This is a question that comes up a lot on this blog. And I thought it might be helpful if we as a blogging community determined which people in the world are, in fact, God's Anointed, (aka those whom we cannot harm) and which people are not God's annointed. I'm going to start with my list, but please feel free to include your own "list of anointed" in the comments below.
The following is a list of people who are NOT God's Anointed
- Justin Morton (No explanation needed. This also extends to my immediate family.)
- Joel Osteen (He's overexposed. Even God's tired of seeing him on TV)
- Ke$ha (Her songs all sound the same.)
- Frank Damazio (This also includes any pastor afilliated with MFI)
- Judah Smith (Does anyone know if Judah Smith has had sex yet? I haven't heard him mention it in a couple days.)
- Barack Obama (He's Muhammad's Anointed.)
- Lebron James (May you lose every game next year.)
- Ben Bernanke (God's 401K has lost a lot of money.)
- Sarah Palin (There's an intelligence test required to be God's annointed. She didn't pass.)
And here is a list of people who I believe ARE God's Annointed
- Billy Graham (Genuinely Christ-like)
- Snooki (God loves The Poof)
- Carrie Underwood (God likes country music, what can I say)
- Will Ferrill (He was out with Semi-Pro. But God re-annointed him after watching The Other Guys. It's a solid film)
- Rick Warren (God really likes A Purpose Driven Life)
- Tenley from The Bachelor Pad (God also really likes this show. Who knew He was so into Reality TV?)
- Warren Buffet (God has stock options in Berkshire Hathaway)
Hilarious Justin. Pure blogging gold.
I am surprised that Ke$ha made the unAnnointed list. I would have pegged her as annointed for sure.
She was annointed, after releasing her single “Tik Tok”. But then God listened to the whole album and when He heard “Party at a Rich Dude’s House”, He immediately un-anointed her.
I would have thought Obama as annointed for sure…I mean come on, the guy did pick North Carolina, the Lakers and the Saints to win! What is more annointed then that?
Snooki and Will Ferrell have to go. They should be replaced with Kyle Chandler from “Friday Night Lights” (best character on TV…EVER!) and Steve Carell. The guy is just so much funnier and smarter (qualities God REALLY likes) then Ferrell.
Steve Carell? Are you kidding me? The American version of The Office doesn’t compare the the phenominal work the Rick Jervias did in the Brittish version.
And now that I think about it… I’d like to add Ricky Jervias to God’s Annointed list…except that he is a well known athiest…hmmmnnn..slight conflict of interests there…
Maybe not annointed but certainly one of the funniest people alive (which may be worth more in the long run anyway).
“Autotune” is the reason she is unanointed. Also, for some reason every time I hear that one song of hers, I think of this song… I don’t know why. Not to mention, she stole the dollar $ign from them… they had it first.
Funny entertainment but cheesy and very unanointed. But who cares right?
Definitely Ricky Gervais . . . and I’m with you JohnPaul on BBC’s version. This was always one of my favorite scenes:
Karli,
“THERE’S BEEN A RAPE UPSTAIRS!!!”
Always get their attention.
By far the best single episode of any sitcom ever made (maybe not
“by far” but certainly close)
The other day, I got a twitter from the wife of one of the MFI pastors… one who left CBC…
please tell me what you think about it… because, my first impression was to scream, pull my hair out, and cry at the same time… but maybe I’m overreacting.
Here it is… “Davids men told him that he was ‘more valuable’ to them than ten thousand men! This my friend is how we should value our pastors/leaders.”
Okay, so any thoughts? My first impression is based on my understanding of the particular referred to verse. Weren’t he people shouting/singing, Saul had slain 1000, but David had slain 10,000… did that make David more valuable? Are pastors slaying many people – thus making them more valuable than ten thousand men? Are pastors more valuable than those in the congregation? Should they be valued above all? Seems to me that Jesus didn’t think so… he was pretty disappointed that the disciples asked that question. So, who here is to be humbled? I certainly hope I never, ever, ever consider myself more valuable than another person – let alone consider myself or even my husband to be more valuable than 10,000 others. Okay, your turn.
Don’t get too worked up about it…simply wipe the dust off your feet and move on.
Obviously this is a rather arrogant statement to make. If you must respond simply tweet back:
“Davids men thought he was ‘more valuable’ to them than ten thousand men! Where have all the good leaders gone?”
Your list of God’s anointed must be a joke, right?
God doesn’t like jesting, I would be careful about who I put in a list as God’s anointed. I will present you the truth as to who is God’s anointed.
Texe Marrs
Carol Matriciana, who is exposing the occult movement.
Joe Schimmel, also exposing the occult movements in Rock and Roll and Hollywood.
Dr. Stanley Monteith
Kent Hovind
Elizabeth Dilling
David J. Stewart and company at Jesus is Savior dot com
Dave Hunt
There are many more who are never publicized because they are not of this world. Men and women who have given their lives for the Gospel of Christ. And if you don’t think that persecution of the true saints doesn’t exist here in Nazi America, then try starting a church that is not 501 C3 status, with a school not registered to the Government, and you will be persecuted beyond what sleeping Christians could ever imagine.
John, you genuinely crack me up. But please, um try to refrain from the personal attacks.
