From reader Detox, we get news that Benny Perez's church has filed for bankruptcy in Las Vegas. Benny Perez is the pastor of The Church at South Las Vegas and is Judah Smith's brother-in-law. Which, you know, makes this story that much more delightful. Here are the details: The Church of South Las Vegas paid $4.5 million for 3.3 acres of Las Vegas Valley land three years ago. In March, that land appraised for $475,000—a 90 percent decline. The church owes a combined $7.7 million on the property and land. It appraised for $2.3 million. So, like many property owners in Las Vegas—one of the hardest hit real estate markets in the nation—Perez is upside down … $5.4 million upside down. And Benny's justification: All I know is that for us as a church, it is a stewardship issue. Would you keep throwing thousands of dollars into a black hole? The bank wants to milk our savings and everything we have until we can’t pay anymore. Bankruptcy was a business decision.”
 Ha! IT IS ALL A BUSINESS DECISION! From the color of the carpet, to the size of the pews, to the attractiveness of your associate pastors, every decision you make, Benny, is a business decision. But hey, at least you finally admit it. For me personally, the decision to strategically default raises a few issues. (To those who are unaware: A strategic default is one where you refuse to pay your loan even though you have the income to pay the loan. This is different from a traditional default, where you simply do not have the money to pay the loan. Benny can pay his loan to the bank, he just does not want to.) Legally speaking, as long as the church filed the proper paper work and got a judge to sign off on the bankruptcy then they are operating completely within the law. Of course, when the bank forecloses and takes the church, the bank will be operating completely within the law as well. From a practical side, I tend to think the strategic default was probably a smart move. The church property and building were unlikely to ever appreciate to the levels at which they were purchased. Thus, defaulting on the loan will likely end up saving The Church at South Las Vegas millions of dollars in the long run. Now, if the church loses the building and it destroys the church in the process, then this will not look like such a smart decision. From a moral perspective, I am kind of torn. Do you have a moral obligation to continue to honor a contract as long as you still can? Benny Perez could continue to pay his loan, he just felt it was in his financial best interest to default. He broke a contract. It is one thing to default if you simply cannot pay, and you are doing your best to pay. It is another issue entirely to stop paying a loan, simply because you want to use the money for something else. Does Benny Perez have a moral obligation to uphold his contract? I honestly do not know. It all comes down to how you view contracts. Are they simply financial transactions or is there an element of morality involved. Before the housing crisis, I would have argued that everyone should continue to honor their contracts with the bank as long as they could continue to pay the mortgage. However, after the housing crisis and seeing the way the banks behaved, I am beginning to believe that there is no moral aspect in dealing with banks. And of course, the $64,000 question is how long before City Bible Church files for bankruptcy. It may never happen, but I would almost guarantee that the discussion has been had.
City Business Church
It is not by grace that one enters the kingdom of heaven, but by tithing. – Damazio 3:16
Reading through the comments in the Charisma article, it appears that most people think Benny Perez should not have defaulted.
Great blog post. I hit the floor after reading this. I will give you my take on your questions.
I personally do not think that they are “breaking the contract” as the contract is only an agreement as it applies to the law. What they are doing is legal and bankruptcy was always known to both sides on the day they both signed the agreement. So it would seem to me that bankruptcy was if not spelled out into the contract was part of the contract from the day of signing. I (unlike you) am not an attorney but this is my view.
Morally: Well as the bankruptcy laws written are a moral biblical concept of financial grace I personally do not see being on the receiving end of that financial grace as a moral problem.
Hypocrisy: Here is why I hit the floor. Having heard Wendell (Benny’s former father-in-law) preach financial responsibility that contradicts my previous 2 statements on contracts and morality as it pertains to bankruptcy and financial ethics. I am just blown away (yet again) at the hypocrisy that over the years *City*Church/MFI (and I am sure Benny is no different) had been teaching (abusing) people over finances all while living large on the charity and generosity of the body would take such a blazing stand. The hypocrisy is what I find as sooooo immoral.
You are correct about this. I would argue that filing for bankruptcy is the legal method of breaking a contract. But we may be getting into semantics, here.
But yeah, when they entered into the contract, the bank always knew that default was a possibility. And the bank’s remedy for default was to take ownership of the property.
It is why I have a hard time believing that this was an immoral decision. That said, read the comments in that Charisma article, and a lot of people still strongly believe that you should “let your yes be yes, and your no be no”.
Right. I am curious what happened if someone made a “Faith Harvest” pledge and then a month later decided they did not want to give the money. I wonder if the church took that decision as a “business decision”.
Right. I am curious what happened if someone made a “Faith Harvest†pledge and then a month later decided they did not want to give the money. I wonder if the church took that decision as a “business decisionâ€.
Catalyst: I think its worse then this. After going through Wendell’s “Leadership” track I am sure you can imagine the heavy emphasis on financial ethics. Not to mention to work at the church you need a 600+ credit rating and yes they check your credit before they give you ANY title.
No grace, not a single option for it at City Church. Knowing how close these two churches worked together I can not believe that Perez’s church is much different.
Ha. I never took the Leadership track, so I’ll just take your word for it. But that sounds about right. Once again, it seems that the rules are only for the little people.
