It's coming out that the problem of child abuse in the Catholic Church was quite widespread. The most recent accusations involve a priest in Milwaukee, Wisconsin who molested hundreds of deaf children: To many, Father Murphy appeared to be a saint: a hearing man gifted at communicating in American Sign Language and an effective fund-raiser for deaf causes. A priest of the Milwaukee Archdiocese, he started as a teacher at St. John’s School for the Deaf, in St. Francis, in 1950. He was promoted to run the school in 1963 even though students had disclosed to church officials in the 1950s that he was a predator.
Victims give similar accounts of Father Murphy’s pulling down their pants and touching them in his office, his car, his mother’s country house, on class excursions and fund-raising trips and in their dormitory beds at night. Arthur Budzinski said he was first molested when he went to Father Murphy for confession when he was about 12, in 1960. “If he was a real mean guy, I would have stayed away,” said Mr. Budzinski, now 61, who worked for years as a journeyman printer. “But he was so friendly, and so nice and understanding. I knew he was wrong, but I couldn’t really believe it.” Just a reminder, but when you preach complete obedience. When questioning authority is a sin. When it's improper to report the sin of a pastor. You create situations like this. Where a person in power can abuse people without consequence. And of course, they're often nice wonderful people, in public.
City Business Church
It is not by grace that one enters the kingdom of heaven, but by tithing. – Damazio 3:16
This should be on a billboard in every American city.
Or printed out and put onto the windshield of every car in the BT parking lot.
I’m amazed at the damage these churches do – complete obedience was scary, hurtful and painful for me!!! The Wilde’s, Meistrell’s & Bryan’s continue the damage in the Boise ID area. Thanks for this website…it’s a step in the healing & knowing I’m not alone.
I’m amazed at the damage these churches do – complete obedience was scary, hurtful and painful for me!!! The Wilde’s, Meistrell’s & Bryan’s continue the damage in the Boise ID area. Thanks for this website…it’s a step in the healing & knowing I’m not alone.
This is a sad situation. Complete obedience and authority without accountability will create situations. However, I hate to say this but sometimes I feel that Christians in general tend to be naive, ignorant or sheltered to the point of stupidity about realities. The Christian community does not know how to handle these types of situations.
Many people, but particularly Christians, tend to have this idea that an abuser is like the abusers or bad guys portrayed in the movies. When movies portray an abuser, they depict him as person who looks creepy on the outside and right away looks like an abuser. However, the reality is that abusers in real life do not look conscpicuous at all. Ask any police officers and they will tell you that abusers look unsuspicious and like a nice guy. And many people tend to fear strangers but majority of crimes happens from acquaintances and people who already have contact with you.
Taking that idea, it’s the same with spiritual abuse. Christians think that a false teacher is the guy in orange robes downtown or a Hare Krishna cult leader. However, deception is subtle. The most abusive pastors who take advantage of people, use God’s name to build their own personal ministry empire are people who appear like “nice, godly” people, have a lot of of charisma. They will preach what we want to hear and water down the gospel and have absolutely no fear of the Lord.
People are easily enamored by celebrity pastor figures and personalities that they dont see the realities. People fear other people instead of our Lord.
Do you think they know they’re doing it? I mean… how often do leaders and pastors lead and pastor with the strong belief/conviction that they are doing what God has called them to do? And, how often do they study hours every day in the Word, then manipulate, and believe it’s just guiding their flocks? How can we, as the congregation or individuals in the church, tell the difference between “tough love guiding” and “manipulation”? I’m trying to figure it out myself. I have had manipulative people in my life that I broke free of, but all the time I was under their authority, I gave excuses for their behavior or control… they know better than I do, they were placed in that level of authority either by someone with wise understanding or by God Himself, they are my pastor/counselor/mentor… yeah, the reasons could go on. Too many times, though, I’ve given my trust and energy to serve a ministry, a pastor, a vision, but the focus is always on what you can do for the kingdom/church/people, rather than actually relating with and ministering directly with the people in the first place. I’ve reached a point where I feel USELESS! I have no doubt I am saved. I have no doubt I am redeemed by the blood of the Lamb and by His grace, I will live eternally in His presence. But, meanwhile, what do I do? How do I find a church that is going to effectively reach others without leaving them feeling empty, used up, and tired? I hear tell on here of churches that you would recommend. Is there a place we can mention those churches as a resource for those trying to find somewhere to grow and learn and reach without causing those churches (good ones) problems?
My friend, you already answered your own question:
There is no reason you can’t be a 100% God-serving Jesus-following christian *without* being dependent on a church.