Surely someone with this bad of a website could not be God’s anointed
http://www.texemarrs.com/
Elizabeth Dilling
Who said? He has a great sense of humor!
[Comment ID #38297 Will Be Quoted Here]
My attacks are not personal; whereas, Jesus is very personal to me. People will always believe in fantasies, without researching the truth. I know this because of the experiences of being technical support, people assume reality, when it couldn’t be any further away from them.
We are living in an age of unprecedented deception. I’m careful because I know I can be deceived, just as some of your friends here on this blog site. I will always preach the true message that God is dealing with all men to come to repentance. But all men love to walk in the counsels of darkness more than exposing their evil deeds.
we can not sin like the devil, and still make it to heaven. Let’s say, hypothetically speaking, I were a wife beater. and let’s pretend that God interceded into my life, like He did Paul, Per Se. I then ask Jesus to forgive me of my sins, yet continue to beat my wife. Well, I wouldn’t be sorry for my sins if I were to continue in them. This is a great analogy because when we willfully sin against God, we are guilty of treating Him like the abusive husband would his wife.
Your cronies on this blog site have a chance to repent from their wicked pride, but will they? Most likely not. God hates pride, but don’t tell them that, they won’t believe you.
Kent Hovind as in the guy that’s sitting in jail for systematically dodging his taxes? What happened to render to Caesar that which is Caesars? Did that verse get missed in the KJV?
Also, we’re not talking small time cash. He owes the government $600,000 in back taxes and was reportedly raking in over a million bucks per year at his peak. Sorry, but a systematic tax cheat doesn’t strike me as God’s anointed, just a cheapskate.
One more for you, Johnny. If you think God doesn’t like jesting, explain a duck-billed platypus.
[Comment ID #38302 Will Be Quoted Here]
Yeah and Caesar died and went to hell, because he didn’t know God. For those who enjoy supporting abortion, the mafia, and everything that defies God, go ahead and pay your taxes. Anton LeVey thought that we should support this wicked government also. So Kent was making a few bucks, and the evil IRS gestapo wanted their racketeering support. You are really missing the point as to what it really means to be a free American. I suggest you read, the accurate history of the constitution before God finds you guilty of being a socialistic Nazi.
I tried to post this previously and apparently had some technical difficulties….
Anyway, the body of Christ DOES NOT, has not and never will belong to Caesar. The 501c3 church is NOT a true church. It is an artificially created entity with a tax i.d. number that is solely created for the purpose of ‘exempting’ the congregants from having to pay a tax on goods. It also establishes a nexus between the body of trustees, pastors, other church ‘staff’ (a corporate term) and the State. The church is already exempt but by filling out forms, the church (and in this instance I use the term loosely) can buy goods for itself without paying sales tax. This also insures that pastors and staff are ‘in the system’ because you have to agree to incorporating, you have to provide social security numbers and you can also get some money back on ‘tithing’….cute trick! The bottom line is this: Jesus did not institute the IRS. Mat 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Mat 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
If I am a child of the king, why would I pay tribute to anyone else? If I am a child of the State then that would be a different story. When Christians cross the line and think that they can please God by pleasing ‘Caesar’ you are putting yourself in the very same position that Jesus preached against when he brought up the issue of serving either God or Mammon. You can’t do both.
Ok, let’s say Caesar was a Godless heathen that went to hell. Jesus still told the Pharisees to pay their taxes to him, so how is that different from paying taxes to a secular government now?
Stealing from socialistic Nazi terrorist-loving Anton Levey lovers is still stealing. You’re sure full of understanding of “making a few bucks” as long as it’s somebody who shares your world view. I’d invite you to show the same amount of grace towards those that have different views than you.
Back on the topic, I vote Lady Gaga as God’s anointed. She’s the duck-billed platypus of music.
Yelena, I’m not sure what your conclusion is, but what do you say to this passage?
Matthew 22:15-22 (King James Version)
15Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
16And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
22When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
If you’re living in the US, you’ve got pictures of US presidents and statesmen on your money, so I’d say that means we owe taxes. Plus, it’s a little tough to do God’s work when you go to jail for tax evasion.
[Comment ID #38303 Will Be Quoted Here]
No one enjoys supporting abortion.
In case you were unaware, Socialism is much broader than the Nazi Party (only one party of many who has embraced Socialism).
[Comment ID #38296 Will Be Quoted Here]
Umm…..
[Comment ID #38297 Will Be Quoted Here]
I’m just wondering if anyone else thinks of Cowboy when reading John’s comments?!
Ok, I can’t resisted chiming in my additions under the heading of unanointed which I tried to narrow down:
1. Benny Hinn (because he thinks he’s Kathryn Kuhlman reincarnated; because of the annoying way he says aNOInting and Holy Spiddit; he owns 5 houses and a jet – not that his possessions make him unanointed but I thought I’d throw that in)
2. Anyone in the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation): C Peter Wagner et al – need i say more?
3. Rick Warren (you don’t have to look too far to see that money may be the driving motivation of his purpose too)
4. Todd Bently – the weirdest christian scammer guy of all time (and not bcz of his tatoos; but bcz he kicked people in the stomach when they thought they were getting prayer for healing etc; he set up ATMs in the foyers of the places he preached; he had an extra-marital affair all the while milking the crowd of their money)
5. Paula White (and not just bcz she was recently seen holding hands with Benny Hinn while traveling with him in Rome either)
6. Joel Osteen’s Wife (to be elite or not to be, that is the question. Does being married to a nice guy who seems unelite count?)
