City Bible is honoring Dick Iverson's service to MFI in October, and they are hoping to buy him a new car.
From a commenter, here's the pitch.
Dear MFI Pastor, The October Annual Conference is going to be a great time together. This conference is a historical event for MFI as together we will honor Bro. Dick Iverson for his life and ministry to MFI as the founder. There will only be one founder as a founder is one who establishes, lays a foundation, originates something, starting it for the first time. Bro. Dick is the apostolic founder of MFI and a spiritual father too many. We will honor him at the Monday night banquet at the beginning of the conference. There will be videos of his ministry to MFI, leaders sharing, and all of us thanking Bro. Dick. We want to replace his old Cadillac with a new one (He is a GM man and Cads are his kind of car) and will do this at the banquet. Using his old Cadillac as a trade-in, we would need to raise about $44,000 by September 20. We have many churches and leaders who can raise this easily if we all step up. I want this to be from all of us, not just some of us. Please give whatever amount you can. Send the check to MFI, 9200 NE Fremont, Portland, Oregon 97220 and indicate “For Iverson gift”. When we have the $44,000 needed, we will let you know to stop the giving. Thank you for your prompt response to this. It will be a momentous time! We will also be giving Roxy a great gift for her 23 years of serving MFI, but Monday night will be focused on Bro. Dick as the founder. Personally, I have no problem with this. I won't be giving, but it seems like a nice idea. That said, if you want to know reason #82 why I'm going to hell. It's because when I read this letter, I immediately thought of this clip from Dumber and Dumber.
I do have a problem with this. Let him buy his own car. I know of a pastor who was or is in MFI that had a small church in a poor neighborhood and had a luxury car and lived in a big house (in an upper mid class neighborhood) on the churches dime. The church didn’t even have their own or rent their own property. This particular pastor would adamantly preach on a weekly basis about how the church NEEDED to give their tithe above and beyond the 10 percent. Oh yea and on top of the church paying for his car and home he and his wife also we paid salaries.
Now what does this have to do with Dick getting a new car? My point is basically about having the church pay for someone else’s luxuries. I’m sure there is someone in that church that could really use the help.
Fair point.
Here’s why it doesn’t bother me. 1) Dick Iverson never really preached the prosperity gospel. 2) It’s the church buying him a car. I don’t think he’s asking for it. 3) I don’t see anything wrong with trying to honor someone who has worked a long time with a large gift. 4) They’re just asking for donations through a letter. There isn’t really a lot of pressure to give. If you don’t want to give Dick a car, just throw the letter away.
Look, would it be nice if they honored Dick by giving the car to someone more needy. Yeah. But I have very low expectations for City Bible Church. They don’t really give to the needy. They don’t make sacrifices, they expect God to give them whatever they want.
So on the list of offensive behavior, this is low for me. But hey, as always, I could be wrong.
This is actually the 2nd Caddy they are getting him. I remember the first one was like 8-10 years ago- The pastor of the church I used to go to worshipped Dick. While at an MFI function, he took a church check, marked it “missions” on the stub memo so no one would know at the church what he did, and wrote out a thousand dollars for the car. How do we know? We got a DVD with the presentation and our church name along with many others on the back cover. Surprise! Since when does Dick Iverson, a very well to do man, qualify as Missions?
This is a good old boys network with absolutely no accountability. Pardon me while I barf.
So does this post mean that MFI pastors not only read this blog, but contribute to it? I hope so *smile* !!
Sorry Catalyst. I do have a problem with it as well. Once again it sets up that
“special” mentality that we are to give to the rich or is it the ‘annointed.’ It will just set a precedent to give to other pastors in the future. Yes of course he worked hard but won’t his real treasure come from the Father in heaven. And when is it ever enough? If he needs a new car than why not keep raising more money and give him his own private plane. That worked for Benny Hinn and others.
If they won’t have integrity than its up to us as believers and givers to have it and be willing to ask these questions, which is what is going on here. When is it ever enough and what will totally ‘honor’ him and now apparantly her as well.
The church that is quote giving it to him is made up of many members, most who are not getting big salaries who are pressured or guilted into giving on something like this even in a letter. Their money flow comes from those people though I know this is a new concept to most.