Yes, I agree that “going to church” is important, and should be part of your life if you can do it… but it is *not* necessary if you are spirit filled.
The fact is that you have the spirit of god inside you, already prompting you to spend time with this person, or give money to that person, or share the gospel with someone else, or don’t do this or do that..
My point is that you can serve the people around you, just as Jesus did, without having to be “in” a church.
The church, imho, should be a local meeting point for christians to get together.. share fellowship, hear teachings, discuss those teachins, etc… but NOT a place of dependency or the sole place where you bring people to be “saved”.
No… YOU are why people should be saved. Because the people you see and interact with every day see something inside you they don’t have. YOU are the salt of this earth, and every person should crave what you have.
I hope that makes sense. Listen to the voice of god inside you — the holy spirit, and let that guide your life (and discern what you hear from the pulpit).
NoStatusQuo said:
It is pretty easy to imagine how money and power can slowly turn that little voice in one’s head into something more “divine”. After all, how hard is it to talk yourself into doing what you already want to do (aka self-serving things)?
How do you think that these types convince themselves into believing that God wants them to have the type of lifestyle that they so readily indulge in? They just listen to the little voice that tells them what they want to hear, and ignore the little voices that say otherwise.
If the feeding of the five thousand would have happened today, I tend to think that these types would have found a way to believe that God wanted them bring all that food home and hang on to it. After all, God used them to perform a miracle… it’s not like those five thousand others had God’s blessing and deserve a cut of it…
It’s very easy to become “I-centric” and find ways to eliminate cognitive dissonance… especially when you have a group of people (your church members) that are trained not to question.
What?! You mean take the food home and not share it around evenly and selflessly?! Okay, I’m just being sarcastic there.
I shared something personal (not too personal, but needing pastoral counsel) with a pastor at my church (CBC). Before I did, it was a great accountability relationship, where texting was encouraged. I often received messages that reminded me of Scriptures that seemed very applicable to the day’s challenges (and victories) before this pastor knew what was going on. Once I shared the personal issue, it was “bye bye”. About 2 weeks after no word, I sent a text voicing how I felt suddenly cut off for being honest. That pastor was very honest in that they didn’t feel qualified or that they knew me well enough to continue to mentor me. So, that was the last I heard… about 8 months ago. It happened once before in highschool when I shared something with a teacher at my Christian school… something my family was going through (after graduation). A relationship of trust, openness, and quality mentoring suddenly cut short. Several weeks later, I found out from a friend that that pastor-teacher (the one after highschool) had shared my family’s private matter with the daughter in the family who then shared it with a friend. When I went back to visit my highschool, no one would talk to me. It wasn’t even anything bad… they just felt awkward (and I think embarrassed that they had contributed to the whole problem). I quickly learned that sharing my feelings, concerns, or problems was a big “no no”. So, here I sit… someone without a mentor in my life… someone who is confused about a lot of things in regards to the Christianity I once knew (or thought I understood), someone who doesn’t care much about sharing with people. Someone who realized just last week that all the friendships of the last 5 years have been significantly shallow. Everyone was so selfish in their motives. I volunteered to be involved in some areas in the church where they desperately needed help in which I know I’ve been called, but NEVER heard back from the directors (after several tries). Maybe it’s a problem with me – I’m wish I knew. I’m not this frustrated or annoying in real-life.
I know, though, that everyone serving in that ministry right now is from the typical CBC mold of which I don’t belong.
I’ve come to realize that if you’re always happy, are skinny, are outgoing, and always have a smile – “doing good”, and are always quoting Scripture on facebook/twitter/myspace/etc, you’ll move quickly up the ladder. If you’re human or have any doubts whatsoever about the way things are run, you’ll never be able to serve in the areas in which you have great interest or desire. I hold no grudge, though. I know who I am in Christ – and I know my strengths and weaknesses. One of my greatest weaknesses is that I have never voiced my opinion (good or bad) in public, beyond the context of the comfort of my home or computer.
If I don’t do things “exactly so”, I’m rejected. So, is that what a relationship with God is really like? I think NOT! Goodness… I sin. You sin. We all sin. It is only by the grace of God that we stand a chance (not literal “chance”) – that we can be free from the bond of sin. So, why is it that if I don’t fit the mold in the church, I’m shunned? Why is it that if I do something a little differently or don’t do things exactly the same way or agree with the “programs” (a lot of things I could mention here), I don’t matter anymore? I’m so glad I’m loved by God – and that I don’t need to worry about worshiping people (praising them for salvation or life).
