your willingess to engage us in good humor…seeing as that is the only way we debate these days.
Seriously though, who says Pastors are called by God and Anointed? Judah was called and anointed by Wendall…that we all know. But does that also make him called by God? (I’m not saying it doesn’t…but I’m hoping you will be open to the fact that maybe he isn’t God’s chosen Son)
It’s really by god encountering you and then confirming his word through other he’s put in authority. In the bible it talks about authority that god hand picked the the authority around us and we should obey the authority even good or bad honor then. Exalt when the authority is tellungyou to do something that contradicts the word of god.
I admire your fight APS. Since you and Judah are so tight give him one piece of advice from City Business. If you do I’m sure much of this stuff said about him will go away. Tell him to get up in front of his church and say this…
“God is not a God of riches. He is not a God of prosperity and blessing. He is a God of love and sacrifice. A God of peace and humility. He has called all of us, including myself, to surrender all things for His glory. I apologize to anyone who thinks me or my church represent wealth and prosperity. If you don’t want to tithe, don’t tithe. Give to God what He tells you to give. If you don’t agree with what we preach, feel free to leave. Let God lead you to the proper place for you and your family. And if you look at my direction as more important then God’s, repent. For no man should take the place of the Almighty in your life.” And also remind him to stop accepting $25,000 checks, $3,000 suits, and $50,000 cars as “love offerings” and honorariums. Tell him Jesus was the Savior of Mankind and he never took that kind of stuff in the name of being God’s chosen.
I guarantee you if Judah does that, his entire persona will change. Until then, it will be business as usual.
Haha ya pastor judahs not gonna do tha because gods a god whats to prosper you. Were blessed to be a blessing and I can say for a fact that pastor judah and family are constantly practiceing what they preach and give to the church. Have you thought of aerially asking pastorjudah him self addressing your problems or asking even any of the churches you guys have issues with
Quote of the New Year. Right there. Fantastic.
APS, 2 questions:
1. How do you get God to bless you?
2. Do you believe in a works based salvation?
APS = Unbridled enthusiasm!
Gimme dat dose of zee Holy Ghost
[Comment ID #39544 Will Be Quoted Here]
What do you mean works by salvation
I beleive that we are saved by by grace through faith. We first belonged even when we didn’t know God we still belonged and God still was crazy about us
Jesus is the ultimate treasure all our needs he will proved because he is in us he have favor over our lives Gods got our back
know some of the questions. You may ask me I might not know but I will ask my pastors and get back to you tho(I bet none of you can guess how old I am)
17 (although most 17 year olds know how to use spell check so you may be 71)
I’m using my phone and it’s acting up so sorry for that and I’m younger then 17
Don’t you just love it, when a JUVENILE lectures his/her ELDERS in the Lord?
Makes a person wonder just what the heck they’re learning about leadership in the Body. :/
God can use anyone doesn’t mater what there age is.
Jeremiah 1:4-9
 4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
 5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
   before you were born I set you apart;
   I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.â€
 6 “Alas, Sovereign LORD,†I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am too young.â€
 7 But the LORD said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am too young.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. 8 Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,†declares the LORD.
 9 Then the LORD reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “I have put my words in your mouth. 10 See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.â€
Judah, Judah
He’s our man
Get’s his hairstyle
From a can!
What does his hair style have to do with god[Comment ID #39555 Will Be Quoted Here]
Judah, Judah
He’s a boob
Get’s his sermons
From Youtube
Haha dude your really funny you should write a joke book maybe someone far …. REALLY FAR LIKE I MEAN SUPER FAR OUT THERE WILL READ IT. JK maybe not but your lyrics are incorrect tho
[Comment ID #39558 Will Be Quoted Here]
APS,
Those are new cheers for you, when you’re worshiping Judah.
You’re welcome.
‘Scrupe
Haha Only person I worship is Jesus!! How about you?
APS—
You go!! Don’t let our comments here change your enthusiasm or heart for God.
We have all been there, done that… and is always easier to see things in hindsight at what we should have done or not done.
