Not sure how many of you have seen this story, but for the last several years a church in Ohio has been protesting outside a nearby stripclub. The church, New Beginning Ministries, stands outside the club with signs. They also videotape guys going into the club and post their license plate numbers online. At some point, the strippers had enough and they staged their own protest outside of New Beginnings Ministry, complete with signs and bikinis.
I was all set to write some snarky comment about how this probably would increase attendance at church or about how much Jesus loves glitter. But then I watched this video of the two women protesting outside, and I was like, "Ouch." Because, in theory it sounds funny and odd. But in reality, let's be honest, these women need real help. Girls don't get into stripping because they have great homes lives. These clubs aren't filled with Harvard grads and Doctors. Your typical stripper didn't grow up in a warm household with a father who loved her unconditionally. These girls are desperate. And they're likely stripping because it's the only way they can make decent money. And they're probably supporting a drug habit as well.
So why is the church harrassing these girls. Is this really what Christ had in mind when he said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". The church folks shouldn't be protesting outside the club. They should be reaching out to these girls. How many times do you think those girls have been invited over to someone's house for dinner. Or how many times has someone offered to babysit their kids or buy them groceries. You want to stop these girls from selling their bodies, then how about actually helping them find a way out of the situation they are in. Sharing God's grace is going to influence these ladies a lot more than condeming them.
But condemnation is easy. And compassion is hard. So, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the church took the easy road.
my only comment is that those are the worst looking strippers I’ve ever seen…yeesh.
[Comment ID #38034 Will Be Quoted Here]
I wish I could say the same. Unfortunately, I grew up in Portland, Oregon. Meth capitol of America.
Kinda reminds me of attending anti-abortion clinic sit-ins in the 80′s. We were all so filled with God’s wrath that any ill conceived idea received God’s blessing, after all weren’t we preventing the killing of the unborn? All my “compassionate” church friends let their “evil” side reign supreme at the sit-ins. I don’t believe abortion is right but neither do I believe the end justified the means of the Churches response. It furthered soured my perspective on the church.
Exactly!! Strippers, porn stars, prostitutes these are the women we should be fighting for, not shunning away. Imagine if members of this church were cooking dinners, giving out clothes, and paying essential utility bills instead of this protesting nonsense. I bet you at least 1 or 2 of the strippers would start attending their church and eventually give their lives to Christ. WHY OH WHY are some Christians so ignorant and backwards?? Stripping is wrong for those who are servants of God because they know better. But you can’t tell someone who’s never given their life to Jesus that they are living in sin. They don’t even know what the hell sin is! This is why I will never give up in my quest to represent Christ in a manner that swims upstream of Christian culture today. Thanks Justin for reminding me why I’m doing what I do. (By the way, $50 bucks that pastor in the video has visited the strip club before…it’s like the pastor who obsessive over stopping gays, only to find out they are a closet gay. I find that Christians often fight the “sins†that they most struggle with.)
[Comment ID #38038 Will Be Quoted Here]
You mean something about trying to look around the log in my own eye so I can see the mote in your own eye? Seems like when the Bimbo Eruptions were taking place in our nostalgic presidential history that many of the vocal self righteous critics were exposed for their own hypocrisy. God Bless you Pastor Haggert.
Why does the stripper know more about our sinful natures than the pastor?
I hate Christians
Christians (specifically charismatic, I think) see something that they deem as “sin” and feel it gives them the right to treat the “sinner” however they want; despite the fact that their actions are completely contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
Why must they throw stones…and worse yet…do it in Jesus’ name?
Christian’s love Jesus when they want to see a miracle or even when they simply need to bless their food or want nice weather for the church picnic…but when it comes to dealing with people who are different than them they run straight to the Old Testament with fire and brimstone.
Where is the Grace that Christ preached? Where is the love? Where is the acceptance?
Sadly…it’s not found in many churches these days.
I guess my all time favorite approach to the poor happened when I overheard a homeless person ask for help on the street. The response to him was, “I am sorry, I already gave at my church.”
[Comment ID #38043 Will Be Quoted Here]
Notable exception would be Benny Perez (charismatic pastor, son in law to Wendell Smith) with his Hookers for Jesus ministry in Vegas.
They take the women in, help ‘em out, and love on ‘em.