———————————–
Who do I think is anointed?
Every true Christian who asks for the anointing to do what it is God’s put in them to do; because we each have the Holy Spirit within us. (This could even include Joel Osteen who seems like such a nice guy! )
Todd Bently – the weirdest christian scammer guy of all time (and not bcz of his tatoos; but bcz he kicked people in the stomach when they thought they were getting prayer for healing etc; he set up ATMs in the foyers of the places he preached; he had an extra-marital affair all the while milking the crowd of their money)
I hate the whole thing about Todd Bently … Have you seen the one (youtube) that shows his wife is possessed. My wife and I had a whole evening of Todd Bently youtube videos night …
Its like watching Tudors … You know its wrong, but you just keep watching the next episode anyway
[Comment ID #38314 Will Be Quoted Here]
LOL! You are so right, kind of like a sideshow isn’t it?!
What’s equally disturbing is how the NAR rallied behind him and still claimed it was a move of God
Wow. John Vian, just one comment (if I thought you were open to a dialogue, I’d comment on more of your posts): hardly any churches in the USA are 501(c)(3) organizations. Churches are automatically tax-exempt as religious charities. Some churches may believe it’s necessary without actually seeking credibly legal counsel, and a few may actually need the additional 501(c)(3) designation if they plan to do social-service-type programs with the community (beyond their normal work as a church, although social services should be part of the church’s “normal work,” it’s, sadly, typically not so). However, the vast majority of churches do not need it and do not have it. Now, the churches we discuss here, CBC, TCC, etc., SHOULD have to pay taxes, in my opinion. They are not merely “religious charities” in that the majority of their annual revenues support salaries for leaders that exceed “market rate” salaries given the education levels and duties of those positions. It should be impossible for those churches to get/keep 501(c)(3) status given those variables. I’m not an expert or an attorney, but I have set up and also worked with many 501(c)(3) organizations so I’m generally familiar with the rules & regulations.
Fezzik, I agree! Jesus DID say to give to Ceasar’s what was due him, in what I consider to be a fairly dismissive way. He even said it was “wicked” for “hypocrites” to “tempt” him by the very question of whether taxes should be paid.
JESUS CHRIST is God’s annointed. I agree w/Detox’s definition of God’s annointed, in re people: “Every true Christian who asks for the anointing to do what it is God’s put in them to do; because we each have the Holy Spirit within us.”
Churches need to be a 501c3 if they want the people who donate to them to have a tax deduction. So that is why 99.999% of churches are 501c3 because they are not loony toons over the government.
That being said: Some churches only except Tithe as cash an I believe that the Matthew 22:15-22 story shows us specifically that our Tithes and offerings should be our Talents and our time not Cash.
I struggle with this in the modern day, because if that is the case, everyone donating materials food and talents to support the church and the church staff it can get mighty .. um .. cumbersome
So practically speaking I think we should give some money to our church as a way to provide for the bills, and give time and talents too. Some churches do not want talents so I do not go to those.
John Vain and Yelena for that matter: I believe both of you have an un-healthy understanding of “Anointed” or Pastor
Here is something I wrote on another post http://www.citybusinesschurch.org/blogblog/2010/07/08/city-boobie-church-loses-another-one/#comment-37983
Todd Bently: Yea we had a few people at our church try to go to his thing a few years back .. I posted a lot about it on this blog back then. I can sum it all up as this:
Some people who went to go see him did get “healed” or had a true encounter with God, not because of Todd Bently but in spite of him. Those people were seeking God, and God honors that. So they may have had “something”.
Todd is an idiot who wants to be more then he is. I do not believe in revivals or modern day “holy places”.
[Comment ID #38305 Will Be Quoted Here]
Those who live under the laws of God, are free of the laws of Lucifer. As an example, I don’t have to obtain a license to drive, or an ID card to prove my citizenship. I don’t have to pay Federal income tax, or the racketeering Insurance companies. God has granted me authority over having to ask big brother Lucifer for permission, and I remain a free man. I can pack my guns without a license because I’m a free American. I exercise my constitutional rights boldly before the wicked Gestapo police department and get away with it. Because God is my protector, I can do whatever I want…. as long as I’m in God’s boundaries (Big Key here). Why, I can blow up an abortion clinic, if only God would give the orders! But that’s just it, God doesn’t give them kind of orders in this day and age. People don’t have any ears to hear what God is speaking. I don’t even have to rise for any judge entering the court room, because they are not walking with God’s Holy Word over their head, indicating their surrender to God as the Final Authority. So, which of Lucifer’s orders are you going to convict me of breaking on judgment day? Every single one of them, I only uphold God’s laws, I say this with a smile and perfect peace. For God fights my battles for me, and He wins every single time.
Those of you who think you’re free, go ahead and drive your automobiles without insurance, or a valid drivers license, and stop paying your Federal income tax, and property tax, and lets see just how free you really are. “True†freedom only comes from God, but God is not going to bless anyone with freedom if they don’t trust in Him as their ultimate Authority. Most people are unworthy of freedom because they haven’t a clue about the power of God’s Word or the Constitution. I suggest you find out.