Case in point the Capital girls are living it up on a trip to Maui this week –saying how good life is on their twitter. Think that will bless all their member here struggling to make ends meet in an area that has been hit hard by foreclosures. Aahh, yes they need to honored?!
I guess I am not up to speed on the latest news of Bubble Kingdom–wasn’t MFI unhappy with KRI’s marriage–now they are investing in a very expensive gift? Is this just illogic logic?
I personally think that Dick Iverson is an awesome man of God who has spoken great things into my life and ministry. The problem I have with this request is that I know the mentality of many other MFI pastors. For those who may not know, MFI membership is made up of senior pastors and some support pastors, not churches. Most of these pastors feel that every MFI expense is to be borne by their local church without question – so this proposed gift is really being paid for by the local churches – not the pastors themselves. Even if the church is struggling, most will make a substantial contribution towards Dick’s Caddy because they are expected to do as Frank asks or they will be made to feel like they are not living up to what is expected of a”son of the house.”
We just received a prayer request for a Hatian MFI pastor who has suffered grave brain damage and is struggling for life in a hospital in Alberta. Of course, we are all praying for the Lord to heal him. He and his wife do not have insurance so part of the prayer request was for funds to help with medical expenses. I wonder how far $44,000 would go towards retiring that debt. I think that even Dick would feel good about a gift of this size being made in his honor to this cause as opposed to a new ride.
Ok, LOL to the dumb and dummer clip. Maybe Frank’s staff should personally buy Dick that 10 gallon hat to go with his Cad! Ha!
Maybe the reason Frank feels the need to give Dick a Cadillac is two-fold (Frank probably has TEN bullet points on why it needs to be done):
1) He feels guilty because _________________________________.
2) All the gifts given to honor Dick over the years led up to this. There are only so many diamond rings, expensive suits and vacations you can give a pastor over the years.
Anyway, I need to chime in that this over-the-top present hits a nerve with me as well. Probably triggered by having to give gifts and adulation to KGW and watch him RECEIVE it ALL (never once did he say no let’s give it to missions or the homesless instead) when all that money and energy we spent could have been given to our own parent who actually did care for me and my family. Freeatlast and I (and our families) were constantly, year after year, being hit up to give KGW a gift, both on his birthday and Christmas, and each gift had to top the next. There was a formal offering where we were expected to be examples as leaders and trapse up to the altar to place our money in the bucket while the church family followed suit so we could send the whole Wilde fam to Hawaii or wherever. And THEN the staff too had to give a separate gift like a really expensive suit or whatnot. Like Southsound said it isn’t optional as leaders to give to MFI, and the same holds true within the MFI leader’s church when it’s time to poney up for the yearly gift. And if those in the congregation wanted their pastor to know they loved him, they felt the surge to give as well, whether they had the extra money or not. Gives a whole new meaning to the word sacrifice on the altar. What altar would THAT be?
This honoring the top leader thing is dogma in MFI. Dick probably started the whole thing in his foundational teachings. Whatever his original intent was for honoring the leader, it’s way out of balance now. Sure we should appreciate those who work in our midst but why not send them one of those pastor cards you can buy at the Family Christian Book Store (WITH NO MONEY IN IT IF THE PASTOR FAMILY IS IN A HIGHER INCOME BRACKET THAN YOU ARE)? WHY are they so important that we have to treat them like kings?? Kings usually have the best of everything and don’t really need all those gifts.
My vote is give all that energy and money to honor your own fathers and mothers instead of some guy who REALLY doesn’t care that much what happens to you in the long run. And like Southsound said, if you feel compelled to give a leader a retirement gift why not give to a real need in his/her honor?
Just out of curiosity, Tracy’s birthday is July 26th and she’s been in Hawaii with her sister at least since the 25th. Hmmmmmm. Maybe Freeatlast is accurate in that point on precedence. Perhaps the next gen has given hefty gifts to the kids now too.
I think Frank should pull an Oral Roberts and tell everyone that God is going to strike him down unless they get Dick a Caddy.
In fact, I do have some hefty student loans that I need taken care of… hmmmmm….