Throwing all the blame on the bank really shows me where Benny’s heart is in this situation. Nobody forced him to sink millions of dollars buying into one of the most overpriced real estate markets in the country right before the bottom fell out. Any real estate analyst could’ve warned him that area was ripe for a downturn, so I have a hard time finding much sympathy for his plight. He made that business decision of his own free will, and is now trying to shift the blame on the bank.
That said, he’s within his legal rights to declare Chapter 11, but good luck ever getting another loan until that falls off the church credit history. I’m sure he’ll complain that’s a spiritual thing too, but pastors really should learn the rules of the game before trying to run a church like a business. Capitalism is a dog eat dog system without a lot of room for grace.
I’m more disturbed by the hypocrisy and lack of personal responsibility or ownership that there is a financial issue. He seems to be skidding it and blaming the spiritual circumstances and the bank. Where’s integrity?
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Or blaming it on the congregation, because ultimately, they’re who provide that money… so even if he doesn’t say it, as someone watching from afar, I feel really bad for them… because it’s sort of implied. It’s their fault! They should be giving more! If they do, more lives will be reached, and the church won’t have to meet in a less than perfect building.
I would like to hear some of Benny’s messages to the church before they signed a contract to buy the property. Was God leading them to purchase it? Were the people encouraged to give because God wanted them to have the building and property? Was it just a bad business decision on Benny’s part. Maybe he should stick to pastoring and preaching and of course prayer.
Those MFI churches are steeped in financial judgment on people, damned if you don’t tithe or earn enough to pay the bills or don’t give a sizeable faith pledge and follow through with it, have to give to special offerings and camps and special speakers and conferences, must always be honest in business dealings, pay all your taxes and have a good budget and build up a savings account, and don’t operate via credit cards, don’t over-extend, pay off all debt, find something wise and profitable to invest in, give extra to your pastor and missions, etc. etc. etc.
What goes around comes around as in what you sow, so shall you reap. I think they are getting a dose of what us the little people have faced through the years when they treated us like dirt if we didn’t measure up. Now they are doing bankruptcy which if any of us did, we would’ve gotten a good bawling out by them, so kinda hard to feel sorry for them.
If a church has tax exempt status does that effect the bankruptcy issue in any way? Just curious.
what a crock….. wonder how hard he and his wifeee tightened their belts and took salary cuts, cut their housing allowance, etc…
“what a crock….. wonder how hard he and his wifeee tightened their belts and took salary cuts, cut their housing allowance, etc…”
I am sure the “independent board of directors” has given them a raise for their leadership through hard times
Because you know when you live off of charity make sure your income is equal to the top 10% of your congregation.
Not really. Legally, the biggest difference is a church is considered a charitable organization, so they can’t be forced into bankruptcy by creditors like a business can.
However, most creditors don’t want the PR image of picking on the house of God, so they’re usually willing to work with a church on modified payment plans to avoid bankruptcy. But in this case, why would the bank make a deal with an organization that appears to have the cash to continue making their loan payments but refuses to pay?
Doesn’t God say something about being a man of your word? Swaring to your own hurt and changing not?
Truth Seeker:
the Bible (Word of God = God) does say many “good” things in the old testament that is good moral and wise living. The problem I have with the very statement you make is it is the same judgmental, use the word of God to condemn (even if deserving), legalism that MFI/*.City.* churches invoke.
The truth is in my opinion that the very idea of bankruptcy is financial grace and I assure you I can pull scripture for scripture the morality of bankruptcy for every verse you can on financial responsibility. The very idea that we would hold judgement over them for doing a legal biblical move.
My issue is on the hypocrisy: jayjacque said it best:
“Those MFI churches are steeped in financial judgment on people, damned if you don’t tithe or earn enough to pay the bills or don’t give a sizeable faith pledge and follow through with it, have to give to special offerings and camps and special speakers and conferences, must always be honest in business dealings, pay all your taxes and have a good budget and build up a savings account, and don’t operate via credit cards, don’t over-extend, pay off all debt, find something wise and profitable to invest in, give extra to your pastor and missions, etc. etc. etc. ”
Then to have one of their own (Being that I am a recovering City Church member) Wendell’s Son-in-law no less …. to do this. It really is priceless and I am not “overjoyed” by the idea of the church going through financial problems but I am hopeful that this leads all the MFI doctrine churches to accept grace as gospel and not works. And to stop checking members credit records for titled positions .. People make mistakes God forgives shouldn’t the church?
All that said, they followed an unBiblical principle to buy a mega alter to the SR Pastor against God’s plan for what a church should be. They did it in debt and not on what was in their storehouse. They taught unBiblical doctrines of tithe to pay for these alters to the SR Pastor and man. Used unBiblical “Pastor Authority” to lord over the “flock” to justify holding salaries that only equal less then 10% of the congregations salaries.
Then after all that had the balls to tell other people who fell into financial difficult situations that they are not good enough to serve God, that God’s grace was not enough. They cast judgement from their high income positions never having to work for a living but living off of charity and the generosity of others and being so prideful that they hold that title and income not in humbleness but with a sense of entitlement.
So in closing – They judged others and held people back for doing this and now they are doing it. Its absolutely jaw dropping.