Good for you for searching the Bible and seeking the truth. You’ll go far in life at this rate!!
There are some good people at TCC so keep connected and always be seeking and asking.
[Comment ID #39563 Will Be Quoted Here]
Thanks a lot!!!
APS,
No offense, but you are a kid trying to lecture adults who have been there and done that. I hate to pull that card, but it is the truth. From the tone of your comments, you don’t quite have the full perspective in life.
That being said, don’t fret… someday you will. However, that someday is not today. You think you know, ah, but didn’t we all…
P.S. To have an adult conversation, do try and correct your grammar and your spelling. Being on a mobile device isn’t an excuse. While, we all make mistakes, it is good to limit them. It makes your arguments seem a little more thought out and educated.
P.S. Oh, and APS– I knew Judah when we were both the same age that you are now… I knew him and was on the same “plane” as him, as opposed to the pedestal that everyone puts him on now.
I should start charging his groupies for some good ole stories about Jonah from back in the day… not that there is anything to say really, being that he was the same swell-haired kid back then as he is now, except he was young and snobby as opposed to early 30′s and snobby.
[Comment ID #39572 Will Be Quoted Here]
It’s true I don’t know everything. I didn’t say I did but you know what? Gods word as all the answers I need. Thanks for the tips though.
[Comment ID #39574 Will Be Quoted Here]
So you went to SHS too
APS: We are all God’s Anointed (Christians) none above another. This is the biggest issue most of us have with Judah and the other churches we talk about here.
It is easy for Judah to give to his church that he prospers from it is very self promoting (something he does very well) and eventually he controls it all anyway.
No I disagree with you wholeheartedly that the bible supports a “Pastor’s Authority” at all and really spends a good amount of time removing this Clergy/Laity barrier that has been put in place to placate the majority.
I’m gonna be praying for you guy. It’s kind of said that you guys have an offense when God had every right to be mad and upset with Euchone of us but instead gave us freedom. Jesus forgave us so why cant you guys forgive who ever offended you. Instead of talking bad about them on some site confront them, then let it go
APS: I have not picked up any offenses nor am I bitter towards TCC. I appreciate much of what I learned there, good and bad. My wife and I completed the entire Trak system through Leadership.
If you want to know why we are frustrated with TCC (and the other CC churches) read Reformers blog on “What is wrong with CBC”.
http://www.citybusinesschurch.org/blogblog/2011/01/18/what-is-wrong-with-city-bible-church/
Have you guys ever confronted the people you have problems with
APS, do you go up to your Pastor every Sunday to have him explain what’s in the weekly bulletin, or do you read the bulletin for yourself? Almost all of your questions can be easily answered if you’d go through the blog and read old threads. You’re making it hard to take your questions seriously when you refuse to read the answers.
[Comment ID #39600 Will Be Quoted Here]
I do talk to my pastor all te time!! Not aboutthe bulletin but about life and hanging out
So, APS, you want an evaluation of a current Judah sermon? Fine. Send a link.
[Comment ID #39597 Will Be Quoted Here]
As the old saying goes…”if I had a dollar for everytime someone asks me this question, I’d be a rich man!”
And the answer is yes, yes, and yes. Don’t matter how much you confront someone who is unwilling to change.
At church today we had a brief ‘greeting’ from a guy from a Bible College. He was talking about how just like doctors and lawyers, pastors/ministers really do need further training after college to learn more about the Word of God and all that…
He ended by saying.. “you can’t give what you don’t have”
Judah Smith popped to mind in relationship to that. A good explanation for his “messages” … his earlier ones about his sex life (giving what he had)….
Except Judah never went to college.
Kind of speaks to the fact that he and everyone in his family (and church leadership) knew that he was going to take over the family business. So much so that no one even attempted to make him go to Northwest (Bible) College, or anywhere like that, just for some window dressing.
That’s pretty awesome considering most people with a family business to pass down usually make their kids go to college, if only so that they can get some respect once they take over the business– after all, no one wants to get bossed around by someone who never even went to community college.
Eh, whateva… Jesus never went to college, either… right?