Just in case some of the readers were interested when I brought up the pastor who was struggling with such grave illness, here is a letter from Dana Adams that gives the details. Regardless of our attitude twoards MFI, I would hope that we could all lift Prit and his wife up in this great time of need. They are faithful servants of our Lord and Savior.
Thanks for sharing that Southsound – we’ll be praying for that brother’s life, health and that the Lord will send financial help from everywhere. If this is a letter sent to all the MFI members perhaps they will feel led to give to this first before they give to Dick’s cadillac since this is happening NOW and Frank’s ‘need’ has until October.
[Comment ID #37952 Will Be Quoted Here]
Somehow I missed seeing your comment yesterday BeenThere!
Case in point to what I was saying about the gifts gettng a progressively better – this new gift then is an upgrade. Unbelieveable.
What’s just as unbelieveable is your former pastor actually labeled the check Missions!
He used to give huge offerings to MFI stuff, especially Dick & Wendell. It worked for him though. While he used the money we gave in tithes and offererings he was setting himself up for the future. When he was asked to resign because it was discoveredthat he was abusing the staff and lying to the elders, Wendell used his on staff lawyer to try threaten to sue them. Dick and Wendell set him up with another church in the same town. Political garbage. Dick told the elders that if he hadn’t slept with somone or stolen money then they shouldn’t have asked him to step down. After all said Dick- the people are coming to church for him and his wife. The sad part was– Dick was right. MFI builds super star pastors and then uses their network to cover up abuse, and protect the senior pastor. No regard whatsoever for the local church.
Laying aside the matter of whether the car should be bought for him or not…
Do we really want an 80-year-old man driving a “boat” around the city streets??
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I thought that old people preferred Buick, not Cadillac.
It is fitting that Dick Iverson should receive a Cadillac from MFI people. I mean in these economic hard time for “regular families”, what could say elitism, extravagance, arrogant fat-catism and all-they-want-is-your-money than a 14 mile per gallon, 40 grand sled? How bout a box of cuban cigars in the front seat?
[Comment ID #37965 Will Be Quoted Here]Anna, you are always a step or two ahead of me it seems! I was thinking the same thing, why give an 80 year old man with recent heart surgery a powerful new car? I’m just bitter and jealous….new house, new wife, and now a new car too!…..How can a person keep up??? It’s because I’m behind on my tithes, I just know it!
Anna, I just spent the weekend with Dick Iverson’s grandson, and found out that they all still read the blog. Heh.
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So… did he say what they thought about anything we’ve said? Like, do they just think we are bitter and unforgiving bcz we still blog or do they actually read and consider?
To be fair, his grandson doesn’t read the blog. Because his grandson doesn’t particularly care. But I get the impression that the rest of the MFI folks still think we’re bitter and angry.
Look, it’s easier for them to think of us as angry and bitter, than to admit that perhaps we have a point. Admitting that we’re right would require them to question their entire life’s work and beliefs. And they’re not about to do that.
I've been an MFI support pastor for several years. I'm not bitter or angry – in fact, I cherish some of the great teachings I've received under some of MFI's "legend" preachers. But I will not be renewing my membership come this October because I don't feel I can still support a lot of the teaching. What I have discovered is that many of the members, including my own senior pastor, suffer from hubris. Yes, that is pride to such an extent that they feel they have to demean others who dare to disagree with them. I am still under my senior pastor because God has not yet said to move – and we have a ministry that is helping bring the hurting to Christ. I do not feel anger towards the senior pastor I serve under – but I pray for him to again return to his first love. He is a good man who loves the Lord. But at the present time, he feels he has an entitlement from the Lord for more than a double blessing. He and one of his elect lavish expensive dinners and lunches on new or "favored" people at church expense. In a small church where quite a few are unemployed, this is not a wise way to spend God's funds. The senior pastor buys expensive electronic toys at church expense so he can keep up with other MFI pastors. He often doesn't know how to use them so he gives them to his elders to keep them on his side. He has convinced the board to allow him to spend thousands of dollars without board approval, but the board is now comprised of relatives and employees, so it really woundn't matter. He feels perfectly OK with dismissing those from the board who would keep him in check. It pains me to see the Lord's resources spent in this manner. Unfortunately, this is the kind of mentality taught and encouraged at MFI. All that said, his attitude and actions are NOT bigger than God and His purposes. Like David serving under Saul, I will continue to serve under this pastor in the ministry the Lord has given me until such time as the Lord moves me to another church.