[Comment ID #38367 Will Be Quoted Here]
Last time I checked “Lucifer” didn’t have laws… that’s kind of the point.
Also, last time I checked, none of the things on your list of “Laws” conflict with God’s laws; therefore, He would probably encourage you to follow them, pays taxes, etc.
If you don’t want to pay taxes, follow laws, etc., then that is fine. However, you need to stop using roads, publically subsidized water and sewer systems (that are not covered simply by the fees you pay), and all things of that nature. Also, no calling 911—ever.
In fact, if you are truly against following laws, paying taxes, then that is fine– just move to the middle of nowhere and start finding sustenance on your own, away from civilized societies that require rules—it is part of being in the club. If you don’t like the rules of being in the club, then leave the club—just don’t complain about the club, from inside the club.
John Vian: You could not be more wrong about God and government.
The bible I read (I believe its the same in the KJV) told of Paul excercising his righs as a Roman Citizen. Rome was much less godly then the USA but even so, Paul wrote that we need to submit to our governments.
Yes, you might (assuming you believe in Christ as your saviour – something I am starting to question) have freedom in Christ but that freedom comes with a responciblity, and if your a messenger for his word then you need to be living up-standing in your community. To do that you have to pay your taxes and submit to your governmnet.
Change of topic here:
What makes the USA more godly than Rome?
I received a tweet this morning from Judah Smith… not sure why I follow him, but thought it’d be interesting to see what they’re up to (I signed up to follow him, when I was a fan)…
basically, before church this morning, he got a hair cut… he stated something along the lines of “this morning, I got a haircut – now I can preach better!”. Sorry, I don’t have the exact tweet anymore, because I deleted it, before realizing it’d be amusing.
I’m interested to see what responses will be like to “What makes the USA more godly than Rome?”… the topic for a major paper I wrote had to do with a comparison between Ancient Rome (1 AD – 500 AD) and the USA from beginning to current, and the potential future – focusing on that same subject… thoughts?
Judah, the anti-Samson.
Oh, I cannot resist…
Well, Rome had Clement, Ignatius, Tertullian, Augustine, et. al.
The US has SPFD and Judah, the anti-Samson. ‘nuf said.
[Comment ID #38372 Will Be Quoted Here]
Agreed. What the hell does this mean?? How can one nation be more “godly” then another? Did someone forget that we are all sinners who fall short of the glory of God no matter how “good” we may act or behave? I think someone may have missed the history lesson where America was founded by committing a mass genocide against Indian tribes and then used slave labor to build the country. There’s no godliness in that. This is the kind of arrogance that gives Americans (and Christians) a bad name.
Ahh, well lets just start with Slavery, Killing people who believed any religion outside of the reformed greek myths, throwing babies in the streets to be trampled to death, corruption, bla bla bla …
Not that we do not have any of that today …
The USA has most of its laws based on the Judaic/Christian ethics that was God inspired. Although people are people and with out God they are awful to each other by nature.
I used godly with a lowercase g .. I prob should have used the word ethical. Much less ethical then the USA.
Good Christian folk used the Bible back in the day to justify the laws of slavery…and not that long ago either. After slavery was abolished, they continued to use it to justify the laws of segregation…and that was even more recently…within the lifetime of many people who are alive today. Those same good Christian folk now use the Bible to keep gay people as 2nd class citizens…even using the same scriptures as were used when it was illegal to marry another race. I’d prefer a differently inspired ethical way of living…
Thou shalt not kill/steal/etc…we can say that most humans don’t do these things solely because the ethics of the world are Bible inspired say that we should not, but I don’t buy that argument. There are now and have been cultures who have never known anything about the Judeo-Christian God or his “word” and they also live according to an ethic of not killing, stealing, cheating, lying, etc. I know some make the argument that it is innate – that God is everywhere and that people somehow just “know” that they aren’t suppose to behave this way. The truth is that, evolutionarily speaking, there are benefits to the individual and to the whole, to NOT do those things. The benefits of being kind, not causing any kind of physical/emotional harm to your neighbor, etc – those things outweigh any ill-gotten gain. Of course it is innate in us to be ethical – it increases our chances of being accepted into society which in turn increases our chances of survival.
I choose to be good to ALL people and to want good for ALL people…my actions & behaviors, my altruism, my humanity – they are not limited by a book that in another thread on this blog is being discussed in a manner that is laughable. Does anyone realize that when, on either side of an argument, you have two+ people talking about what was taken out of the Bible, what was put back in, what evil people were in charge of doing the taking/leaving, and how they somehow KNOW what God REALLY wanted for that book all along? They sound kind of insane. How that doesn’t prove to them that the Bible is unreliable and should not be taken literally escapes me.
Every Christian I know – the bad ones and the good ones – they all use the Bible and their faith in God to relinquish responsibility for their own actions. They believe it is OK for them to pass judgment on others even though they constantly insist they are not judging – they seriously think that because God thinks it, then it’s OK for them to think it too. As if they could know the mind of God. They think it is OK for them to say & think the kinds of things that PF spouted from the pulpit about bigotry – they may be choosy about who they let see this part of them, but it’s still the truth. As humble as Christians believe they are, there is a massive amount of self-righteousness that goes on when you are unkind to someone and then call it “love”, simply because you are a Christian. I don’t even know why I am typing this out – it’s pretty much impossible to see this aspect of your faith until you are on the other side of it.