Nope. but neither did anyone else. Jesus studied in the temple starting at a young age …
And that was my point about Judah…. he has no “higher” learning, thus his base of knowledge is limited .. school of hard knocks.. I doubt that too …
A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.. (Luke 6:40) i don’t know about you guys but i would much rather get my knowledge from God than from man.. You Don’t need college to learn how to become a good leader… the only way a person can be limited in knowledge is by making another person their teacher… all wisdom comes from God.
Stelian, what do you do for money? Who taught you to do that job?
Jesus was a carpenter by trade. Most of the apostles were fishermen. Paul was a tent maker. Do you think those professions were divinely taught to them by God or by a human? Are you saying pastors should receive no human training?
You just need Frank’s book: “The Making of a Leader.”
Ah, now it all makes sense!
[Comment ID #39653 Will Be Quoted Here]
PBC students were required to buy and read and write a paper for Pastor Frank’s class – on the book. Bet he brought in a TON of, what is it called? Royalties. Most of my friends really didn’t like that. The ENTIRE student body being required to purchase a Pastor Frank book every single semester (yep, if you go four years, you will have taken the class 8 times… that’s 8 separate books), and write about how it touched your life. I’d be pretty proud of myself if I had hundreds of students pretending to love my books. They read like sermons. Point 1, point 2, point 3. Subpoint 1, subpoint 2, subpoint 3. Sorry – I’m still reeling from the college bills.
Weird things happened with the bills too. I went to pay for the entire semester, and the sheet they gave us with the fee breakdowns said the registration fee was cut in half for those who paid by the semester. I wrote my check, and they told me, “No, wait… that fee is wrong. It is the same as everyone else”. So, even though it said it on the paper, they went back on the paperwork’s word, and made me pay full price. It is the little things like that that have me convinced there is more going on behind the scenes that I didn’t even know. Sorry, that was a side note. Not a big deal, but just dishonest, and for a poor college student who scrimped for each penny… maybe they knew I wasn’t able to cover all my tithes the semester prior.
Sounds like creative book-keeping to me! But kinda par for the course.
Par for the course?
Guys im not saying that the city church (pastors) or any church that follows this system is doing what is right. i dont live in your country to be able to defend them or you. i honestly cant say that i know what you guys are going through or have gone through. i dont know you guys personally and i dont know how you were hurt by these pastors or churchs.. but what i do know is that if you make the Most High your dwelling place for everything you will succeed, not financially or materialistically but spiritually. when you allow God to become your teacher you begin to learn things that men cant teach you. you learn, in depth knowledge, understanding, faith, trust, belief, strength, courage, wisdom, LOVE, humbleness, humility, gentleness, kindness, Forgiveness, etc… these are things you can only learn to the fullest from God. you may know a little how to be courageous, wise, faithful, loving, humble, yes you can learn the basics of these from men. but you must go to the source from where these came from to learn how to be full in them.
im sorry to hear that you guys were hurt by “Christian People” this bothers me to the core. im sorry to hear about the horrible experiences you guys had with different churches. but the reason churches begin to landslide is because they take their eyes off God the creator of all things including wisdom and focus them on their own knowledge. every week i am visited by Jehovah Witnesses. they are kind and extremely intelligent people. but im sorry to say that everything they know was, and is taught to them by men. they know facts upon facts about their religion. and if you have a basic human knowledge of who God is and what the Bible says, you will be fooled by this world. all wisdom is found in God, and if you want to learn something to the fullest extreme you must go to God.
Fezzik,
the job that i have does not pay me for my work. everything i do is voluntary. i do it because of my love for God. the work that i do was not taught to me by men, but by our generous God who gives wisdom to those who seek it. everything i know was given to me by God through long hours of prayer. i am not better than anybody and i will never consider myself above another person. but if a man wants to be limited in their knowledge they can continue learning from men. im not saying that a person cant learn or should not learn from men. we learn great things from our parents. we learn learn many things from from our friends and even from our co-workers. its good to learn from one another. but if you want to learn something to the fullest extreme… that wisdom is found only in God. Proverbs 2:6; “For the LORD gives wisdom, and from HIS mouth come knowledge and understanding.”