Matthew Barnett with the Dream Center in the LA ghetto is another pretty good example, stopping trafficking of women and helping homeless to actually LIVE in church owned buildings.
If the rest of the charismatic world would get on that bus, then we’d really be going somewhere.
(hillsong is doing pretty good with the I heart stuff, at least in trying to make people aware. And Joel Houston and Carl Lentz – another Judah friend – are literally starting Hillsong NYC on the streets and in home meetings.)
REFORMER “Exactly!! Strippers, porn stars, prostitutes these are the women we should be fighting for, not shunning away. Imagine if members of this church were cooking dinners, giving out clothes, and paying essential utility bills instead of this protesting nonsense. I bet you at least 1 or 2 of the strippers would start attending their church and eventually give their lives to Christ. ”
RTA:
Dunfee said it’s not that simple. He said he consistently offers the women help, a chance at redemption.
“I tell them, ‘I will put a roof over your heads, and your bills will be paid, and your children’s bellies will be full,’” he said. Yet they don’t come inside.
You are so quick to judge the church for our sins and so quick to excuse away the worlds.
[Comment ID #38050 Will Be Quoted Here]
Well I can only speak to the ones I’ve been to, and trust me the Dream Center is a lot more hype then reality. And yes, they are one of the groups that make an appearance in downtown LA along skid row and give out food and clothing, and yes they do provide temporary housing to a lot of people without. I don’t want to downplay their service to the community at all, because they do a lot of good. But they are also some of the biggest money grabbers I’ve ever seen. In one service I went to they asked for money 5 different times. It was nuts. And their impact on the LA community is not as big as they would like outsiders to believe. There are many non-Christian groups that don’t seek money from tithers that are able to do just as much as Dream Center. My problem with it all is that these churches don’t just give and go home. They give and tell everyone within earshot how much they are giving. They make sure cameras are around and people are told just exactly what they are doing. I just wish they could do all the charitable stuff without so much money from church goers and didn’t broadcast from the rooftops all that they are doing.
[Comment ID #38076 Will Be Quoted Here]
What’s “RTA”?
You’re right, it’s not that simple. You answered your own critique with this one.
So telling strippers who don’t know Christ to stop stripping in the name of Christ is a good way to stand up for all that is holy and righteous in this world huh?
[Comment ID #38137 Will Be Quoted Here]
Good things to think about!
I’ve never been there, only heard Matt Barnett talk about it at a conference. He mentions alot of what they do and how they take families in, give food, etc… and his personal testimony about how there was no churches in that neighborhood at all until God moved him there. (it’s a funny testimony, because he’s a dorky white dude in his own words, and he ends up in East LA)
What do you think of Benny Perez ministry, Hookers for Jesus in Vegas? I know it got him an interview in Penthouse! LOL!!
Or Hillsong with the Iheart movement? Effective or hype?
I’m curious because this is such a great topic, how the charismatic church (fastest growing denomination) which has resources and exposure, needs to step up in social issues and helpin hookers, homless, hungry, …whoever needs help!
On the opposite side… instead of not blasting everything they do, it would be nice if churches were required to give a full accounting of their activities and exactly what all the tithes bought/did for the community, missions, those in need, etc. vs. how much went to the pastors/transporation for staff/restaurant visits paid for by church credit cards/technology, etc. If they had to account for all of it to their congregation, would they handle it in a wiser way? Since attending my new church, I’ve noticed CBC is one of the only churches (perhaps all MFI churches do this) that does NOT post their budget vs. tithe in a bulletin or pamphlet anywhere. All other churches I’ve attended do that. And, without even asking for tithe, they all seem to meet their needs. Says a lot. Why is there no accountability for CBC? Why do those in the services (because I used to be one) call for accountability and a record of it all? I remember once every year, they used to do this, but it always seemed vague. Maybe others know what I’m talking about?
If my church is doing something to help others, I want to know details. It’s my money they’re using, afterall.
NSQ, are you talking about those lovely 4-color brochures that CBC called their “financial report”? The ones that gave you absolutely zero information?
Yeah, my current church mails a financial status report to every member quarterly. At the all-church annual meeting, a detailed report is given to every member. At any time, any member asking to see the monthly report will be given one.
