Just a Couple a Fellas Hatin’ on Rules and God

JP and I just received the most wonderful email from a reader who left City Bible. At some point, with the author’s permission, I am hoping to share the full email. However, here is an excerpt which I believe safely protects the readers identity.

The hardest part of my healing process was feeling like I was the only one struggling with CBC backlash. I felt like I was awful because I seemed to be the only one hurt by that church. I googled this blog because I saw a facebook post from a “friend” bashing your blog and false information. I had been taught that this blog was run by a few boys who hated rules and God, so I never looked into it. I was so excited when I found this blog that I was not the only one. There were others, LOTS of others who had been through much worse than I went through.

A couple of thoughts.

1 – I have spent the last four years aggressively friending on Facebook every person I ever made contact with at City Bible, all with the hope that someday I would find someone complaining about this blog. And in all those years, nary a peep has been said about me or this blog. So, who is this “friend”? And, more importantly, WHY AREN’T WE “FRIENDS” ON FACEBOOK?

2 – Yes. I hate your rules and your “god”. Primarily, because your rules permit church leadership to emotionally, spiritually and financially  abuse church membership. And because your “god” is a traveling salesman hustling for change on the street corner.

City Bible sells 217 Campus

Not really sure what this means, but City Bible sold their 217 campus to Westside Christian High.

I assume City Bible is still going to meet at the building, they just won't own it. Whch I'm sure will cut down on their expenses. Not a bad move. But I can't help but think that maybe if they had just tithed more, they wouldn't have to sell. The prosperity gospel being sound economic policy and all.

A Few Good Links

- The other half of Year of Sundays, Joel, just filed his review of City Bible. He is not a fan.

- Blue Like Jazz is being made into a movie. You can watch the trailer here. I thought the book was only okay, but this film looks like it holds potential. Could this be the first good Christian film? Burnside Writers Collective has a great overview of the film.  

- The Book of Mormon cast performed their song I Believe at the Tony's. I have not wanted to see a musical this much, since ever.  

The 15 Minute Ego Card

The Year of Sundays crew is making the most out of their visit to CBC. They've already posted twice about the visit and still have yet to file their official review. City Bible really is a fountain of entertainment for a blogger.

Today, they shared CBC's 15 Minute Prayer Card. The card lists 10 things to pray about this summer. I literally laughed out loud while I was reading the list. Head on over to their site and check it out.

The Problem Of Teaching Prosperity

One of our readers (jayjacque) provided some very keen insight into the problem with the prosperity message that a lot of churches (especially those in MFI) teach today. 

For years you get taught, buy, read, study, watch, buy some more, learn to speak the right language, give to every offering, attend over and over and over again. Pretty much sell your soul and invest your whole existence as well as your family’s, in order to learn and memorize a bunch of formulas some guy has strung together as his idea of the divine path to fulfillment, potential, success, victory, God’s best for you and for His church, etc.

And then 10 or 20 yrs. later you realize you’re pretty much in the same place, still believing you’re just on the brink of coming into whatever mystical things were being hyped up back then in front of you. Same kind of things just a little different language now to describe them.

But then, taking a good look back, you realize (I do anyway) that instead of the great and glorious, you had a mixed bag, some victories and joys, but also your share of heartaches, maybe a divorce or two, sickness, financial failure, kids with problems, habits you couldn’t quite overcome, dreams unfulfilled, etc.

Something’s wrong with that picture. Was it just some kind of artificial bubble we were in? It feels like we were wandering around in the wilderness for years pretending to go into the promise land. Something’s screwy, and I don’t believe God’s at fault.