Well spoken, Just Thinking. Thanks for typing it out.
It may be impossible to see until you are on the other side of it but there are enough of us there who know what you are talking about.
Thanks JP – and I don’t mean to impeach all Christians. When I talk about the good Christians I know, they far outweigh the bad ones I know…but that’s just the ones I know
And when I speak of them, I respect & love them and believe that they are taking their religion in a new direction from what it use to be. I may personally think that religion is of no use for me, but I respect those who dare to continue on in their faith while simultaneously challenging/questioning what/who came before them. That includes yourself.
Who is annointed? Hard to say, but I like Banning Leibscher and the Jesus Culture worship.
That guy is an honest, down-to-earth preacher who is still reaching thousands across the USA and the world and (if the testimonies are to be believed) actually sees healings and miracles taking place with young people. He gives big vision, and believes for the generation of youth to chagne the world, but keeps it about Jesus and not on wealth/position, etc…
He acts like he really believes this stuff…
And Jesus Culture worship is very…pure. (IMO) Just powerful, raw, and always focused on Jesus, His love, His glory etc…
Are we talking about self-anointed preachers???
[Comment ID #38372 Will Be Quoted Here]
If you were to follow history, you would realize that Rome was the beast, spoken of Daniel the prophet, which is that great dragon, the devil. The United States is the dreadful and terrible beast, which is more diverse than the Roman Empire. If you don’t know where Rome stood in Biblical prophecy then how can anyone know where the United States stand in prophecy?
I’ll clue you in.
The church is no different today, in this day and age of September 7, 2010.
This Word of God is also to all you so-called Christians, who belong to 501 C3 churches, living in comfortable homes, and watching television (your real idol god) for recreation.
This is going to reoccur in these last days also. The harlot church, (which is the Christians today, ) are going to be slaughtered by Babylon, our Government, our big Idol. Your love affair with Sodom and Gomorrah will come to an end, and your lover, our great Government, a sodomite in nature, will become your worst nightmare. Most of you so-called-Christians, will give in to the mark of the beast, if they haven’t already have. It is you, who God is pouring His judgment out on. For those who enjoy living in the passions of sin, and think they are going to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, you better think again.
(This warning is for America!!!)
.
Notice the “perpetual desolations,†it hasn’t happened yet, and although this symbolizes hell, this day is still coming. Also take note that the church has been serving Babylon, our government, since April 15th, 1947. This means our time as a “free church†is just about up.
This verse is speaking of this day and age. The reality of it all is, churches are in trouble with God; however, they don’t even know it.
(The United States is a country of mingled people.)
(This prophecy is concerning this day and age folks.)
(And you will drink of this cup America, your time is at hand.)
In other words, it’s the righteous who are going to remain here on the earth. It’s the wicked who are going to be taken away via the Word of the Lord. See also Proverbs 2:22 and Deuteronomy 28:63, and God’s Word cannot be broken.
The above verse is to you, pastors of the 501 C3 churches!!!
And you hypocrites who think you are going to be taken by some rapture, your going away alright, right into the pits of hell.
According to the words of Jeremiah 25, ahem, God’s Holy Word, America is in big trouble, and her end is not going to be pretty. I suggest that you hypocrites start throwing away your television sets, and start seeking God with all your heart, soul and mind. Your sports heroes are not going to save you, neither are your Hollywood idles. The only lessons learned from your television sets are greed, lust, idol worship, witchcraft, and lies upon lies upon lies, and then more lies. Don’t be so foolish, you gluttonous obese Americans, who live in a stupor of sin and filth, what God has to say in His Word, is more important than what that damnable television has to say. What God is speaking in this day and age out weighs, by far, what the medias portray. And God is calling you hypocrites to turn from your sins, yet you don’t hear God’s Word because your damn television set, or radio station is blaring in your ears.
And when you are in hell, being tormented from an everlasting torment, you will cry out unto God to save you. What does God’s Word say will happen?
Proverbs 1:24 explains in awesome detail your end, oh wicked churches.
This is hell.
I will say, I need this lesson just as much as everyone else. We better start seeking God, or die in our sins.
I was gonna quote this verse in a different version, but then I think I remembered that they aren’t kosher.
“For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.” James 2:13 KJV
and
“Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:20-21 KJV
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 4:13-15
My view is this: Salvation is freely given to WHOSOEVER…PERIOD!
If you are saved by grace and not of works, because our flesh is as filthy rags, then the logical answer would be that since I didn’t gain it through works that I have done….my losing it through works that I have done would be of non effect to the salvation acquired only through Jesus Christ. It’s always been a question of faith. Abraham was saved by his faith, Noah was saved by his faith, etc.The law clearly outlines sin and man’s failure as a WHOLE to keep himself from sin. If there was some way man could achieve sinlessness, why in the world would Christ have been crucified?
So, I believe this: man is sinful, without his own ability to save himself . Jesus Christ pays the price ONCE for all and it is by God’s grace that we can be drawn by the Holy Ghost to accept the sacrifice Jesus gave on the cross.