First I”m glad they are reading this as many churches that are toxic and have members who escape or rather ‘get out’ ‘feel led to leave’ or say ‘the grace has lifted so now I can escape’ have been setting up blogs to help their ex members.
Read away boys and if even a shaft a light gets in that maybe you are not as entitled as you think you are and will be accountable to this madness you call ‘blessings from God’ than so be it. But we are really trying to help the people still stuck inside the vortex that you helped create. They are the ones we are trying to help shake up out of their slumber to say -there is no question you cannot ask, nor should ask and if Paul was around he would be yelling it at them to question everything. Oh yes Paul’s words are still around but if you never get around to hearing them it makes it a little hard.
Southsound,
So glad you are here and by reading this blog – go back into the archives sometime and you will see a pattern here throughout the entire MFI operation.
It may lead you to really start asking – how will it get better when all have yes men on their boards supporting this spoiled brat lifestyle. The Cadillac giving is just one example of it.
Here’s something to share from a survivor that took 5 years to get the effects of this world off of me and am not alone, the sooner you get out the sooner you will not be supporting their world of elitism that is detrimental to the body of Christ.
You don’t know it yet, but part of the MFI speak is “I am waiting on God to move me” when once your eyes are truly opened you can’t run out of their fast enough!
We have helped tons of people through this process and the first stage is ‘gee something is wrong with this type of Christianity. Our Senior pastor and his family – i.e. kids, spouses are getting everything as in a very lush lifestyle, w/ little perks constantly like : i pads, iphones, trips to Maui all at our expense. No one else is being blessed like this not even staff members close to them. We have people hurting and no one cares! What’s wrong with this picture? And more than that they keep asking for money from the very people who are giving.
Stage 2 is I’m done giving to it and you realize they really, really don’t care about their people. Just try bringing a need or concern directly to your Pastor about someone you see should be helped and the attitude you might get even subtly is they deserve it, their kids are having problems or their family is because ‘they did something wrong.’ etc. Or others in the community are not a part of our fellowship so why help. Right?
Mainly by staying there you are actually voting YES! to all they do and say and how they spend their money with your body in the pew. There are weaker brothers who are watching you right now – believe me and they are hoping and praying you effect change and get him to truly be a pastor and care about their family. The problem is you probably can’t. You are powerless there.
Everyone is expendable – everyone on staff and everyone in the congregation. The show must go on. Lifestyles are in the balance if anything there changes including padding the board with total yes men! I bet if you ask anyone from any of these churches you would find that to be the case. Anyone who dares asks questions is soon found to have a office near the gymnasium that used to be a broom closet! Than when the pain gets too great they are forced to leave and quit with no compensation, retirement etc. They are termed as bitter and shunned however subtly. *Examples needed here!
So please really ask God what to do and let him open your eyes. The clock is ticking and every day you stay there is one more you will regret of time wasted on the Church that does Nothing! but give one family – the first family there a good lifestyle. Am I right! Why do you think there is such a pattern of abuse here listed daily? We all had to make a choice to get off the ship and start voting with our feet. I’ll pray for you to see it –you are actually choosing to support this abuse by staying there.
This may sound harsh to you but you were led here for a purpose to open your eyes and when you are under their system of abuse, we all said ‘ I am waiting on the Lord to move me.’ Ok How would that sound? This could be your phone call right here:
“The 9th Ward is flooding- you are standing on the bridge – get your family out of there before its too late.’!
[Comment ID #37973 Will Be Quoted Here]
Ah yes, thanks for that reminder and you have a point there! Uncovered being new to the blog thought it could be possible that we would make a difference to the ‘powers that be’ that may read…
BTW, welcome to the blog Uncovered! Your voice counts and we’re really glad you decided to jump in!
[Comment ID #37975 Will Be Quoted Here]
Emphasis on the vortex you helped to create! ha!