This is something I have been thinking about and discussing a lot lately.  I've been talking to elder Christians (people in their 50s and 60s) who've been serving God for 20, 30, even 40 years, and many of them have these same observations about the lack of fulfillment of the promises they've heard year after year while sitting in the pews, attending seminars and conferences, prophetic assemblies, discipleship groups and one-on-one counseling sessions.  The promises of health, wealth and happiness that was sure to come after complete and total service to God and His house.  Well for many these promises have not come true.  In fact a majority of these people who spent their lives dedicated to all things "holy" have the same divorce rate as those who didn't.  Their kids who went to Christian school are no more serving God then the kids who went to the shunned public school.  They are no more free and clear of drug and alcohol addiction than their neighbors who never set foot in church.  They struggle with the same forms of sickness and disease as everyone else, and their finances have been just as affected by a collapsing economy as their non-Christian friends.  In other words, the prosperity train they had been told was coming their way, never stopped at their station.  And now all these years later they are stuck asking why?

I think there has been a great disservice and injustice done by churches like City Bible.  Churches that tell people their time will come, God will eventually bless them with all they hope for and desire. But nowhere does Jesus teach us these things.  Nowhere does He say give me your money, give me your time, give me your heart and soul and I promise to return to you all the health and wealth you need.  This is yet another sign of the false doctrine leading God's sheep astray.  If you are reading this and you are apart of a church like this, again I say get out now.  Get out while you can and don't look back.

Dumb Sheep Complex

A reader asked me to post these comments. I think it fairly accurately sums up the problems with City Bible and many mega-churches.  

I attended Bible temple for many years growing up. I have also quietly read this forum for many years, and this is my first post. One of my closest relatives was an elder at CBC for a very long time, and one of the actual founding fathers alongside Dick Iverson (because I have a large Christian ministry of my own and for personal reasons, I chose to remain anonymous).

The problem with Bible Temple, i.e. City Bible et-al, can be boiled down to one simple point of religious/church philosophy.

THE CONGREGATION OR THE PEOPLE HAVE NO RIGHT OF INITIATIVE. Everything is essentially controlled by one man, i.e. the Senior Pastor or God's (so called) "set man."  The Iverson/Damazio model does not permit or allow the democratic principle amongst the people.

This principle is the declared foundation for all MFI sanctioned churches.

The entire leadership and elders are chosen and appointed by the "set man." Everything that happens, everything that is said and done, everyone who serves, does so at the pleasure of the "set man." Dick Iverson used to always like to make the statement in relation to the elders, "I am looking for men who will work with me."  That sounds to me like a Sadam Hussein type
of government.

No ministry is ever accepted or recognized within the CBC/MFI structure, unless it is blessed by the one "set man." He has total veto power as to what ministries or doctrines are ever sanctioned, anointed, blessed, given pulpit time, and eventually released.

One must go to the Old Testament and the example of Moses under the law in order to come up with a set man doctrine. It is not found anywhere in the New Testament church.

At CBC/MFI there has always been this high wall between the leadership andthe people (virtually all policy matters are only discussed and decided behind closed doors). There is no provision for an open forum. People are taught that to disagree with leadership is nothing less than "rebellion against God's anointed."

Unlike most all other church denominations, if the people of the congregation at CBC wanted a change of leadership, there is no way they could ever have one or be able to vote out the "set man" and his collection of "yes men."  Thus (as one BT elder who was kicked out of the church stated), "The only power the people have is the POWER OF THE PURSE." If they don't like the way things are, all they can do is quit giving their money and hit the highway.

Of course the "set man" and his appointed "set men" will tell you that this is God's "set pattern" for the New Testament "pattern church."  Eldership rule! That is pure poppycock. There is no N.T. basis whatsoever for absolute "eldership rule" in all matters to do with a locality church. The ultimate power in any government should always belong to the people (even the founding fathers of America recognized this divine protective principle). In the New Testament church, the people have the exclusive right to choose the bishops through fasting and prayer (see Acts chapter 3). The purpose of the leadership is always to serve the sheep, not to help the higher ups fulfill their ministerial ambitions and dreams.

Dick Iverson has always had a "dumb sheep complex."  He views and sees the people as a bunch of dumb sheep. Thus they need "big daddy" to guide them and  protect them from those who are "outside the camp." (There is a little
insecurity and paranoia at work here folks).