(2Co 1:20) For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
(2Co 1:21) Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
(2Co 1:22) Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
If you are truly saved and sealed the flesh is always prone to sin but the spirit is sealed in Christ Jesus. It is in this way, through Christ that we are ‘perfected’ not by works that we have done. The law is the school master that points the way to salvation because it is imperative that one is aware that if one point of the law is broken we are guilty of breaking all. Since we are helpless without Christ, I choose to rest in the knowledge that Christ has the power to keep me and that if I try to live within His will, my walk here on earth will be of benefit to my testimony as a Christian and if i fall into sin, the Holy Spirit that dwells within me will guide me and convince me of my sins as I walk with the Lord.
Yelena:
I almost agree with you 100% on salvation. You said one thing though that is “common doctrine” that I disagree with.
“the flesh is always prone to sin”
I believe the bible makes the case that before we are saved, as in before we believe that Christ is our Savior, we are prone to sin. I actually, as one who was saved in my mid 20′s, could say that I would almost always make the wrong decision before salvation. By my flesh I was always prone to sin and almost always did. But after salvation I have been returned to my original creation as Adam was, so I can now choose on my own to sin but I am not prone to it.
Christ has returned us to our original creation. He has returned our direct communication with the Father via the Holy Spirit. Through baptisms I have removed strongholds and original sin, I am no longer prone to sin. I do sin, but it is a much more of a decision and sometimes in out right rebellion then it is my nature. Actually my personal experience is that while sinning I really feel physically sick and if I purposely try to cut off from God (hey it happens, don’t judge me
I feel physically sick too.
It can hurt after being in close relationship with God for long periods of time, to sin.
So not only am I not prone to sin (that is always making the wrong decision) I am prone not to sin because it hurts.
Former, can you back this up scripturally?
(Dang, I wish we had private chat available. I hate doing these theological discussions this way.)
What about Romans 7? Paul seems to indicate that while we are new creatures in Christ, the old nature is still at work and it is a struggle which we will never be totally free from until we go be with the Lord.
” 14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.”
Anonymous: (ann too):
Wow, good scripture, but really a case of slicing a very small part of a whole chapter and making bad doctrine.
Look at the verses (same chapter) right before that, this is the topic of discussion in Paul’s letter, and right to the very point I already made:
1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Struggling With Sin
7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”[b] 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
Paul says:
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature (PAST TENSE) , the sinful passions aroused by the law were (PAST TENSE) at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death (PAST TENSE). 6But now, by dying (IN BAPTISM) to what once bound us (CURRENT TENSE), we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. (THIS IS PAST TENSE or Paul is contradicting himself? As the sinful nature is past tense in the earlier verse)
So this scripture you give Paul IS saying exactly what I described earlier. I as a person who follows Christ no longer live in my sin nature .. I can choose to sin .. but its a choice as it was for Adam. I am no longer prone to sin as I was in my early 20′s before I knew Christ.
The reason I get this Scripture so clearly is because I have lived it. I was in the military at the time of my salvation. It was such a radical conversion that people in my unit could not believe who I had become. I went from someone always “sinning” to someone who became faithful very close to over night. Even my Leaders saw the radical change. After removing the “prone to sin” from my life I changed immediately.
Again in ROMANS 8:
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
We are dead from our Sinful Nature …. There are so many more, but really I am on sound Doctrine here
ANN:
Did I answer your question or was there more? I love this topic, it needs to be preached from the mountain tops. .. THIS IS the GOOD NEWS. We are born again into the perfect creation God always intended to be. At Pentecost we received the Holy Spirit again. Its like Adam had a direct cell phone to God … lost it .. Christ gave it back to each of us. Its great!!!
What did I say would you like scripture on?
Just in the case I missed it here: Is the Holy Spirit a cell phone?
Romans 8:26-27 (New International Version)
26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.
John 14: 25″All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Former, you made three statements. I’ll address them one by one — hopefully in a concise manner.
As I read the NT, it seems to me that the promise is there, but the fulfillment is not yet. (I Cor. 15, Heb 11) That is why there are so many verses in the epistles about how to go about behaving like a Christian. For instance, “Take off this… put on that.” An ongoing process. KWIM?
Yes, He has. And it’s great. But, it’s still fuzzy. We still hear imperfectly, and we see dimly. Again, we await final fulfillment. (I Cor. 13, Phil. 3) Those who declare that it should be otherwise just make the immature frustrated and discouraged. Personally, I think this is a dangerous doctrine.
Strongholds are removed through “weapons of warfare”, which are obedience and learning the knowledge of God — ongoing. (II Cor. 10) Granted, getting water baptized is an act of obedience; however, it is but a sign of identification with the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. Our sin is washed away by His blood. (Rev. 1, et.al.)
So for now, our sins are atoned for, but our sin nature will not be removed until the redemption of our bodies. If it were already so, we would not still be subject to death.
*****
I really hate “sword fights.” If we can discuss this as “iron sharpens iron,” then great. But only if it is helping people find encouragment in their Christian walk and helps us all to see His word more clearly. Agreed?
anna: of course we can discuss this as “iron sharpens iron” I have been challenged over the years on this blog and elsewhere on many doctrines. Some I have concluded I was wrong or distorted by my “mfi et all” doctrines and some I have really had to research to know why I believe what I believe and concluded my doctrine correct.