And when I say detailed, that’s exactly what it is: the pastor’s salary, the cost of the flowers, insurance premiums, janitorial expenses, etc. Also amounts used for missions, charitable projects and other helping. As it should be.
Yes, yes, yes! Those are the ones. What exactly did they have in them, again? I can’t remember. But I do remember thinking… this doesn’t tell me anything. And, I was like 10 at the time.
I’m almost embarrassed to call the church and ask for a financial report. They wouldn’t give it, would they? And, since I’ve left, that would just be considered spying in my mind. Does anyone know if they even keep track of the money that comes in? It seems very curious. I’m glad to know, though, that none of the pastors have a private jet… now THAT would be suspect…
They take advantage of the staff, the congregation, the students, the parents, charge exorbitant amounts of money, always grab for more, always seem to be in debt, and don’t account for any of it – to the people who actually keep them “in business”. What can we do? Even though I no longer attend, I know MANY who do. Are other churches that way?
And, I recently heard that the church is reaching out to the needy… in the form of asking the congregation to donate clothing to a local thrift store. Many people followed through and did so. But, did you know that the thrift store charges high prices and serves NOT the needy, but the thrifty people in the area? Why donate so someone can sell it? I heard of a church in Ohio that accepts donations of anything and everything… they give it away to whoever needs it – and who can show genuine need. Couches, clothes, blankets, food… the church doesn’t take any of the donations for its’ people, but passes it on to those who are really struggling. That’s how it should be… don’t just support a local thrift store. Hmmm… this give me an idea of how to help… I love brainstorming here!
Exactly! Kind of goes to my “telling the world about all the great service we do” point. Is it really necessary to go to conferences and have a cock fighting contest with all the other speakers about how great your church is? And the Dream Center is NOT in East LA. It’s on the West side of downtown in a very socio-economic mixed area called Echo Park, near Dodger Stadium. It’s not the best area to be walking around in, but it certainly ain’t the ghetto, slums, or South Central either.
I have no idea what is going on with Benny Perez. I heard him speak once in my life at CBC (back when I was in high school) and almost fell asleep he was so boring (not to mention the fact I had no idea what he was talking about. Something having to do with colored chairs is all I remember??)
Never heard of this so can’t really comment on it. (In case you haven’t noticed I’m very anti-megachurch. If a church is more then a thousand people I say just branch off and start more churches in other neighborhoods, areas. There’s no need for 5, 10 or 15 thousand people all to attend the same church. It’s actually quit silly in my opinion.)
agreed
Well, if you need control you’d want them all under one roof. Oops did say control?
How many people did Jesus preach to at the Mount? 5000?
Look, I don’t think the issue is with the size of the Sunday service. My problem with that large of church’s (mini-denominations) is 1st accountability – Most Mega Church (Over 10k) SR Pastor’s are so successful that they lack any accountability because what they are doing is working – 2nd People get lost in the shuffle. Some people go to Mega Churches just so they do not have to be accountable (opposite of control – they do not want anyone in there business). These people fail to be disciples of the word and then fail to grow into what God has for them. For many of these people they will eventually be hurt – or loose faith because they have nothing to root them into the word. 3rd issue with the Mega Church model is isolation. As many of these churches are unaffiliated with denominations as people grow in Christ and ready to go from disciples to what ever God given gift (Apostle, Evangelist and so on) there is no room for them to serve in those capacities and because it is a Mega Church model there is no emphasis on Church planting new churches with new leaders.
Other then that, the combined “buying power” of 10k + congregation can lead to awesome resources for many ministries world wide. The problem is because they did not start out supporting outside ministries they never end up doing it at all.
Former NBCC Member… well said. I see nothing wrong with a big or mega church, but the focus tends to be very off-focus. It’s dangerous and ineffective when the feeding only happens within the congregation. With that much power and that much influence, you’d think they could do more than a small church, but in MANY cases, they’re less effective than a church a 1/10 of their size (or even smaller). It’s really quite sad. On the other hand, I have to constantly ask myself, “What am I doing to reach out to people? What am I doing to build the Kingdom of God?” If I’m just sitting here being frustrated, it’s to no avail. If I’m sitting here helping people become aware of the problem and doing something about it – then, I know, it’ll make a difference. Sometimes the latter is so hard.