Someone, somewhere, is left holding the bag … the person who sold the property got their money – which the church agreed to pay. Hardly the bank’s fault that the church is upside down on their mortgage …
Why don’t they pray that God will “open the floodgates and pour out so much blessing they won’t be able to contain it” – after all, surely they preach that … isn’t declaring bankruptcy a kind of sign of no confidence in God’s intent / ability to fulfill His promise(s) of abundant blessings?
Someone, somewhere, is left holding the bag …
Yeah, it’s us Taxpayers who are left holding the bag.
And I think they are beginning to realize that even God doesn’t believe in the Prosperity Gospel.
We silly people… one of Benneee and Wendeee’s own shed the light… (comments from the Charisma article)
Could this be the reason that there is no examples of churches owning buildings & property or making the church into a business in the bible. Biblically believer’s helped to provide for the needs(necesities) of the saints who lacked, not the lavish lifestyles of the leaders that we see today. Isn’t prosperity supposed to start in the soul (3 john 2) not an outward front to emotionally manipulate covetious people into giving all they have to the “house”. Then when the economy tanks its labeled as a spiritual attack on the prosperity gospel in the american church. Or is God using this double-dip recession to open people’s eyes that money isn’t everything, and actually using it to draw people who seek truth to Himself. Do people actually think that in God’s Soveriegnty this happened by accident????? Or is God being merciful to our sin-filled nation and humbling our hedonistic/narsacistic generation???
Romans 13:8 …. Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.
Guess beneee and wendeee are taking it literally and filing bankruptcy to get out of debt…
http://www.christianpost.com/news/las-vegas-megachurch-fights-foreclosure-seeks-bankruptcy-52268/
What drugs are Benneee and his leadership and church on …. Wouldn’t EVERYBODY who is upside down on their mortgage love to have the bank lower the loan to the current worth of the property.
The article I read said they wanted to build another building with cash on the property that would increase the value by
4-5 million. But since the bank wouldn’t let them build cuz the property was so devalued, they decided to stop paying the mortgage May 1st. The only way to restructure a loan is to be delinquint. Looks like they thought if they stopped payin the mortgage & became delinquent that the bank would work with them & remodify their loan,, but instead the bank got word of what they were doing & filed a suit to foreclose immediately. So their plan backfired. Looks to me like their decisive plan was exposed for a reason.
This often works with residential homes, because the bank is only losing thousands of dollars. And they’d rather have someone in the home paying something, than the home just sitting empty through the foreclosure process where the banks is likely to get less anyway.
However, with The Church at South Las Vegas the bank is potentially losing millions of dollars. I suspect the bank has no interest in walking away from millions of dollars without a fight.
And I am very curious what impact the bankruptcy has on the church. Would you tithe to a church that had just filed bankruptcy? Because at that point, you really have no idea where the money is going. It could go to the church, but it could just as likely go to the church’s creditors.
Former NBCC Member-
How bout pinky swear and spit shake? I guess I am too old school and probably a little proud because I have worked my arse of keeping from forclosing on the 4 mortgages that I have right now. Benny lacks faith that God can provide all of his needs accord tho His riches. They should keep paying on the loan, it is what they agreed to. The real estate values will bounce back, their not making it(real estate) anymore. I also think the banks had a pretty good idea the economy was headed down. It is like parents giving keys to the car to their twelve year old hoping things work out. They are very good at what they do.
Monte, that’s not how I read the article you linked. From the article:
“The Las Vegas church didn’t know about its “upside-down†mortgage until it received an appraisal of the property while planning to construct a new worship center. Church attorneys said they tried to negotiate with the bank to reduce the principal down to $2.5 million after they discovered the property’s true value, but the bank refused.”
My conclusion from that was the church didn’t act on changing the mortgage until they got an appraisal of the property while in the process of building their worship center. When they went to the bank to renegotiate their loan principal, the bank refused. However, why would that stop them from building the worship center? Didn’t they have money set aside for constructing their worship center while still paying their mortgage? It sounds to me like they either needed another bank loan for their new building or they knew their mortgage was upside down and were planning to use the savings from renegotiating their mortgage towards the new building.
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“At that point, we had to look and say that we cannot expand because of the situation that we are in. The bank is not letting us build [the new worship center] with CASH. We have a $53,000 a month mortgage that we’ve been making,†Perez said.
“We knew that if we built that building it would solve the upside-down situation, because we would be improving our property and it would add $4 to $5 MILLION worth of equity,†Perez maintained, “Which is a GIFT to the bank. [But] the bank refused.â€
Why would the bank even consider reducing the principal when they were making the payments? They wouldn’t thats why they stopped making the payments to become delinquent, in order to try & make the bank remodify their loan. As catylist said that might work on a home, but not a multi-million dollar property especially when the bank knew exactly what they were trying to do by intentionally defaulting on their mortgage payments. If the church presented to do the improvments of 4-5 million worth of equity as a gift (as quoted by Perez in the article) to solve the upside down situation, but the bank rejected it cuz it would make more sense to have them put that 4-5 million towards their loan they already have and pay it off, then they could do whatever they wanted with the property in the future. That would be the right thing to do if they already had the money. But when ya don’t want to wait to raise more money in this fast-food society we live in thats what happens.
Remember, we are not dealing with a situation where they don’t have the money, they actually have the money(or had the money) depending on what happens in bankruptcy court. What most people do that I have heard of is buy another property in another name, and move anything they don’t want to loose in the bankruptcy to someone elses name, then file. But that’s not rite either. Maybe that was plan B, but they didn’t get that far.