It is important to note, though, that we can worship Him in any service in any building in any context. For now, it may mean I’ll continue to worship the Lord and learn about Him in the context of CBC. After all, it’s all I’ve ever known – I’m scared to leave.
There is no reason to leave CBC if you don’t feel comfortable to do so. Now that your eyes are opened… you can sit through the sermon and listen to the holy spirit discern what is right/wrong or true/false or just gray and perhaps something you need to search scripture about to confirm/deny/reject/accept, etc…
The point is that you are no longer just another sheep sucking at the teat of whatever is dribbled off the pulpit to feed the masses.
With regard to “fitting in”… I highly recommend joining a non-church organization or two and giving of your time in some other non-church-related capacity.
There’s certainly nothing in the bible (as far as I’m aware) that says you can only “minister” for your local church.
What’s to stop you from joining the local “secular” food bank and helping them? Or local youth club? Or whatever.. the point is that you would be in a secular environment where your light can shine. You can be the salt-of-the-earth God intended you to be, and which the holy spirit has equiped you to work in.
I haven’t a clue what is your “ministry” or “giftings”, but I’m pretty certain there is a big place for you outside the confines of CBC.
I don’t know if this describes you or not,… but the vast majority of people who volunteer and do “ministry” in church only is because they want the recognition from pastors and others. They are not “serving” because it is the desire of their heart to serve the lost. They are simply filling a need to be noticed, accepted, desired, etc.
If that’s you.. then definately you should NOT volunteer in a church. It’s better to do nothing, then do something from the wrong reasons.
Pick up the local paper and look at the “help wanted” ads for volunteer organizations in your local area. Visit them and see what you can do to help. You’ll be amazed how much people love those who act like Jesus… and you’ll most likely soon have plenty of opportunity to build real relationships with non-Christian people…who will begin asking you about why you’re “different”. Then… let the holy spirit lead your words, and you will see lives impacted in front of your eyes.
I may need to hang around CBC… which may be why I’m hesitant. The service on Sunday was really good – and I was impressed with the honesty at which Pastor Frank laid the foundation for the Gospel (even if 2-3 of his references were incorrect – his assistant needs to proof-read those).
I definitely don’t like being in the spotlight, which may be part of the problem. I’m so comfortable here being the screen in my comfort zone – and though I’d like to be involved somewhere specific, maybe they see one of my biggest obstacles is shyness. In person, I’m quite comfortable. On stage or under scrutiny, I crumple.
I find great fulfillment and joy in my job and each day as I work with the kids (I’m a teacher), I’m given opportunities to reach out to them, witnessing and sharing my love for the Lord. As soon as I start to feel “smart” or “able”, I fall apart and have no idea what to say. It’s in those moments I’m reminded to bring my focus back to the Lord. I love those kids and it breaks my heart to know at times, I have the wrong motives for doing what I do. It is my daily prayer that my reasons for serving be focused on God’s reasons for my being used by Him. It is both the area in which I serve and the area in which I work – to be with kids all day. Kids pick up on pride right away and I hope that even in those selfish moments, God will use me to reach them (and remind me when I have sinned or messed up in my heart).
I get the feeling most of the bloggers here are guys, but two of my favorite places to meet others and help are in the local pregnancy resource centers and libraries. Throughout the year, both need a lot of volunteers. I haven’t been spending as much time there as was in the past – and I blame myself entirely for that. Scared, young women come in needing help and we provide clothing for them and their coming babies, resources for adoption or caring for the newborns, classes, movies, and food/medical assistance. In the libraries, the summer reading programs are great fun for the kids and encourage learning… I loved it when I was younger and would participate every year (mom and dad couldn’t drag me away from my books).
No, I don’t consider myself one to look for the attention of leaders. I do struggle at times, though, when a pastor or leader does notice something and mentions a word of praise, to remember that God doesn’t “need” me in that area… I could be replaced. It is a humbling thought and one that reminds me yes, I have a purpose and God has a plan for my life and yes, He desires that we love our neighbor and love Him through our service and compassion for others (among other ways).
It is also a humbling thought that reminds me that to think about being humble or to think one is humble is not humble at all. So, I don’t think I’m humble. I pray the Lord forgives me for my weakness there, but I also know it has never been my desire to be “noticed” simply for the fact of being noticed or appreciated. Whatever you call it, those things or activities are something I enjoy doing every time they are a part of my day.