I am not sure how much “arguments” help anyone and it rarely gets people saved often turns people off to religion.
That said:
1 Cor 15 is the discussion of the 2 Adams. I do not understand the point your making as this 2 Adam doctrine is the doctrine that Adam removed and cursed and we all died and Christ removed death and we are now currently alive. I see nothing about a “latter promise” here.
In Hebrews 11 the ALL the people discussed who had faith and did not receive the promise are pre-Christ. We are the fulfillment of Christ we are living the Promised life. The last line sums it up:
39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. (ALL PRE-CHRIST) 40God had planned something better for us (WE RECEIVE BETTER THEN THEM) so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
I do not understand what 1 Cor 13 has anything to do with a future but Phil 3 does say in the end about waiting for our Glorious bodies. Is this your reference?
I disagree that Baptism is out of obedience. I do not have time to address this now, but I will come back to that.
Hi Former, thank you for your graciousness. Of course I don’t want to argue with you. I think you’re great! I can tell that you love God and are set to please Him.
So if I sound argumentative, I’m arguing with the source of your doctrine, not you! It’s been around a lot longer than either of us, and I’m old…
I have a problem with the idea that we are restored to the adamic state when we become Christians. Two reasons: (1) It really entices people to imagine what they can/should be like. It totally takes the focus off of the majesty and magnificence of the Lord Jesus. I know, I know, you’re going to say that it’s all because of Jesus. BUT… listen hard and look at how the people who preach this doctrine sound and act.
That was one of the quibbles I have with CBC and SPFD. He would preach a sermon, and it was all about me. God exists for my benefit. There was no sense of “All hail the power of Jesus’ name — let angels prostrate fall!” Do you see what I mean? Now put your Rev. 1:12-16 glasses on and look at this doctrine through them. I hope I’m making sense.
And (2) I don’t like this doctrine (besides that I don’t think it’s what the NT teaches), because it creates such discouragement and frustration in God’s people. After all, if I’m supposed to be rid of all strongholds, and have no more innate tendency to sin, then why am I such a mess?
I must draw two conclusions: Either my salvation failed, or I’m a hopeless hypocrite. Again, the focus is on me. This is not what the Lord intended.
*****
Now to finish my book… the references I cited earlier:
(I Cor. 15) Paul is saying how we are still in these bodies, in the image of Adam. But when the resurrection occurs, we will have bodies like Jesus did after His resurrection. My point being that those are the two options. And we don’t get the second option until the trumpet sounds.
(Heb 11) Talking about the promise — Well, Jesus has come and died for us. That is part of the promise. But the remainder of the promise is still out there — a city whose builder and maker is God. So until then, we have joined these people of faith, still on a pilgrimage to the final destiny.
(I Cor. 13) Says we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect has come… Again, I think Paul is referencing the resurrection. Ditto Phil. 3.
*****
I hope our blog friends are not snoozing at this point… zzzzzzzzzzzz
Well Anna, if you wrote a book it was a mini book–but there might be some merit to encourage all blog responses to be no more then 160 characters…maybe Tweeting for God?
Anna:
I can see your perspective. I know the pastors who preach it the way you say. I do not have time to address everything, but if you are willing to hash this out so am I. I can not count how many times this forum has helped me better understand God, the bible and the purpose of Jesus.
I have to say I do not like the context at all that God is here for me. Someone who is in that place in their walk with Christ certainly doesn’t have the maturity in their relationship with God.
For me being brought back to my “Adam” is not about what God can do for me … It is bringing me (and man) back to the place of our creation. If someone is feels guilty because they can’t measure up they should know that no man/woman has in the history of man before and after Christ. The bible goes into great detail about this and God’s solution is grace. My point is simple, before I was saved (I was a secular catholic) I had a predisposition to sin. Now I have a predisposition not to sin. Does that mean I don’t sin? NO, I think from the start of this I said that not only do I sin but worse sometimes I even push God away. Why do I do this? Well because I am man, not because of a predisposition. I make the same failures as Adam did. I can’t be too angry at Adam and he is not the devil even though his actions cost all of us.
I think this whole concept sometimes is difficult for people who grew up in church or were saved at a very young age have trouble understanding. Their whole adult life the only struggle with the flesh (for some – others fell away and came back) was that normal “Adam†struggle the one that Adam lost. Because you (or someone else not on this blog) have never lived in Death it would be easy to think that some of these verses even apply to you/them.
But for those of us who lived in the world, who had NEVER heard the word of God before, did not know anything about it .. thought the bible supported the concept of Space Aliens and generally was a secular/humanist moral obligation book .. Not that they (me) would have ever read it .. but you know that is what others say about that book. So living with my girlfriends, going through girl friends, doing drugs or any other pleasure, I not only felt no moral condemnation for – in many cases thought was a good idea – even moral. Such as living with my girlfriend because if you are someday going to get married then living with each other is important so you know if you can live with that person … That pot is “natual†(not that would stop you from doing coke) so “God†made it for us to smoke. That sex was an expression of love so the more people you have it with the more people you love… Love thy neighbor.