The kicker to me is that by not paying the mortgage they thought it would make the bank have to remodify their loan, but instead the bank filed a suit & started foreclosure & didn’t play their game. Pretty smart on the banks part in my opinion. Why should the bankk have to eat those millions of dollars.
What the church should have done was sowed a faith-seed of $130,000 to CCC, and then when they got their 100 fold return of $13 million they could have paid off their upside down mortage of $7.6 million & build their new $5 million worship center debt free & have some money in the bank. That sounds like the prosperity gospel I hear preached in America today. How come everyone doesn’t just do that?(extra sarcasm applied) then we wouldn’t be in the recession we are in rite now.
I got saved in a prosperity gospel so I know all those manipulative greed tactics that churches & tv scammers use. The Lord has been faithful to bring me through all that false doctrine into TRUTH, PRAISE HIS NAME!!
My other question tho is that First Bank is named as the largest creditor, but who else is The Church of Las Vegas in debt to???????? And what else do we not know that is being covered up?????
That would be a good question for Pastor Perez. Another good one would be “Why are you declaring bankruptcy when you have capital on hand for more buildings?”
Yes! Love it. That is what they should have done.
Would be lovely if the bank that loaned them the cheese for the church was the same bank that held their savings account and could freeze their assets …
Another more current article quotes the chief financial officer:
“Given the vast differences between the outstanding principal balance of the note and the present value of the Seven Hills Campus and the source of funding as voluntary donations of church members, it is simply impossible for the church to continue to sustain the monthly note payments,†the church’s chief financial officer, Deborah Whittington, said in a court declaration.
Whittington said the church has taken in a monthly average of more than $356,000 in member donations during the first six months of 2011, but spends $321,000 per month on payroll and other expenses, leaving only $32,000 for the $52,000 mortgage payment.
You read it right an average of $356,000 amonth taken in & $321,000 per month in PAYROLL & “OTHER” expenses. And the mortgage isn’t even part of the “OTHER”.
Also in the article:
In its filings, the church reported $963,000 in the bank, but of that, almost $647,000 were member donations designated for church expansion, and the rest is committed to church operations, the day care and next year’s Easter service.
I like what 1 Peter 4:17 has to say:
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God’s household. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God’s Good News?
If what is happening is not judgement then I don’t know what is!
Its a good thing we’re looking into this situation because if you go to Benny’s latest Twitters he’s been playing some golf over in Hawaii and having some family bonding time. Oh and attending a Conference of course.
I would say that is a tax deduction but these folks don’t pay taxes – am I right?
Ah lifestyles of the rich pastors is so fun to twitter on.
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When finances are tight, my family stays home or does “stay-cations”. Why can’t the “elite” do that too?
I remember Benny from his old church up in Marysville, WA– I used to make the trek from Seattle every once in a while (back in high school, so it was whenever we could get a car in our possession). It was quite an awesome place, In fact, they used to pack it so tight for the youth night that you could see the balcony girders straining from the load (no bueno, from a safety perspective!).
Though I am perhaps the naysaying atheist on here (one of two, that I know of), I will say that I feel it was unfortunate that Benny left that church, married into the mafia, and moved to Las Vegas. He had a really good thing going up here, and it seemed more genuine (at the time) than most churches I had been to up until that point (I don’t know how much you take in off of high schoolers’ tithes, but it ain’t much, which makes me assume he had a genuine thing going). Once he started getting write-ups in Charisma, etc., it was only a matter of time until he cashed in his chips and moved to greener pastures (way too many money, Vegas puns in one sentence…).
Regardless of what happens in this situation, I assume he’ll be back raking in money sooner rather than later. When it comes down to it, I assume churches are somewhat like an LLC, and you could probably dissolve and reappear down the road as the same church, different name (but I ain’t no lawyer, so I have no idear abouts thems kindsa thangs).
Regardless, if he is off playing golf in Hawaii then he isn’t too stressed about it– I hope the part of his congregation that are upside down on their mortgages are as lucky.
Most recent article I’ve found from 8/11
Gotta comet on these couple of quotes by the banks attorney’s:
“It is unfortunate that rather than honoring its commitments, the debtor seeks to retain cash for future expansion at the expense of paying creditor claims,” the bank attorneys said in a court filing.
Aren’t we supposed to have different standards then the world, it’s decisions like this that make christians look like hypocrites to the lost.
“The parties contemplated, the (church) board authorized and the loan documents expressly provide for all income, including without limitation, tithings, pledges, gifts, commitments and givings, and the accounts into which those funds are deposited, to constitute the collateral of the bank,” said the filing for the bank by attorneys with the Las Vegas law firm Santoro, Driggs, Walch, Kearney, Holley & Thompson.
Looks like the bank pretty much covered every avenue of the churches finances, anyone wanna bet this isn’t the first time this kinda thang has happened.
You mean the bank isn't just going to roll over and let the church walk away from its loan? Shocking.
