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Archive for the 'Abortion' Category

WHAT’S RIGHT?

Posted on January 10th, 2009 by joebib into the Politics, joebib writes, Abortion category

A couple of days ago, I posted some questions to facilitate discussion about the persecution and killing of Jews in Nazi Germany and Europe before and during WW2 in a post entitled, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Which questions were in turn born out of a previous thread concerning the killing of babies in the womb entitled, Pro-Life & In favor of Keeping Abortion Legal.

In that Pro-Life thread a number of interesting points/opinions, implicit as well as explicit came up…. 

1) it's not Government's role to regulate morality,  

2) Christians have no business getting involved in political processes,   

3) abortion is already legalized and thus is a moot point,  

4) Christians are not responsible for what is done as a whole in an unbiblical society,  

5) too many of the Republicans and the Religious Right have already muddied the waters for useful action, 

6) after more than 30 years of Roe vs. Wade, who really cares? 

….and the like.  

None of which notions hold water IMO. And so I ended up positing that — in both society as a whole and among Believers in Jesus — to reject the one (the killing of Jews) and embrace the other (the aborting of babies) is tantamount to not only apathy, but also hypocrisy. 

And it seems to me that decrying the killing of Jews in WW2 while accepting the legalized killing of babies in America since 1973 is not the only incongruity we have in society.

There are other “hot” topics which have fomented their way to the surface of politically correct dialogue, like:   

1) the wrongness of male chauvinism 

2) the need for women’s suffrage and rights

3) the evil of past injustices to racial/ethnic groups, 

4) with the resultant attitudes of entitlement by other racial/ethnic groups

5) the folly of a disregard for, and mistreatment of the environment

6) how the inhumane treatment of animals is wrong

7) the wrongness of bias against homosexuality/lesbianism.   

So what we have is the fact that some things are obviously right or moral to one group of people, and those same things can be considered wrong or immoral to a 2nd group. And visa versa. 

For stance, tomorrow I could attend a predominantly African-American local church and use the so-called “N” word several times in conversation, and I’d probably not make it out of there alive. And yet, I could also say I believe in abortion and would probably experience little opposition, much less physical violence. 

And then, I could jump on a plane and attend a church in the so- called "Bible Belt" that evening populated by predominantly white farmers, and if I were to use said “N” word, I would probably get congratulated, while remarks supporting abortion would probably be disdained. 

So my question is, who — or what’s — to say what’s right and what’s wrong?  

Why is one thing deemed to be wrong or immoral while another is not?  

 -joe   

P.S. If my hypothetical scenario offends, I apologize ahead of time to any African-Americans, or farmers (sorry bout that 'Scrupe! Wink ) who may read this.

If you really hate abortion…

Posted on October 26th, 2008 by Reformed Pope into the Uncategorized, Abortion category

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." — John Quincy Adams

Help me out here all you die hard "Pro-Life" "Anti-Abortion" Christians…why is it that you spout on about overturning Roe vs Wade and then say you will be voting for McCain? Clearly, Chuck Baldwin cares far more about saving unborn babies lives than John McCain?

I really need an answer to this? Especially all of you in Oregon…voting for McCain in Oregon is wasting your vote, Obama's got this state locked up for the next 8 years.

So, Anti-Abortion Christian's of AMERICA…this is your candidate…this is your vote:

Chuck Baldwin

"I will use the bully pulpit of the Presidency to demand that Congress enact Dr. Ron Paul's Sanctity of Life Act which would set forth that every unborn child is a 'person' under the Constitution, entitled to equal protection of the law and therefore, no unborn child could be killed without due process of law."

 

Chuck Baldwin

 

The Meaning of ‘Life’

Posted on October 24th, 2008 by The Reformer into the Abortion category

I just found this article on Larry A's facebook page.  It is so right on and describes my thoughts so well, I had to post it.  Some highlights:

“Since about 2005 we have seen a sharp decline in the number of people calling themselves Republicans,” reported Scott Keeter, director of survey research at the Pew Research Center, based on surveys released in early September. “Evangelical voters have displayed a great deal of dissatisfaction with the current state of things, including the Republican Party,” said John C. Green, senior fellow in religion and American politics at the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

To get a better picture of how evangelical views are changing, Sojourners interviewed 21 people from nine cities—including Seattle; Columbus, Ohio; Boston; Leawood, Kansas; Atlanta; Houston; Pittsburgh, and Boise, Idaho—representing six different ethnicities and ranging from ages 26 to 66. The conversations suggested a significant shift in evangelical viewpoint—a transformation with the potential to shake up not only political assumptions but the very face of evangelicalism in the years to come.

Many evangelicals, especially among those born since the 1970s, are coming to understand “pro-life” in broader ways, and the impact of that new perspective remains to be seen. As Time Magazine’s Amy Sullivan put it in early September, “While Palin is inspiring rhapsodies from the lions of the Christian right, her appeal to more moderate and younger evangelicals—as well as independent swing voters—may be limited.”