After salvation everything changes. That girlfriend moves out, you start planning a real marriage meet other Christian friends and put value on relationships for the 1st time in life. Not because it was a culture you grew up in, but because the Holy Spirit changed you from the inside. 13 years later those values have grown stronger as spiritual maturity has set in.
I can argue the bible verses till we turn blue, but I think my testimony better reflex exactly what I mean by the sin nature is dead. I believe Paul had a similar experience in his life and he says it over and over verse after verse.
I do not think you are arguing and I think this is a good discussion even if everyone else is asleep. ïŠ
Agreed, Stephen. I’ll keep it short.
@ Former: Your testimony is great! Yay God!
I guess my only further comment is that we both agree in part, we just disagree on extent. You say the full promise is now. I say it’s later. It’s not a point that our salvation hinges on…
Not, say, like …. tithing!!! hehe.
Oh, I forgot: speaking of meeting Christian friends…
CBC put out neighborhood flyers today. If you bring in the flyer next Sunday, they will give you a free latte, a pastry, and a friend.
Wonder how they do that?
Anna: Actually I do not think we disagree even that much.
“You say the full promise is now. I say it’s later”
I think we are in a semantics quandary. I believe we have been returned to our “Original” creation in Adam personally. The removal of sin and strongholds on our life although unlike Eden, we still live in a fallen world. I believe there is a further promise of “the 1000 year reign and eventually Heaven that will be much better. This is a time without sickness curses on the world or even evil altogether. This is a time of Christ’s reign.
Ok then,
… and I think this won’t happen until the resurrection.
But either way, it will all work out in the end.
I have no idea how to post an actual thread here, so I wanted to post this letter from Brian Houston that I read the other day for discussion. Here it is:
http://hillsong.com/bobbies-and-my-finances-letter-brian-houston
What do you all think of the following post from a PBC student to Pastor Frank at CBC (public post, by the way)?…
“Congratulations for today, Pastor Frank! We, PBC students are all very happy to follow a great pastor like you. May God bless you continually. We follow you whever you go. Use us and teach us, Pastor Frank! Let me follow you until death. May Jesus Christ, God’s Son, our Savior, be glorified forever and ever, amen.”
What about following the Lord? Something that comes to mind is the song, “I will go where you go… I will stay where you stay… I will be what you want me to be”. I thought that song was all about following the Lord WHEREVER HE asks. Maybe I was wrong all along?
Irrational Exuberance. Alan Greenspan
It’s not about Jesus, with these people. It’s about belonging to a club or organization that they feel is important. These are the type of folks who end up in cults.
And CBC would publicly post this??!! They should be embarrassed, and should talk to the student about his misplaced worship. “We follow you wherever you go” … “until death”?? Like lemings? “Use us and teach us”??!! Well, they’ve been well-groomed by their abusers for sure.
This post is just disturbing.
[Comment ID #38555 Will Be Quoted Here]
Wow, they are going deeper and deeper into the abyss now aren’t they. It’s like I’ve said before the more time goes on and the less relevant they become, the more hardcore they are going to become. Cat is right, it’s how cults are formed. Over time corrupt institutions begin to lose their grip. People start to pull away out of shame and fear. However of those who do stay they begin to develop an “us against the world” mentality. The start getting more and more extreme to prove that what they are doing is right. Problem is they eventually get so far into the deep end, the usually end up killing themselves.
I can totally understand the “holy places” idea. Too many Christians look at “church” as buildings rather than their own spirits. However, to say that you don’t believe in revivals seems a bit absurd. The definition of revival is “bringing again into activity and prominence”. Basically, spiritually speaking, it’s an awakening of people to a greater love, desire, and commitment to God. Do you not *want* to see revival? Or have you simply lost faith in God that He is, in fact, moving in the earth?
PJD: 1st we need to agree on the definition of revival, I am using merriam-webster.com
Definition of REVIVAL
1
: an act or instance of reviving : the state of being revived: as a : renewed attention to or interest in something b : a new presentation or publication of something old c (1) : a period of renewed religious interest (2) : an often highly emotional evangelistic meeting or series of meetings
2
: restoration of force, validity, or effect (as to a contract)
The reason I say that I do not believe in revival is because the church is not in renewed interest – the current situation is the world needs to hear God for the 1st time. I often quip we do not need a revival we need a vival!
By your definition though of personal awakening of people to greater love, desire, and commitment to God – I can believe in that.
[Comment ID #38595 Will Be Quoted Here]
I can see where you’re coming from with that. I suppose when we say the “church” or “nation” needs a revival, we often look to the former church or former nation, ie, the people that loved God and are now dead, so I hear you on the “vival”. Every generation needs an encounter with Jesus, but still, even within the church, there are those who need to be re-awakened, and, for lack of a better term, revived.
Call it restoration theology, if you will, but just like a marriage, people’s spiritual lives can sometimes go through low points and high points. There’s nothing wrong with throwing some new life into either of those situations. But as to the traditional definition, I agree that we don’t need a bunch of tent-toting “Jesus-UH” preachers trying to “stir people up”, we need the REAL Jesus with the REAL power of the Spirit.
[Comment ID #38555 Will Be Quoted Here]
Follow my example as I follow the example of Christ, said Paul. In other words, if I ever stray the course, then don’t follow my example anymore.