So….you’re trying to tell us to do what Stelian? And then it will all be better? Do you happen to know a guy named Job, because you’re starting to sound like one of his friends.
NSQ: “Par for the course” is an old golf term that means “the way we expect things to be done.” Sorry to show my age.
Jayjacque
Where did you get the idea that i am sounding like Jobs friends? i never blamed you for your mistakes or your situations. im not accusing you of doing anything wrong. the only thing i am saying is you dont need college or school to become great.
im not telling you guys how to live your life.. you can live your life however you want. im not judging you for your beliefs and im not accusing you of anything. True Wisdom is found in God. yes i do agree with learning from one another but our ultimate source of knowledge, understanding and wisdom is given to us from God.
this world is filled with people who either dropped out of college or did not even go. i have met pastors with true knowledge and an actual brain in their head, but they never went to school. they got their wisdom From God. who cares if your church leaders dont have a college degree.. i would rather have a pastor who is completely dedicated to God and seeks God for all the answers than one who got his answers from books, studies, and other people.
[Comment ID #37419 Will Be Quoted Here] You have no idea how cultish Mark and DiDi’s church is. (Church of the Harvest, Meridian, Idaho). They are so controlling and they try to rip families apart. This is a serious warning. They try to pull the loyalty away from parents (which is a God-given, legitimate relationship) to the church and the leadership. Things that were said to a friend: ‘my parents and I are the only thing that stands between you and the wrath of God’, ‘your parents don’t love God because they are not in church every time the doors are open – please process this on your own, without your parents’, ‘You will never be blessed if you leave’, ‘You can not take any of God’s promises with you that have been spoken over you at this church’, ‘I’m not even sure you’re saved’, ‘You’ll never find a church holier than ours’….. Seriously, you have no idea what goes on in that Church. I weep for the destruction that they cause in their wake. The church is so deceptive; they mix so many unsound things with random Biblical truths and the people that are there live in fear. If you ever saw the inside of Mark and Diane Bryan’s church and how it really operates your heart would break. Church of the Harvest is not just a wacky MFI church. These people are dangerous and cruel beyond anything you have every experienced. Their children are also not experienced in ‘real world’ dynamics, but more than that, Mark and DD’s and their children, Kari, Jonathan, and Anna believe they have a mandate from God (kind of like a Hall Pass) to do and say whatever they want in order to promote ‘the church’. Like I said, their cruelty and deception makes your heart ache. Had a woman recently break down in the grocery store and say, ‘my kids won’t listen to me anymore and it feels like my husband is married to Lee Galway (their henchman -elder). I can’t even talk to my husband anymore because I’m afraid that he’ll tell Lee all of my concerns and then I will get in trouble from the leadership. Sadly, they view any criticism of Church of the Harvest or the Bryan family as confirmation that they are doing everything right (because the Bible says ‘all who are godly will suffer persecution) – see how twisted that is. They can’t even see what they are doing. They really think that what they are doing is right. They are deceived. Only God can open their eyes. They’ve even tried to control all the negative info on the web! There used to be several places that people could express their complaints about Church of the Harvest, but they bought them and only allow good stuff to be said now. (they were public type forums) I never wrote on them, but I did read them and was glad that they were on the web. After reading this blog, I searched again and discovered that they hired someone to ‘clean up’ the first few pages of the google search. Mark and DD Bryan think that if you have any constructive criticism that you are coming against the church and you are a heretic and rebellious. They are vicious. DD Bryan is a sad, insecure woman, that will do and say anything to anyone that is in her control to make sure that they only listen to her. She destroys people’s character and causes division among the brethren … which God really hates… I can not stress enough the fear that many people live under that go to Church of the Harvest. If there’s anyway to add Church of the Harvest to your tag line it would really be one of the only beacons of light out there for some people. Some people