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Great observations of what the money is “spent” on and as usual the salaries (which I m sure the pastor s is off the top) is what is killing these churches today! Where is the money set aside to help the communities, poor, widows? Where are the churches “in” these communities? There are churches on every other corner and the more money they take in the more money they use for the “benefit” of the pastors, their families and their “zombies” on payroll! And once you give them your money they are the ones that have the say so as to how and what it is spent on! These institutionalized churches of today are nothing more than “cash cows” set up to look-like a church. They are “storehouses” all right for the “greedy” by taking advantage of and preying on the people and having no sypmpathy or compassion for the “needy”…Thank you for that scripture it won t be long God getting tired of people “playing” church when he returns he aint going to join in and more of us need to hit them where it really hurts and stop supporting this non-sense going on inside of so many of these “pimping” pulpits!!!!
It’s a shame some pastors have so much autonomy and so little financial accountability that a bank or government has to give them a wake up call like this. Hopefully, other churches will learn from this situation and clean up their own finances instead of waiting for the world to do it for them.
Here is another thought….. the pastor may not have gotten the response he wanted because of the way he asked/demanded! Pastors have such a mentality of using “scare” tactics to compel followers to do what he wants done! The entire time Jesus was on this earth he was humble and he had much compassion for the people!! He only showed his anger with the people when they were using HIS Father s house (Temple) to sell and make profits!!! And I am sure a lot of them were swindling people and over pricing their merchandise for their own personal gain! Pastors seem to take advantage of their followers by using their position to degrade and belittle. They demand your time and your money but most are not held accountable for their own actions and or reactions…..so Mr Pastor it may not have been what you were asking them to do that was the problem BUT how you asked them…………….
The sheep need to wake up and demand openness in all things financial or stop giving and being poor stewards of their resources. Whose money is it anyway! It is God’s money and full disclosure on all finances including balance statements, break down of payroll etc……, is only what should be expecteded. If they are going to preach the tithe with their big twist on it they selectively cherry pick the verses that fit their agenda.
How about we all practice Deut 14″You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there,(M) you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil,(N) and the firstborn of your herd and flock,(O) that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because(P) the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 25then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses 26and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And(Q) you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27And you shall not neglect(R) the Levite who is within your towns, for(S) he has no portion or inheritance with you.
Never heard anyone preach this! Haha. SPEND THE MONEY ON WHATEVER YOU DESIRE!
A local Holy Roller Pastor JG of a mega church now gone to visit the Big Man in the Sky had the ushers block the exits while the offering buckets were passed around for a third time. Seems like he ignored the multitude of counselors who saw his future television ministry going down in flames–but, I guess he had a different vision–perhaps the congregation bailing out everyone of his errant desires.
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That sripture has been preached…. only at pastor’s conventions, cuz they do spend the money on whatever they want…lol…not so funny tho, its actually realy sad
CJ I like what ya said:
Thank you for that scripture it won t be long God getting tired of people “playing†church when he returns he aint going to join in and more of us need to hit them where it really hurts and stop supporting this non-sense going on inside of so many of these “pimping†pulpits!!!!
Reminds me of a shirt I have from a street ministry outa Sacramento, CA that says “The devils a PIMP, don’t be his HO” I alwayz get a lota people lookin at me sidewayz when I wear it, but its a good analogy. I should redo the shirt to say “your pastors a PIMP, don’t be his HO”
LOL! Good luck with THAT! Benny most likely requires seed money sewn to HIM! But then again, the last time Ken W twittered (on May 28) he had just spoken at what he calls “the greatest church in Las Vegas pastored by @bennyperez and @wendyperez.” We can only guess they gave him a healthy honorarium for that but then strongly urged HIM sew seed into their hidden fund so he too could be blessed!
Did anyone else get what seemed like a virus – or a security threat – when clicking the text that linked to TomRhoades.com on that additional article about the Benny Bankruptcy?
For some reason I decided to see the full article so I clicked the text and when I got there, a security window opened with a logo that mimicked the microsoft windows logo saying my computer was infected with a child porn (!) virus and started a security scan (that I didn’t ask for). So I had to enlist the help of our IT guy because it was saying that it was attaching itself to my computer profile. It turned out to be a rogue phishing link. He got it off my computer but only after he did a complete scan with OUR security software to find out where it ended up and to make sure it didn’t get into our work network!
Quite a scare though and quite the time vortex. . . sigh.
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Does anyone in his church even wonder WHY there is a problem with the finances?? Benny’s attitude is so arrogant and sociopathic.
Same question for CCC – why should anyone give one more offering to get them out of hot water if it’s obvious that the entire family staff needs to limit their travel budget. Even if they made just Tracy stay home for the rest of 2011 that would give them the first $10,000 installment Ken so desperately needs within the next 10 weeks!!
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I didn’t have anything pop up, it just went to it. That’s crazy!
And if Barack made Michelle stay home for the rest of 2011, how much would that save the tax-payers? Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
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Good one Anna!
The BSU Season has just started which means its time for another round of trips for the whole family from Capital Christian Center. It was so fun to read and watch the Senior Pastor and clan attend games in all the good cities last year. Wow – just to hear about their fabulous seats was such a blessing to everyone in the congregation.
It really fills a void when you can’t afford to travel if you can read about your Senior Pastor’s family still getting to take the whole group on extended vacations throughout the year. Members are losing their homes, but what’s that in comparison with getting to hear about those great seats you got near the 50 yard line. No matter where the game was being played from Washington D.C. to Phoenix at least some members of your family were there praying for our team. What a relief!