The light may never come on for the big dogs but it can come on for the individuals within their sphere. It happened to us!
Once the light came on and we realized WE DON’T HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THIS ANYMORE as a Christian and a free American, we simply took off our religious garb and walked out the door.
5 years later we’re still glad we made the decision to jump off the cult-like ship! we’ve been getting the layers off and new freedom has come with the shedding of each layer. We’ve been growing up and taking responsibility for our own faith.
When you are a grown up and you make your own decisions, you no longer have to look to your parents to tell you what to do. You may honor their input but you have to make the choices yourself. So essentially, these controlling authoritaian type pastors who feel they have such great influence over those ‘under’ them are powerless to hold them back and/or down.
Psalm 62:11 God has spoken once,Twice I have heard this: That power belongs to God.
I agree. By staying you simply encourage their behavior. Get free. There is a horribly selfish spirit surrounding these folks.
I always wonder what the appeal of MFI churches is to people who are, in say, youth pastor positions? I’ve seen my fair share of pastors come and go, and have always wondered if they see the higher-ups as holding a position that they could someday obtain through hard work and obedience. That this is some type of aspiration— they are lured by the nice cars and posh lifestyle that some of these guys possess (tax free!).
However, down the road they (the noobs) are either given the boot for questioning; pushed out of the way to make room for an up-and-comer (i.e. friend of the church/higher profile character); or leave because they realize that the church’s version of the American Dream isn’t something they will even obtain–they just aren’t in the club! Well, like George Carlin said: “It’s called the American Dream because you’ve got to be asleep to believe it.”
Better to wake up sooner than never I guess! I did.
matricks: Or like Wendell Smith, they go off to start their own mega church. I think Wendell was called for a long time to be a church planter, but he had to wait for “The Blessing” from Dick.
I once asked Wendell if he was going to join the throngs going out and starting churches.. he said NO … God had called him to this church (CBC) and that was where he was staying put..
Then Dick upstaged him with Frankie and Wendell split the sheets and headed north..
Then Frankie changes his church name to include “city” like Wendell…
Then Frankie starts “satellite” churches in the area like Wendell…
Me thinks there was ALWAYS a major competition between the two..
I read with interest ….all your comments about CBC. I attended for 5 years during 1971-1976 when Dick Iverson pastored. I must say that those were some of the best church years ever. When I was in a serious accident and in the hospital, the elders from this church came to me and asked to help me in any way they could. Mind you I was just a single, young girl, that was NOT a big tither to their church and they were there to help ! Dick was such a “father” to me during that time and my entire life was changed. I have NO bad memories there like most of these posts but then I didn’t attempt to get into the church polictics either ! I look back to many spiritual foundations that were established there that still guide my life today at age 60!!
Chatty Susy, I can see how if you had no conflicting issues with them how it could’ve been a much better experience for you, and praise God for it! I was there those years, and it did seem more innocent, especially my years at PBC, I’ve got great memories from there. That is what kept me so confused for so long after I left, because I also received a great foundation/heritage there in a lot of ways, great teaching, great praise, great guest speakers, excitement, programs galore for everybody.
But along with the blessing was a whole lot of junk underneath and behind the scenes, which I now realize to be spiritual arrogance and abuse. The top heavy authority has always been there, and lots of people even that far back, felt the weight of it, that you dare not think for yourself and speak up in any kind of disagreement, because this is the move of God and the authority of God. We needed to get permission to make life decisions and even many smaller ones. You dare not leave the will of God, aka “the spiritul covering” (meaning this church) or bad things will happen to you;
Big pushes for money and pressure for all to make large pledges. The big one I think toward the late 70′s was $3000 per head of house over and above your tithe, but even before that every year they used pledges as a way to get more than just the tithe. Things like that have been there from the earliest days, some only in seed form, some by the 70′s already starting to blossom their ugly head fully out.
The 1970′s do seem to have been “good” years at BT. Very family oriented church, you felt like you knew everybody…. Dick was still controlling… remember the “dress code” he would put in the bulletin now and again.. EXPECTING women to wear dresses… There was still a LOT of good Bible teaching from the “pulpit” … emphasis on family and loving God.