In the Iverson/Damazio model, the people need only do two things (1) give their $$$, and (2) don't spread an evil report. Then everything will be cool.

There is much more that can be added to this topic, but the basic problem is the arrogance of the leadership and the separatist/hierarchy they have created betwixt themselves and the "dumb sheep." While they may be correct on many of the fundamental Christian doctrines, the governmental structure of CBC/MFI is evil and wicked and self serving, and has all the earmarks of a religious and mind controlling cult.

It’s GU Time

Well it's that time of year again.  The time when all the City Bible cronies get super hyped because there money maker conference Generation Unleashed is on.  I used to go to this thing back in the day when it was much less hyped, but since I haven't set foot in the bubble in over 10 years I have no idea what it is like now.  All I can see is what's online and what I hear.  From that it seems to me that they are trying really hard to be trendy, hip and cool, which is generally the case for most of what they do.  Just another example of trying to "be like the world without being in the world" (I always loved that line).  And the speaker line-up seems more inbred than ever with 8 of the 11 featured speakers being connected to either CBC or TCC in some way.  Haven't the kids who attend this thing heard enough of Frank Damazio, Judah Smith, Benny Perez and Marc Estes?  Maybe it's time to find some fresh blood out there.  Too bad they preach such softball messages of goodness, blessing and love.  Not that those are bad topics, but it would be nice to see a youth pastor throw in something on sacrifice, obedience, and servant hood once in awhile.  Something that really challenges kids to step away from trying to be hip and cool and encourages them to focus on Jesus.  This may be why generations of young Christians don't last past high school.  No one ever seems to get in their face and preach some truth.  I don't doubt young lives are being affected by GU, but I hope for their sake the kids don't stick around the domes too long afterwards.

So is this really a conference or just a concert?

GU 2011

What is wrong with City Bible Church?

Someone recently asked the following:   

I guess my question would be of the leaders of this blog (which has been a great encouragement to me) is… can they post a statement of what is the false doctrines CBC subscribes to that it might provide me more insight into what to present to my wife (and others if necessary)?

This is a very broad question, and I don't consider myself a leader of this blog, however I am a regular contributor and Catalyst gave me some administrative power (bet he regrets that) so I will address this briefly.  I mean after all, six years of posts and comments is a lot to sift through.  I must also point out though that I only speak for myself and there are likely many on this blog who will disagree with me, but here it goes.

I believe CBC is in the right place with the basics of Christianity.  In fact all Christian churches are really. Heck even the Mormons believe most of the basics. The Trinity, Christ’s death and resurrection, the Bible, Heaven/Hell…all that is at the heart of what it means to be a Christian.  In my eyes, where they go wrong is the method of living as a Christian.  I found that CBC makes the Gospel (Jesus' life, death, and resurrection for our sins) the starting point of being a Christian but our actions the finish line.  (This is in contrast to the Bible, which makes the Gospel the start, middle and finish of Christianity).  CBC tells us you must have faith to come to God, but then actions to be loved by Him.  You must believe in Jesus to be saved by Him, but perform for Jesus to be known by Him.  You ask Him into your heart but He won't dwell there until you show you are worthy enough for His presence.  This is the distortion and falsehood of truth I refer to.  Why?