If the obedience we have toward our leaders brings obedience to the Lord, then I’m all for it. The danger comes when our obedience to leaders becomes too important or more important than our obedience of God. If serving outside the church is something one has the biblical or interested urge to do – and does not violate the Word, I think it should be encouraged without hesitation. It definitely is fun and a great opportunity to be real in a real world that is longing for a Real Savior who washes us clean of real sin with real grace and forgiveness.
There are a lot of good ladders to climb in the world. But don’t waste your time on that one. It’s not going anywhere and it doesn’t lead to anything.
I want to post on this topic because about a year ago I was fired as youth pastor from a rather charismatic church in the Portland area (that I shall not name).
The whole time I was at my former church the senior pastor (who had no elder board) pretty much made all the decisions in the church. Basically I was forced to step down because I wouldn’t go to all the “mandatory” unspoken functions, and do all the things he wanted me to do.
We were always made to feel guilty about those key words such as “disobedience”, not following “Gods will”, and “submission” to authority. Sometimes I am not sure if it is something I did wrong, or if I was being spiritually abused. My pastor at one point even told me I should get a new car so that I could change my image!!
Even though I don’t agree with everything on this blog, I do think that abuse of spiritual authority and complete obedience is a dangerous thing no matter who you are. I think it is scary when certain pastors demand complete obedience of their flock. That does not sound biblical to me…. Is it possible to be in unity and have different views. How many times have we seen “annointed” leaders claim something only to lead people to get hurt. Where do we draw the line between constructive criticism and just pure gossip?
To this date I am not sure what to make of my experience. I feel as though it really hurt me inside. Or am I just being a big baby like those who came against Moses in the bible?
Just some thoughts from a confused hurt guy!
Yes and no.
It’s important to periodically analyze our motives and our feelings… and that includes trying to decide if we are indeed being humble or not.
The fact is that we are sinners and our very thoughts can be a distraction, etc.. but I’m pretty sure, from what you’ve written, that struggling with a false sense of humility is not something you should be super concerned about. It sounds like you are very aware of your “servant” (in Christ) calling, and are doing a great job in fulfilling that mission! Be secure in God’s joy and blessing! It’s ok to have some pride in your work and your desire to be used by God. Just don’t let that pride become your motivation. (Which I don’t think you are doing.)
Condemnation is not good. Conviction is good — from the holy spirit — and is used to smack us upside the head and get us on the right track. When we’re convicted of something.. it’s the holy spirit speaking to us. But comdemnation is different. That’s just our silly emotions or fear talking. It’s not from the holy spirit, and is often a reason why we get depressed and withdraw from whatever we’re doing. That’s the opposite of conviction. Conviction should draw us our of ourselves and into Christ. Condemnation draws us into ourselves and away from Christ.
It sounds to me, from what you have written, that you are WELL on the right track and moving forward steadily in your walk with Christ. That’s fantastic! Don’t let self-condemnation drag you down. Stay at CBC if that’s what you feel is right for you now. Stay with your teaching job. Volunteer at the library, etc… and be secure and confident in WHO you are and the amazing person God created you to be. Find the JOY in your relationship with Jesus. I really think that’s so important for you. The joy of the LORD is our strength. I feel that joy is what will bring you through the struggle you’re having.
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Yes this would target the ones who truly need the reminder! Ha!
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Glad you are here Miss K!
Yes, and it’s scary in retrospect that we were all so open to allowing others to do our thinking for us! But they were very good at convincing us that they knew best.
You are right, blogging is a great way to find out what others think, find out what you really think and then speak it out and not get in trouble for it! Imagine that!
Nina said:
I guess it’s because we are so easily enamored that we open the door to a potentially abusive relationship. Plus most of us weren’t taught to know how to look for red flags. Now we know to stay aware of anything fishy because of what we went through. As we recover we have a better chance of not falling under the same spell and find we are satisfied with a relationship with the Lord without having a man/woman hold our hand the entire time.
Could it be it’s about growing up and having to stand on our own feet and becoming a mature Christian?
NoStatusQuo said:
We feel pain your NSQ – it all sounds so familiar – we have similar stories with different details.
Could it be that it’s time now not to have a mentor in your life? It’s interesting how, when the Lord is trying to change something in our lives he allows painful situations to do the rearranging. Pain may be the only thing that motivates us out of our comfort. It never looks pretty and it causes us insecurity. But this is the time we lean on Him. Thank God He never changes – he’s our one constant, as you know. Maybe He should be your mentor now.
I understand that iron sharpens iron and we all need each other as Christians, but I am not so sure I believe in the human mentor thing as a constant. Mentors come and go – they can be beneficial at the beginning of a learning experience, but once you’ve learned, you can be on your own. In fact we can venture into new things without a mentor at all.