are so desperate and want to leave so badly but there’s no encouragement or confirmation of their valid concerns easily available on the web anymore. Other pastors around the valley that know Mark and DD, Kari, Jonathan, and Anna have said that what is going on at Church of the Harvest is demonic. This is a cry for help to get information out there. I know there are always going to be people that are easily deceived, but honestly, it’s the families that I’m worried about. Some of these people that ‘get out’, well, it’s hard to describe the psychological damage that’s been done to them. They are usually broken, broken, broken people. The emotional and spiritual abuse that happens at Church of the Harvest is shocking. People that come out of their literally have shell shock and what’s that other disorder that people get after fighting in wars? They ask you to violate your conscience over and over again. Many people buy into it hook, line and sinker because it appeals to our natural man. ‘You tell me what to do, I’ll do it, then I’ll go to heaven’. God allows that. But there are many, many people who feel trapped there. It is so sad to see the monster Dick Iverson has created with MFI, DD Bryan, Debbie Zedwick and many, many other ‘churches’ that have come out of Bible Temple. The relational dysfunction, the unsound doctrine, etc…. DD Bryan literally feels like they have a new brand of Christianity. I want people to experience and know Jesus and cherish their relationship with Him over their relationship with their ‘pastor’. Mark and DD Bryan are trying to love Jesus. In so many ways they are victims themselves of their own upbringing – of the only thing they’ve been modeled, but that in know way excuses the damages they are inflicting on families. When they first came over to Boise they were nothing like how they are today, although it was probably there in seed form. A lot of the twisted relationships and unsound doctrine and control started coming in with ‘cell groups’ (google ‘The Shepherding Movement’) and they have made an idol out of ‘influence’. Idols cause us to do many things that we would otherwise not do.
Wow, Freedom. Thanks for your insight from experience. You are right about how the fruit comes from the root.
(You might get more readers if you broke your post into paragraphs. When there are this many words in a row, I get cross-eyed!)
Thanks Anna! I didn’t know that about posting. I appreciate the tip:)
Dick Iverson Apr 25, 2008 @ 1:25 pm | delete
I am proud of my daughter and son in law for the great work the Lord has done through them. I certainly recommend, if you are looking for a caring church, who will sincerely love you and serve you, than this is the church you should visit.
Is Pastor Iverson the pastor’s wife’s father at Church of the Harvest?
http://www.squidoo.com/churchoftheharvest
“COH rocks. I have attended this church for several years now. I can’t imagine leaving!!!! Relevant and practical. Fast pace and exciting. Cutting edge and totally hype. This church redefines the meaning of “church”. It sheds a whole new light on life and faith! It brings depth to reality and meaning to every day life. I recommend it completely!!!!!!!!”
This was posted by the children’s pastor of the church, Jonathan Bryan. Is he related to the pastor?
[Comment ID #40017 Will Be Quoted Here]Yes. Iverson’s oldest daughter, is the pastor’s wife.
[Comment ID #40019 Will Be Quoted Here]
And the children’s pastor is a son and the worship leader is a daughter? I’m guessing based on the last names. A little kingdom over there.
[Comment ID #40018 Will Be Quoted Here]It has been too long since I visited Boise, I’m not sure who Jonathan Bryan is. The pastor is Mark Bryan, so it looks like another family member. “Cutting edge and totally hype” haha, hype sounds about right if some of Freedom’s quotes are correct.
[Comment ID #40020 Will Be Quoted Here]Yeah, but not the Kingdom I’m a part of.
Church staff at Church of the Harvest: Mark Bryan ‘senior pastor’, DD Bryan (the real senior pastor and lead elder) Kari Byran ‘worship’, Jonathan Bryan ‘youth’ (used to be children’s pastor) (they’re grooming him you know), (DD has said that her daddy never gave any of the girls any opportunity to be in ministry and she was determined not to let that happen to her kids) I’m sure Anna Bryan will be on the payroll soon if she’s not all ready, Debbie Zedwick (Dick Iverson’s oldest daughter – doesn’t even have the decency to mention that she’s married to Phil Zedwick on her bio – mentions her kids though) Lee Galway, David Argon (complete yes men). Lee Galway has even been in meetings where Mark Bryan has kicked someone’s foot as hard as he could out of anger and all he could do was look down at the ground. (who kicks people?) (and there are a couple other part-timers).