But then mid 1980s the emphasis switched from people to program. People went to the wayside and left to languish…. Yes, there was still some good teaching from the Bible in there. Dick ALWAYS preached that worship was a key to “entering in.” And BT used to have good worship. Then he brought in Howard to be the “chief musician.” Howard’s style was one of dragging people at his beat, only one beat, only one style of music. Gone were the days of leading people to the feet of Jesus in worship. It was like a bad drag race with Howard and Debbie at the helm. Kind of a horse and pony show. And BT stayed on the spiral down… Gone was the emphasis on family and people. Gone was the sweet worship at the feet of Jesus and being drawn into God’s presence. Bigger push and beg/demand for dollars to build the kindgom of Bible Temple. Bigger push to blindly accept the demands and play along.
Sad spiral downward with a lot of people left on the roadside to bleed and languish.
I almost forgot the “women should wear dresses” (guess cuz I’m a man). Don’t forget “no gum chewing in the sanctuary”, one of Sis. Edie’s pet peeves. That one had me cracking up
living life: BT also went political in the 80′s. The origin of the Oregon Family Council, the rise of conservatism in national politics, and the mirror movement in the church.
Yes, I do remember the “wear dresses” thing…but I had been raised that way in AG denom. so didn’t seem odd to me. I think it was 1986 probably before I ever wore blue jeans to a church…no big for me!
As far as the pledges go….we moved away from there before the $3,000 per fam. thing started…but we heard all about it. Bottom line….leadership can only “rule” over you to the exstent you allow them to. BT seemed mild in that de”gree in comparison to another church we “fell” into after we moved away from Portland!!!! OMG …it began as “discipleship” movement and then went into total legalis. I fault ourselves for being gullible to fall into that trap of “obeying” when the word of God showed us differently. We had also been taught differently at BT ! We finally saw the light and left there but not without it affecting us deeply. I think it took us about 2 yrs to feel “spiritually healthy” after THAT place!! To this day if we even “smell” legalism we would be gone !!
I truly believe that “the truth (God’s word) will set you free,” and we believe that means it will set you free from “mans tradition” and anythng coming from the pulpit that dosen’t match up !! But…..so many “simple sheep” take everything coming from the pulpit as gospel truth and don’t search out the word for themselves and KNOW what it says. I blame people of God, like ouselves too, who allow themselves to go along with thing that aren’t biblical and continue to stay in a place they feel twists the word of God. Grant it new christians can be duped….but shame on us that have known the truth and don’t walk in it.
As far as giving tithes and above tithes and offerings….we pray ourselves and ask the Lord what we should give….and we have no guilt or allow anyone to guilt us into giving. Why do people pledge and give when and then complain about “Frank” taking all their money? If people quit succumbing to that pressure….and leadership realised it didn’t work…then they wouldn’t keep doing it ! Wake up folks !!
Bottom line, having grown up in AG churches all our lives and coming to BT in 1971 and being involved in powerful pre prayer and after church prayr and “Singspirations” until 10:00 pm….were awesome growing times for us. Bro. Dick required all us PBC’rs to attend Bill Gothards “Basic Youth Conflicts” and that was a godsend to my then fiance who had walked away from the Lord as a youth and missed a whole lot of that teaching. I think we attended 4 years. Also the emphasis on the family during those years proved invaluable to us, my siblings, now my adult children and grandchildren !!! We look back to so many Godly principles we learned there that we still use daily and ones we NEVER did learn from our godly parents all those years in church prior to that time period!!
WE have absolutely NO regrets from those 5 awesome years and we can’t say that about a lot of churches we have experienced since then !!
WE attended PBC with Frank, Wendall, and all the rest you mention and have nothing but respect for them. Agree with all their methods and style of leading….no! But still respect them for being willing vessels.
Blessings to you all!
Blessings to you too Suzy and thanks for the positive comments. I tend to get negative on this stuff, but you bring back some good memories too, and sounds like we probably were in some of the same classes. Holy Kryptonite we wouldn`t recognize each other now! -Jay L.