I also want to mention that even though the Lord uses painful situations to move us beyond a certain point in our lives doesn’t necessarily excuse the bad behavior of those who have caused us pain. We can forgive them but we don’t need to go back for more of their bad behavior.
One of the great disillusionments for me was finding out that a church can operate in ‘the spirit of the world’ just as much as ‘the world’ does and sometimes even more so. You know the scripture in Romans that talks about living by the law of the spirit of life? I just figured because it’s the church it was operating by the law of the spirit of life. So when my eyes were open to this very thing you speak of, it was quite the blow. I guess it’s part of the painful experience of maturing as a Christian to realize that the world is in the church and we need to “not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” I knew I needed to do this, I just didn’t know I needed to do it inside the church system too.
We are all learning to be suspect of those who frown on our asking questions. We aren’t trying to be rebellious just because we need to know an answer. We live in America where freedom is supposed to reign and in our country it’s ok to question a leader and investigate if we have to.
Blogging is a great way to start voicing your opinion so have at ‘er!
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Recovering Clergy –
You are definitely onto something here. So sorry to hear of your situation and glad you are recovering. I’m sure the pain runs deep and no you aren’t being a baby – you should feel free to feel your feelings. You are actually going through a grieving process and, as you probably know, we grieve over various types of loss, not just death or divorce.
I have a good friend who has a knack for finding helpful books in a timely manner. The ones she gave us after we left our abusive situation were key in helping us process what we went through and heal. It also affirmed to us we weren’t alone and that every person has a different time frame in the healing process. If you are into reading you may want to check out :
Toxic Churches-Restoration from Spiritual Abuse / by Marc Dupont
Thanks everyone! I’m starting to understand where my disillusionment began and how far it has come, but as I start to realize the problems, I find myself in the Word so much more often, just to find the answers to the questions that were so readily answered by people (who, frankly, dealt with the same insecurities). I also ordered two books on the subject from Amazon. Love that website! I looked up the book you mentioned, Detox, and put it in my Amazon wishlist for a future read.
I have some great friends who have been there for me – as peers walking through similar challenges. I haven’t made myself available, though, because I’ve purposefully kept myself busy to avoid “thinking”, but one of my goals starting immediately is to build those friendships back up. It’s been a while.
Something someone told me once, which I’m confused about, is that if I’m happy, I’m too content to be on the world. They quoted John 18:36 “My kingdom does not belong to this world.” and 1 Peter 2:11 – “we are like foreigners and strangers in this world”. I know we’re not to be of the world, but is there something wrong with being content, happy to be alive, and fine where I am until I’m called HOME? Even in the times when I’ve struggled to smile, I know I can just talk with my Savior and my entire outlook changes. Sometimes I do become discouraged and “rigid”, but honestly, if I were to live like that all the time, I’d get depressed super fast. If we’re not to be joyful – and go around always wanting to be somewhere else (even if it is Heaven), then what appeal does it have to unbelievers who want to know that they can find joy in Someone, even on the earth? Sorry, it’s off-topic. I think, for a bit, I’ve been afraid to be truly happy or to be excited or to be in a consistent state of contentedness (is that a word?) – I am happy, I love life, I love my family, I love my job, I know peace in my relationship with the Lord at all times, and I don’t know if that’s wrong.
Any insights?
It is not wrong.
Question anyone who tells you it is.
There are seasons for everything. Reading Psalms shows you a huge range of emotions, from elation to despair. Paul said in Corinthians and he has learned to live with plenty, and learned to live with nothing. But either way he has learned to be content.
Also, the second fruit of the Spirit mentioned is “joy.” So enjoy this season of your life!!
Dear People, (Especially NoStatusQuo)
I am a Unitarian Universalist, and I think many of you, especially NSQ would feel very welcome in our churches. Despite what you may have heard, it is absolutely possible to be a UU Christian. I know many people that fall into that category.
Won’t you please consider learning a little bit about us?
Unfortunately, there is a great deal of misinformation out there about UU’s, much of it false and malicious. Please try to forget about what you have heard, and go see for yourself.
http://www.uua.org gives you the basics, as well as a congregation finder.
I am truly interested to know what your impressions are of our faith community.
UU’s don’t believe we have all the answers, and we’re not trying to proselytize. I am posting this comment because so many posts here seem to be written by spiritually hungry people. Either our message will speak to you or it won’t. All we ask is that you treat us with the same respect that we, as religious liberals, treat other people of faith.
Do have a look, won’t you?
All the best to one and all,
Daniel S.
Johnson City, TN