We’ll be watching for you in Atlanta this weekend. We see your good friend Ken Holsinger is already twittering that he is on his way. Amazing how he found time after exhorting the people in the church to clean the toilets now that there isn’t money left to maintain the building. Oh well what are those trials when the Blue & Orange await.
We just hope you included that amount in the ‘We need $ $500,00.00 in 13 weeks or else’ offering. Its so fun to live vicariously through your lives. Can’t wait – go Boise State!
Love the post! But! Is it sarcastic, sardonic, or facetious? I can never keep those 3 straight!
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Is there an unspoken rule of blogging we don’t know about that says you can only be one of those at a time?
Just asking, since you brought it up
Hahaha!
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I feel this with you Freeatlast. This has been especially hard to watch from the sidelines of life when we remember the years we were giving up our normal lives for ministry at Capital and it was frowned upon to miss church meetings and such for a BSU football game. Not to mention Ken was notorious for scheduling some kind of church function on big game days, even when the entire rest of the country wanted to watch the super bowl! The former prayer pastor, whom we teasingly dubbed Mr Recreation, was really into all things football and was often treated like he wasn’t as spiritual because he wanted to go to a game or something. So the fact that Ken Wilde has turned into such a BSU fan (now that BSU has made a name for itself) is so ironic. We can just add that to the growing list of ironies that we may blog for you someday, (but only if you are nice to us).
That being said, I’m not seeing hard evidence that The Clan has the Atlanta trip planned, but we shall see. Ken Holsinger is no longer employed at CCC as far as we know so going to Atlanta isn’t on the church’s dime. But like Free suggests, if airfares and season passes for each member of the clan has been purchased with tithe money, we aren’t just being snarky when we blog it publically. We’ve watched them brag about their nifty seats for the last few years now while we’ve stayed home to pay our bills on time. Too bad we don’t have a church full of tithers to send us to all the games, but alas, we gave that all up when we walked out the door. Not that secondary pastors and staff members were honored with frivilous trips, those were for the special pastors.
Captial Christian Center being a public institution that is benefitting from tax exempt status is supposed to be making their financial records publically available therefore trips to various football games in other states should be listed (wonder under what ministry heading would that be?). And if they do all make the cross country trip today after Ken’s recent audacious plea for $500,000.00 to be paid for by the tithers, then that is completely wrong. I don’t know, maybe they aren’t that stupid. But like Free says, we shall see.
Hi Scrupe, All of the above really! It just comes over me when I type!
There is something about writing about them that screams for sarcasm because they are so clueless that they aren’t the Royal Family living on an income from the Duchy.
See there I go again!
Thanks for adding some info DeTox – you are always spot on with the details and personal stories. We haven’t even begun to open up the treasure trove of stories while they are pleading for money this week.
It was Ken Wilde who spoke out at the scared assembly recently -on line – that his son in law Mark Francey is a Chaplain to BSU for the games sometimes and will be the guest Chaplain at the Atlanta game – I’m just guessing they or at least he will have to be there in person. And someone has to pay the bills.
They also noted that they feel they won the Virginia Tech game last year in Washington D.C. when the family was really posting away and showing their deluxe seats that it was because of their prayers. Of course on site with the whole family. Just sayin what they spout off.
With the advent of the internet organizations who have been on a free dime are finally coming to realize that they may just have to be accountable to those who they plead for money to for other designated purposes.
Isn’t it awful? The truth may actually be known. These sheep aren’t as dumb as they think. We may not always have the facts straight because who can ever know them even when you are “on staff’” or The Help as we now liked to be called.
Call this a latent reaction after giving them so much tithe money!
That’s what I get for not watching the vid – but you know how hard it is for me to look at him long enough to hear anything. And I know how hard it is for you and to think you were able to watch the whole thing! But your investigative nose won out – HA!
Great, just what Mark needs is another reason to add to his evolving smugness attitude. So if he is the guest chaplain we should be seeing something other than football about the Atlanta game then – unless we lose of course! But if BSU wins it will certainly be bcz of Mark’s prayers.
Yes, what was that line you text the other day: ‘it a comin, our story in full reveal’!
Why do you need a chaplain at a football game?
On his twitter/facebook account this weekend, Benny Perez said the following… “Make your Labor Day Weekend special by being in church. Special surprise for u. See u tonight and tomorrow. Going to be powerful!”
Wonder what it’s going to be… anyone know what the special surprise was?
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It’s just the most spiritual way they can say the team invites a different pastor to come and pray for the team each game. I don’t know how it got started…
It turns out that Mark F. stayed in Boise with the rest of The Clan except for Tracy who of course fly out there. Maybe the prayer person turned out to be Bob, the pastor from Calvary Boise who doesn’t go by the title Pastor Bob. (He went to Atlanta to the game but I heard that he uses his personal checking account that doesn’t include tithe money but could be from an inheritance)
In case anyone cares, BSU did win, but I’m sure it’s bcz of the great coaching staff and the talent of the players who qualified to go. They just methodically played football. (3 of BSUs starters had to stay in Boise bcz they didn’t qualify.) Not saying prayer doesn’t help, but I’m sure the other side prayed to God with the same fervor and such. And according to the Bible, God isn’t prone to show favoritism.
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All i could see is they are giving away 4-book bundles if ppl sign up for their conference. Maybe it has something to do with Wendy being barefoot at Costco?