Talk about atrocities that happen in Mark’s office? When the moment is right, he let’s people have it. There are some people I know that even have recordings of meetings they’ve had with Mark Bryan. Scary stuff.
It’s always interesting when people give a church credit for being awesome and changing their lives; instead of Jesus. Always a red flag.
[Comment ID #40024 Will Be Quoted Here]
So true. Why is that not a problem for pastors in many of these churches? Shouldn’t the pastors be feeling like failures in that regard? Yes, they do many things right – but if the focus is taken from the Lord entirely as is often the case when the “church” is the goal, what does that say about their hearts… leading the children and their sheep astray?? It’s a rhetorical question. I don’t want to judge – just to muse aloud. Those red flags have become so much more apparent since I left – and I’m being judged daily… sometimes to my face. It’s not a fun feeling, but I know I’m doing the right thing… something God has called me to be doing, so I’m good with it.
Just got out of the hospital. I’m sitting here with a neck brace and broken neck in 2 places from a bad auto accident. And my glasses broke too, so trying to use someone’s reading glasses. For my first day back thought I’d try and read one post. This one caught my eye as I went to PBC with the bryans and zedwicks. It just makes my neck hurt even worse and very grievous to the heart!
Welcome to the blog Freedom and thanks for your informative post. Do you still attend Harvest or are you free of that vortex now? Very disturbing stuff indeed that you mention. Sounds worse than CCC. (Speaking of CCC they are no longer part of MFI but that doesn’t mean the zebra has changed its stripes.)
When we went to CCC we had to read Dick Iverson’s life story – can’t remember the name of the book. I do remember that in it he mentions he had an abusive father which explains alot of the tactics Iverson used in leadership that he thought a good thing. Needing to maintain control is one of them.
If a person doesn’t get help over the psychological and emotional damage brought on by their parents the cycle continues. So we can only guess what Dee and her sisters went through. They may not have been physically abused in anyway but we can guess that the control issue was a big part of her upbring especially when hearing control is a big part of their church.
Mark himself comes from a convaluted upbringing. His father was a pastor who had affairs with various women in his churches. (We found this out here on this blog when people who attended some of the churches posted about it.) It’s a sad thing all the way around. Maybe the control and anger issues he is showing are rooted in a deep fear of becoming like his father so the pendulum swings and he’ll be darned if any of his people aren’t going to toe the line himself included…
None of what I am saying is to excuse the terrible behavior of the leaders I’m just taking a stab in the dark in guessing what causes a church to spiral downward this way.
In comparing Harvest to CCC there are similarities – like the worshipfest of the lead pastor children of their parents, how they are all employed by the church and none have really experieced the real world like the rest of us. But in my recollection of Ken and Connie their controlling behavior manested in a subtle way – still fear based but not the type of tirade behavior you are talking about with Mark and Dee. K & C had pretty normal parents although K’s dad seemed quite authoritarian and hard to please. It just interesting that both these churches who have a history with Dick Iverson end up having children who are fiercely loyal but can’t seem to fly from the nest. Anyway, it makes for an interesting study.
I’m sure psychologists would tell us all control is motivated by fear of what will happen if we don’t have control.
I think it’s PTSD – post tramatic stress disorder.
And yes we felt that way when we left CCC but if you ever told anyone that they thought we were stretching it a bit.
I’m seriously wondering if we should start a support group in Boise for those who are seeking a place of refuge with otheres who have gone through spiritual abuse. I’ve heard of those who leave Harvest that are pretty messed up. Maybe they already meet I don’t know.
If it was semi-organized I know of other ex-CCC ppl who may want to come. Even if the abuses aren’t identical there is still alot to get over. It’s like coming out of a cult. I actually do have a few people I bond with over this that’s why we are called detox church group so if you are interested let me know or have the blog administrator email me your email. I’m kind of leary of making it a formal thing but if to meet loosely for coffee at first I could manage that. We could see where it goes.