For instance, a self-described anti-abortion evangelical commenting on “Jesus Creed,” a leading blog of the emergent church, wrote that policies that fight poverty, work for health-care justice, and generally improve economic conditions for poor and working-class people will likely result in the number of abortions decreasing much more than under an administration that simply declares itself opposed to Roe vs. Wade—and thus supporting the former initiatives should arguably be considered more “pro-life” than the latter.

For some evangelicals, even those who consider themselves strongly pro-life, the issue of abortion doesn’t have a lot of influence on how they vote in presidential elections. For example, Bo Lim, a member of Quest Church in Seattle, said that abortion, along with several other moral concerns, “don’t rise to the top of my list of issues in regard to the election because of the limited role the president or our government can do in regard to these issues.”

Evangelicals across the country tell stories of their own transformation from a narrow concern for one or two issues to a broader understanding of the Christian call. Eugene Cho in many ways exemplifies these “new evangelicals.” "Personally, I don’t want to be defined by one or two issues,” Cho says. “Obviously two of the bigger issues that are highlighted by certain groups of the Christian segment are gay marriage and abortion. And while I acknowledge that they are important to me, I simply don’t elevate them over other issues. I must juxtapose them with the war in Iraq, local and global poverty, and human rights.”

That opinion is shared by Rich Nathan, pastor of Vineyard Church of Columbus in Columbus, Ohio, and host of last spring’s Justice Revival, co-sponsored by Sojourners. As the pastor of one of the largest churches in the Vineyard movement, with more than 6,500 members, Nathan considers the importance of the sanctity of life and the “least of these” when thinking about the upcoming elections. “I believe that the measure of a culture is how we treat the weakest person in the culture, the most defenseless,” Nathan says. As a result, a serious abortion-reduction plan remains one of the most important issues for Nathan as he decides whom to vote for in November. But the weakest and most defenseless people in a culture do not only include unborn children, Nathan says. “God is always on the side of the marginalized, the people who are the weakest and poorest. That includes the unborn and their mothers, but it also includes people who lack health insurance and folks who can’t find jobs in a global economy. It includes children and women who are being trafficked into sex slavery, and it includes the people of Darfur,” Nathan told Sojourners.

Support for the sanctity of life affects the views of many evangelicals on the Iraq war. That’s the case for Sokol Haxhi­nasto, a member of Park Street Church, a historic evangelical church in Boston, founded in 1809, where William Lloyd Gar­rison delivered his first major public address against slavery. Since 2003, Haxhinasto has been dismayed by America’s presence in Iraq. “From the Christian point of view, the war does not send a message of loving your enemies,” Haxhinasto, a doctoral student at Harvard Medical School, told Sojourners. “The war is certainly not pro-life, and so I wonder, how can you be pro-life on abortion and then go into a war that isn’t pro-life?”

Considering oneself a citizen of the world, as Nathan says, has compelled many evangelicals to also view the environment as an important issue for the upcoming election—an issue that has, until recently, been largely considered a “liberal” cause. For many evangelicals, caring for the creation is inextricably linked to God’s mandate to Adam and Eve in Genesis.

“Creation care has certainly grown to become an issue of greater importance for me, more so than previous elections,” says Jason Chatraw, a member of Vineyard Boise church in Boise, Idaho, “but it has for every candidate in every local, state, and national election—which I believe is a good thing and probably a result of the growing number of evangelicals involved in this movement.”

Tri Robinson, pastor of Vineyard Boise, began to see environmental matters in a new light after an eventful conversation with his two young-adult children. “They came to me and said, as Christians, they had nobody to vote for,” Robinson remembers. “On the one hand, they would have to vote against the sanctity of life, and on the other hand, they would have to vote against caring for the environment.” This conversation launched Robinson into a deep and careful look into the scriptures, where he was surprised to find an overwhelming call from God for creation care. This led to his writing several books about the Christian call to creation care, including Saving God’s Green Earth: Rediscovering the Church’s Responsibility to Environ­mental Stewardship.

Robinson represents many of the new evangelical voters who are coming out of their conservative traditions and challenging themselves to see the world in a different way—as a world where one issue is connected to another through a series of systems. The fragile environment contributes to a broken economic system that creates a society of haves and have-nots. The resulting injustice is what is compelling most, if not all, of these new evangelical voters to look beyond wedge issues to fight for the rights of all people.

Finally, I realize I am not alone.  Thanks Larry.

Why the Democratic Party is the Pro-life party.

Posted on October 20th, 2008 by catalyst into the Abortion category

I wrote this in response to a comment, but it was so good that I thought I would make it a post.


Mrs J on October 20, 2008 at 11:07 am said:

5. Obama is the most pro abortion candidate to ever be nominated for president. Maybe he is. I don’t know. But after the last eight years of Bush, I just don’t care that much about abortion anymore.

Seriously? Your mother must be so proud.

The reason I don’t care about abortion as much, is because I believe that being pro-life is more than just opposing abortion. It’s about preventing unecessary wars. It’s about opposing torture. It’s about ensuring that there are fewer abortions by providing teens with the knowledge necessary to keep from getting pregnant. It’s about providing low income people with the money necessary to be able to afford to have children.

If you vote for McCain then you are almost certainly voting for more wars, more torture, and more abortions.

I’m still pro-life. I have just decided that the Democratic party is now more pro-life than the Republican party.