This is a little off topic, but Boise State is in a really good position to get to the National Championship this year. They should win the rest of their games, and I think all the other major conference teams likely lose a couple games during the course of the season. And unlike Oregon, Boise State actually wins big football games.
That said, I would like BSU a lot more if they didn’t have that blue field. High-quality football programs don’t need gimmicks to win. And BSU is clearly a quality football program.
Also, I’d like them more if they didn’t continue to beat up on my Oregon teams.
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Oh Boy! I wish I could go! *dripping in sarcasm*
Detox: I am uninterested in Twitter. But I tried to read the Wendy’s tweets. The poor thing. No a/c in Honolulu. At church early with nails done and an Ipad. I’m sure the people in her congregation wish they had such troubles.
And this is American Christianity? Save us.
That sums up the questions we’re asking on here about lifestyles of the Rich and Pastoral. When the church is so much like the world resembling a tv reality show – where can the people find any escape?
From taking constant vacations with their families, to living large in their crypts to buying Stella McCarthy baby clothes on their blogs, we are having a hard time telling them apart from MTV & VH1.
Anna, you just don’t understand her #firstworldpastorproblems.
I do pity her because she’ll have no way to cope if she ever encounters real suffering. If she and her husband don’t right their financial ship, she may see some sooner than she thinks.
Cat, Boise wins the big games, but they have trouble handling the 9-10 cupcakes they play every year. Wouldn’t surprise me to see them stumble again.
Agree that the church body should be much more responsive to the finances within the body of believers they gather with. When I was younger I always had a check in my spirit of those that preached the tithe knowing it wasn’t quite right.
As I looked into the Word all the more I saw how verses were cherry picked to serve themselves and their own personal ministry. Try telling them that if they were to follow the ‘letter of the Law’ then shouldn’t own homes or land. It all falls apart. There was a nice little page I saw recently that explained it quite well.
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_church_and_tithing.html
I brought it up to one of the elders in the body where I attend and the only response he gave me via email was, “Thanks for the interest for this topic. I find it encouraging.” He then went on to say that it was nice getting to know my family, etc. Total avoidance.
I like the passage in Deut 14. Nice one. What I got out of it was that people were to (under the old covenant) set a tithe aside for the Lord of goods, etc., travel to the determined Holy place and then consume it there. It seems that it was to not only honor God, but to remember who he was to them. And if they weren’t able to do that because they were too far from the determined Holy place, then they should sell a 10th of what we have and get money for it, then go to the holy place and buy those animals, etc. (this is what Jesus was so upset about) to consume them there. Oh yeah, and the passage says that they were to ENJOY it. And why? “In this way you will learn to live in deep reverence before God, your God, as long as you live.” That’s it. Amen, amen and amen. Does anyone see in this where the tithe ever enters the hands of anyone else?
Yes, the passage after this talks about remembering the Levites (who were by commandment to own no land and had no inheritance like everyone else) by taking an ADDITIONAL tithe EVERY 3 years, which also helped to support foreigners, the orphans, and the widows. So, tell me I’m wrong but when you do the math, it’s 3.3% averaged (per year) that goes to the people group that served in the temple (uhh, we’re the temple now), BUT, also goes to the others mentioned.
To those that HOLD to the tithing false doctrine I say this – perhaps the reason Benny’s ministry, and many others are suffering, is because they are robbing the people and asking for 3 times as much as is commanded. Oh, and don’t forget that they might also be suffering if they happen to own any land.
Okay… it’s a little over the top I know (yes, it’s on purpose to make a point), but before you click onto another page take in to account Matthew 7:15-16, where Jesus himself said, “Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don’t be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned.” (LIV).
Is that smoke I smell?
Got carried away there with the rest of the passage… that was Matthew 7:15-20.
[Comment ID #42243 Will Be Quoted Here]Good post NIE! As many of us have found, just reading the Word of God will set you free from the plundering pastors of our time.
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Sorry didn’t see this earlier Cat! Well, the blue field has been around since 1986 before the Broncos experienced their current notoriety under Coach Pete. So maybe we did need a gimic then – but I agree we no longer need it now, but it’d cost bucks to change it.
Sigh. Bronco fans still gnash their teeth in remembrance of a certain kicker (whom I won’t mention by name since he is supposed to be forgiven) cost us a chance at the Rose Bowl last year.
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But Anna, twitter can be a treasure trove of information for inquiring minds! And it certainly appeals to those who love to swim in the shallow end as you have witnessed by checking out Wendy’s.
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Next they’ll all be getting plastic surgery! Speaking of, Freeatlast, didn’t you just tell me about a pastor wife who thinks it’s good to get plastic surgery? Who was that? and is it trending now in the prosperity gospel elite circles?
Apparently they don’t take the Eccl. scripture about all is vanity to heart!
Amazing Vid on Prosperity Gospel
Great vids on pastors & sheep I wanted to share. They are the sames ones from the coh thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgJoKQyeSRQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFcJ1EQkww&feature=related
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We’ve posted this video a couple times on this site. And it is definitely my favorite. May have to post it again.
Detox, sorry to dredge up bad memories. I’m an Oregon State fan, so I can sympathize because we had our own *#$#$^% kicker game against LSU when he missed 3 extra points in a close loss. Good luck against Toledo tonight.