Also there’s the similarity of dividing families that Freedom mentioned earlier. CCC doesn’t encourage family members who are still attending Capital to reconcile with their familes that have left. i.e. if one spouse leaves and goes to a different church I guess CCC thinks the answer is to keep the attending spouse within their walls even if at the detriment of the marriage. It makes the spouse who left feel like a deserter and traitor whose spouse is still there held like a captive. Same goes for adult children who leave.
It’s a free country – people should be able to leave a church if it isn’t working for them. But they confuse the issue with a bunch of God’s will spiritual jive and make it complicated which empairs our freedom to choose.
If the lead pastors truly cared for these people’s marriages and families, they would encourage them to go WITH them for the sake of family love and unity. That certainly didn’t happen in our cases.
And how many ex leaders of CCC have talked about how the church divided them at home. That’s where the seeds were planted if their eventual leaving…
Sure wish joebib was still posting. He remembers the history better than I do.
Didi (Diane) Bryan is Bro. Dick’s second daughter. Debbie (Zedwick) is the oldest, as stated. Mark and Dave Bryan are sons of the pastor who was in Aberdeen, WA. Mark and Didi started the church in Boise.
Dave and his wife (who is also familially connected — help me out, old-timers!) have a church in northern California. They are heavy into deliverance ministry.
Jayjacque! I hope you are healing quickly!
[Comment ID #40027 Will Be Quoted Here]
Jay, Im so Glad you are ok! I will be praying for a speedy recovery!!!
Blessings to you and your family during this time!!!
i guess “ok” is an overstatement, Im glad your Alive!! ..
[Comment ID #40027 Will Be Quoted Here]
Yes sorry to hear you went through all this! I must have missed your comment because I was busy
ranting!commenting the same time you left yours. We will be praying for you from Boise and hope you have a speedy recovery. What happened? (but only tell us if you feel up to it)Detox, we escaped by the grace of God. Leaving the past behind, but hoping that others can be warned. Was hoping the post would benefit someone, but I don’t think it comes up in a google search:(
An old friend of mine used to refer to situations like you described, Freedom, calling it a “Jezebel spirit” … it used to bother me, the insinuation that the demonic was behind it, together with the promiscuous connotations that the name ‘Jezebel’ brings up.
Still don’t know if I’m comfortable calling it a “Jezebel spirit”, but I do see some behavioral similarities … someone who is self-absorbed / centered, lawless (a law unto themselves), manipulative, willingness to sacrifice others to preserve self, etc. All aren’t necessarily traits embodied in a single person, but where a church is a body, the body characteristics can take on a ‘Jezebel-like’ quality.
What troubles me about calling it the ‘Jezebel spirit’, was my friend’s notion that a demonic spirit was behind it and that it could be cast out, rendering the person, or church body, clean and healthy. While there may be some demonic influence behind a church with Jezebel character, the sad fact is that the leadership has willingly submitted to that kind of dysfunctional behavior and are in collusion to maintain their power. Even if the demonic influence, is there is one, were run off, the same people with the same dysfunctional relational issues are still in charge. Guess I’m saying even when the demonic influence is removed, the flesh is still evil.
I’ve known some people who had Jezebel-like qualities and who approached others as something to be manipulated to get what they want. Money, power, fame, doesn’t really matter. That Jezebel ‘character’ can be a heartless user, even ‘murderer’ of sorts to get what it wants.
Proverbs 6:26 comes to mind:
[Comment ID #40045 Will Be Quoted Here]
Good to hear Freedom. It will be of benefit even if they block the search. The Lord will bring people your way, either in contact face to face or on the internet. Sometimes we can only help one person at a time, which is ok bcz that’s how the Lord does it – one person is so valuable that he will leave the flock in search.
Tell that to the megachurch pastors who are so drunk on their numbers they forget it’s the individual the Lord has come to seek and save. But that is a rant for another time!
Amen to your entire comment Scrupe – my thoughts exactly.
Perhaps those with the Jezebel-like qualities are called sociopaths today in non-Biblical terms.