When Jesus uttered the words "it is finished" He wasn't referring to himself dying on the cross to save mankind as much as He was referring to the fact that the Gospel was completed.  The rat race of performance, penance, and human sacrifice (under the law) was over…humans were finally free.  He fulfilled the law and destroyed all the requirements of the Old Testament.  From then on anyone and everyone were completely covered by the blood of Christ.  Our job is simply to accept it, believe in it, and live for it.  But this is not what CBC teaches.  They say that after the little prayer asking Christ into your life you must move up the spiritual ladder and maintain yourself as a Christian through various forms of actions, disciplines, and beliefs.  You must pray, read the Bible, fast, tithe, separate yourself from your past, disassociate with the outside world, stop doing this and start doing that.  They use scripture like "faith without works is dead" in order to push a philosophy of works and performance as the means by which our relationship with Christ will remain, and our growth in Him will help us move up the level of importance in His kingdom and earn spiritual badges that will eventually put us at the highest level of importance in His eyes.  The better we are, the more faithful we live, the more dedicated to Him we appear, the greater our blessings on earth and in heaven we shall receive.  For the truly great (like Pastor Frank) there will be a place at the front of the crowd in heaven, directly beneath His feet at the throne.  They tell us that because the pastors and elders have spent so many years as active Christians learning in their faith with Bible degrees and the blessings of health and wealth, that they are more accepted by God at a higher level of righteousness, and ultimately more important in His eyes.  This importance gives them a direct line with God and a special mantel of power and authority to speak into others lives and dictate what we should or shouldn’t do.  Then to make matters worse, CBC uses guilt and manipulation to get people to buy into these theories.  They abuse young, innocent, immature people into following their brand of authority, demanding people follow and obey their interpretation of the scriptures and establish a class system of those who do and those who don’t.  And when you are one of those who don’t they barrage you with attacks about your disobedient spirit, unfaithful ways, and hard heart, ultimately forcing you to either conform to their ways or hit the highway.

The falsehood behind this kind of doctrine is that Jesus spent over 30 years on this earth serving with the people, living humble, weak, without riches, traveling from place to place, caring only about healing the sick, caring for the orphans and the children, the widows, and the lost. Jesus preached “come as you are” believe in Him to make you pure, and know that by His stripes we are healed.  He preached our justification is through Him alone.  He had no desire to be a rich king, or a ruling authority on the earth as the Son of God.  Instead he died on the cross to bring peace to us all, so we no longer had to serve God under our own power, by our own means, but instead by His grace.  CBC corrupts the pureness of this by smashing it down into a little box and saying that was great to get you started but now you must put that box on the shelf and start your plate spinning regimen of a quest for perfection to earn a complete place in God’s kingdom.  And should you fail at this quest He will take away His covering of righteousness on you and it will be a long hard climb back to the top of the “holiness hill”.  Being apart of this process creates a level of arrogance in those who are able to achieve such high performance and a sense of failure in those who don’t.  It creates an unhealthy relationship with God, where one views His love for them by how much they prayed or read their Bible that week.  Where one judges the good stuff in their life as a blessing from how faithful to God they are, and the bad stuff by how sinful they are.  People get on that treadmill or hamster wheel of performance, running in circles year after year but really going nowhere.  They tie their whole lives up into the church, sacrificing their own dreams and goals, educational and career desires and pursuits, only to come up short in the eyes of those they so desperately seek approval from.  And in the end, only a small handful of people actually make it to the promise land of God’s chosen on this earth, while the rest of us scrap for the crumbs from the king’s table.

So you see CBC is a breading ground of falsehood.  False theories of work and performance, preached by leaders/pastors who live under false assumptions that they are God’s chosen, and people/members who carry a false belief that they must do something for God to be more loved, accepted and important to Him.

Open Rebuke is Better than Secret Love

Here is a fun comment from Philip Suparto (A fake name, if I've ever heard one). He recently "stumbled" across this website, and has taken it upon himself to set us all straight. The comment isn't that much different from the hundreds we get here telling us in very polite terms to SHUT UP!   

But I thought there was one interesting part in the comment where Philip tells us that he's sorry for offending us, but "open rebuke is better than secret love".  I find this statement fascinating, because I always thought that this blog was pretty much an "open rebuke" of City Bible Church.  Additionally, anyone who has ever spent anytime in leadership at City Bible knows that the biggest gossips are all on the pastoral staff. At least folks on this blog are taking their criticisms public rather than hiding behind the cloak of "leadership."

Consider this an open thread. My motiviation to blog comes and goes, and I'm currently low on motivation. So if there is anything you want to discuss feel free to mention it in the comments, perhaps it will get my blogging blood flowing again.