I don’t have a problem with the blue field as long as Boise isn’t wearing the blue uniforms that blend into it and make them hard to see. Gimmicks are almost mandatory these days to help a non-traditional power school set themselves apart from the other hundreds of schools. To me, it’s the same thing as the Ducks and their crazy uniforms.
I just want to know one thing: Since they will obviously NOT be building the “New Building/Church” which they state they collected all of these funds for, and the congregation gave in good faith, Don’t they have to return those “designated funds” back to the Givers? It seems that they knew well in advance that they would not be able to build, yet they continued to solicit funds for the “I AM THE CHURCH” then the “Expansion/Building fund”, then “Kingdom First” then the “Wendell Smith Auditorium”…Where is that money going now? It seems that it should at a minimum be offered back to the “Givers” that Benny Perez strongly encouraged all to give, even after they obviously knew that they were not going to be able to build… That IS the RIGHT thing to do after all…
ALSO…Since we are going to split fine hairs here, what about the fact that TCSLV has now decided to create a new outreach program called: IMPACTLV which now holds the funds for the Destiny House (which btw Benny & Wendy Perez own under the name of “Perez Family Revocable Trust”). That is another issue altogether…They claim that they “Donated” the house to help rescue women being sex trafficked. The reality is that they actually occassionaly donate the USE OF the house, when they are not having INTERNS pay to live there…At any rate, IMPACTLV is now a seperate entity under Pacesetters International aka Benny Perez Ministries. Now that they are going into foreclosure and possible bankruptcy the funds they collect for that can not be taken by the Lender, can they? They created this new “Ministry” to say look what we are doing in our community. The bank (not local according to them) is the bad guy in all of this. So this begs the question isn’t this also just WRONG?
1. They knew they were not going to pay the mortgage, yet accepted tithes/offerings for the building fund for at least a year or more.
2. They knew the Destiny House was not occupied, so they moved Interns in so the Interns could pay their mortgage on their personal property, all the while continuing to solicit funds for months from the congregation, week after week for the Desting House, knowing there were no Rescued Sex Trafficked victims living there.
3. They state that they are filing a strategic bankruptcy, yet they have the funds they just choose not to pay their mortgage.
None of this is Biblical…it is called FRAUD and punishable by law…
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Exactly what we wonder too! According to Twitter BP is ‘feeling the spiritual surge in Hawaii’ with other prosperity driven ‘pastors’, so apparently some of that money is being spend trips for himself and his wife.
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I can’t follow him on twitter, makes me want to puke…Spiritual abuse of his congregation is a special sin, I’m pretty sure…
Just to clarify I don’t ‘follow’ him on Twitter either, but their twitters are a trove of info when needed….
Why would Benny Perez say this?… the verse confuses me in the context.
Our meeting starts at 1:30 my time today. We r meeting with the bank at their request. Praying I Peter 3:9. Thanks friends RT to others
6 Oct
to quote a TV show… “Could it be……..SATAN?”
He might be thinking that they (the church people) must only say / pray nice things about the bank — who is their “enemy” — so that they (the church people) will inherit a blessing — which in their minds means monetary wealth.
?? maybe ??
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I think you said it perfectly. But the verse still seems to me to have NOTHING to do with what’s going on… is that more often the case than not? Didn’t used to realize that, but it is SO apparent these days.
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The funds if not used are going to be returned to the givers. IF you are a regular you would know this.
Not too hard to understand why the “regular” members might be suspicious about the churches intentions, what with them stiffing the bank on the money they borrowed …
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Yes. And how much do you want to bet that ALL the funds are used.
One thing I’ve learned about God is that He knows how to spend money.
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Hmmm, I don’t recall any mention of money being returned to the givers in the article written in that national Christian publication called Charisma Magazine (the link at the top of this thread). If that was the case why didn’t Benny emphasize it?
I wonder if Benny Perez tried to get a photo op with President Obama when he was in Vegas the other day? Perhaps the Prez would be sympathetic to Benny’s plight. But I guess we’d know this too – IF we were regulars that is.
I just found an article about the foreclosure process for cslv, it has some pretty interesting details,
http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/dec/08/bankrupt-church-south-las-vegas-settles-lender/
“Within 45 days the church will provide First Bank with evidence that one half of the settlement amount has been raised or pledged. If it fails to meet this 45-day milestone, or doesn’t make the settlement payment within 90 days, the escrowed funds will be released to First Bank.”
I bet it’s nice to run a business where you can just guilt your customers into paying more. Benny Boy knows he can just turn to his church and say “Well…either you pay or we lose everything”.
People will leave his church, they will get a lot more bad publicity, and still easily raise the money. Too many christians are dumb dumb sheep.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PIg_viilqac
this is from his facebook page.. bragging about being out of bankruptcy… so did they pay up ?
Well that was interesting. Why is it when you listen to someone in the prosperity DRIVEN circles you get the feeling they have the corner on favor from God. There’s always the feeling you are on the outside of God’s favor looking in. But when I read verses like the following, they are the ones who come to mind. They live off of the abundance of God’s house and brag about their continual feast rather than recognize it for what it really is – misuse of what should be designated funds.
Psalm 36: 1-4 (of David)
“1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked:
There is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes,
When he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit;
He has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4 He devises wickedness on his bed;
He sets himself in a way that is not good;
He does not abhor evil.”