The only thing we both had problems with there was the legalism of Bro Stricker and Sister Steele with PBC students. We were both in mid 20′s, both working full time and attending PBC part time, not kids in the dorm….and didn’t need to have them dictate what day we could “date” and how many hours the date could last!!! My boyfriend/husband now….had been a miitary sergeant and responsile for 25 men and then to PBC… and just coming back to the Lord !! He was a bit unprepared for all the PBC childish rules !! It is humorous now but wasn’t at that time!!
My car broke down, middle of icy winter, and my boyfriend, now my husband, asked if he could take me home, 15 miles away and made the mistake of asking the Dean for permission. (so we wouldnt be violating any rules) He was told by the Dean that he couldn’t drive me home, no bus going there, and no one else willing to take me…..cuz it would be considered a date; going off campus with member of the opposite sex!!!! Needless to say….I had to violate my concious, disobey that rule, walk a block or two down the street and he picked me up and delivered me home. The Dean certainly didn’t volunteer to get me home either!!
But heck, I loved it so much during those days that I would drive 10 miles each way during my lunch hour just to be able to attend college service during the mid week and back to work again !!! Our whole social life was built around that church and we were in church most all of Sunday, Weds and sometimes a social event in addiition!! I miss that sometimes these days with churches so impersonal and one service per week usually. Those were the days that BT was only 500 people too on Glisan !!
We made many dear friends there that we still stay in touch with today and now all our families are grown up and we are all grandparents !! I must say that many of those people we attended PBC with have raised some wonderful familes who are still serving God today !! Great fruit!!
Jay we probably did attend at the same time at PBC and would probobly recognise each other…..but my real name is incognito at this time ….
I had almost all good memories from PBC. Like you was not in the dorms so maybe missed a lot of scrutiny. I kept my distance from the Steele”s (they both could slice and dice you) except for Butch. He treated me great. The only military guy I remember was the one who hooked up with Carol Wiley with a very sad ending (I know that wasn’t you)
But I would’ve never asked the dean for permission for a mixed gender car ride. What were you thinking? LOL
That prayer room was cool. I brought my unsaved almost anti-christ brother in there one time and he was deeply moved
We somehow thought that due to the fact that mixed gender rides were against the rules and we didn’t want to get busted….we would go explain and they would understand !!!NOT!! It was hilarious in some ways because I lived “off campus” and my boyfriend came quite often to visit but they had no idea about that…..but he couldn’t drive me home legally !!
Yes, second time my boyfriend was in the prayer room, I let the men know he had never been filled with the holy spirit. They laid hands on him and he was immediately filled to overflowing!! Awesome days…during Jesus Movement all.
I did disagree, however with people having to get up in front of the prayer room and ask forgivenes for their “bad sins” like adultery !!! They owed no one an apology but the Lord. I so disagree with that method…to this day.
Blessings. It was usually pregnant girls and they were not allowed to get married in the “real sanctuary.” as if it was more holy than the other rooms! LOL
That is no different than mormon couples not being allowed to be married in the Temple.
Sister Edie insisted that a pregnant teenager wear a “pink” wedding dress because she wasn’t a virgin anymore. The bright side for this humiliated girl is that she will have great company in heaven (assuming she wasn’t stigmatized from her faith) with everybody else wearing pink angelic gowns for the same reason–we all have sinned. Maybe it is easier for God to proclaim that our sins are washed white as snow then it is for the Church to do the same. It is like they have created a caste society–those who did it and those who waited.
I wonder how many elders’ children have fornicated and how they dealt with that?
And it was ALWAYS ONLY the female had to confess her sin in front of the entire church.. never the sperm donor
DE TOX…I think it is rediculous for Mormons to not be allowed to get married in the temple too!1
As far as pink dresses for the pregnant ones…how sad is that? One sin is no different in God’s eyes than another….so what color dress should the liars wear??? See how rediculous that thinking can get? I think part of that “old line” thinking smells very punitive rather than God’s grace and forgiveness. Of course the other part was shaming and punishing the guys too by making “fallen” PBC teachers confess in front of the prayer room too. I have been to funerals that were more cheery than some of those prayer room “in front of the church family” events !! How about dealing with those things in the pastor our counselors office and allow repentance and forgiveness to be a private matter….rather than “blaming and shaming” God’s kids??? I sooo agree….that we have “all sinned and fallen short”. “let he that is without sin…..cast the first stone !!”
I did witness some of the sperm donors having to ask forgivenss to the church, but only if they were someone who had a position, such as the PBC teacher.
We were in a differentf church, not BT….where an elder had to “step down” and no longer could be an elder cuz his daughter got pregnant and so their kids were “out of order” and thus according to the church, the dad was “disqualified” as an elder!!! What a shame….she was just one that got “caught” with a baby and many more that didnt.
Is it any wonder so many wounded ones are out there floundering after these kinds of actions in the church?
I think remembering these events allows us all to work harder at giving out more grace to the wounded and be more willing to be there to help them pick up the pieces and “run again” in their walk with God. Because as Chuck Girard so aptly sang…”don’t shoot the wounded…some day you might be one !!
I forgot about those 2nd class citizen weddings. Anybody that was getting remarried after they were divorced couldn’t get married in the main sanctuary either, but maybe could in the prayer room. And they wouldn’t put it in the bulletin, so it didn’t give the impression they were in favor of it. God forbid that should ever happen. The exact opposite of the Father’s heart to make a big celebration for the prodigal son with all the trimmings, no matter what he did in the past or what “bad image” it might convey.
Gosh they were messed up and didn’t realize it.
I always thought it was ironic how so many Christian kids would “make out” and the very first time BAM the girl gets pregnant. Why? More then likely one thing led to another and they went all the way. Except it probably wasn’t premeditated else they would have had “protection”. So, they “accidentally” went all the way, the girl gets pregnant (she carries the child–good news) but the Church makes sure that she will always carry the scarlet letter on her and his forehead. After all, won’t we always refer to the child as born out of wedlock? Hardly any forgiveness there. I feel the punishment is more the travesty then the sin. It would “smell” better if false prophets were punished (all those wild presbytery fortune tellers), stealing, lying, cheating etc. Level the playing field that is all I am asking for.
Hear ya loud and clear Stephen
Uh…yeah…this is because even after becoming pregnant they still are afraid to admit they’ve been screwing around for months or years. They think it will go over better if they act like “oops, how did that happen? I swear it was the first time”.
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Sometimes I used to think…there was more sex going on in my high school youth group then my actual public high school. Probably a pretty even split.
Forgive my ignorance of High Schoolers I was the only one in my class…
So, did Brother Dick get a new car? Or did this blog scare MFI off?
stephen… oh yes.. a nice red caddy..
the letter said Mrs. Iverson would also receive a gift for her 23 years of service.. what did she get?
It always bugs me that people get a nice wage for doing their job, yet people feel the need to give them bonuses for just doing their job.. and many people expect/demand extra for just doing their job.
Mrs. Iverson #1 or #2? A red caddy–like red in a power color? Maybe Lanny Hubbard’s old pristine Volkswagon Beetle might have been more appropriate. Not entirely sure why glitz and glamor is more becoming the man then a more humble vehicle–a Yugo or Hyundai? Maybe a used caddy? I think Brother Dick ran a used car lot back in the day…
#2, Roxy, the “child bride”
I know, I was just being bad.
Yes, I remember Roxy from the old days at BT, good thing no one tried sharing THAT revelation in Presbytery that one day Roxy would be KRI’s bride. Wow, that would have been one brave prophet. “Pastor Dick, in the future I see you driving a candy red Caddy the day that you retire, thus sayeth the Lord.”
Royce Iverson (what is he up to?) and a bunch of us went to a Revival Tent meeting that had sawdust on the floor and a preacher who ran round and round the tent shouting. After the main show he called Royce up for prophecy and proclaimed that Royce would be ministering to the dark skinned people across the seas (isn’t Royce a missionary now?)–which probably accounts for 80% of the worlds population. It would be a hoot if he was right after all… We got reprimanded the next day for busting a gut laughing during the revival service–believe me we WERE REVIVED! We never did find any church with people running on the backs of the pews or swinging from the chandeliers. We really took our Pentecostal studies seriously in the old days of PBC.
I think Jesus being humble, drove a donkey on purpose. And yeah those Iverson’s had an RV lot once upon a time and Morrie was a car wholesaler