Category Archives: Comments From Others

Sometimes we put other peoples comments on our blog. No, they are never as funny as we are.

God Can’t Love You If You’re Wearing Gap

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Below is an email we received from someone who recently got fed up with the superficiality of church. I edited the email to protect the writers identity. 

I have been reading this blog for years but have never had the guts to actually send an e-mail with how grateful I am to have found this site. I found this site after I had been out of CBC for a few years. I was hurt badly at CBC from a lot of people ranging from “pastors” (I unfortunately use the quotes because the lack of maturity is maddening to me) to just other church members who were friends and family friends. I never felt like I fit in at CBC and was always treated as such. I never did drugs, wasn’t having sex, wasn’t drinking, wasn’t partying etc. There wasn’t any reason for me to be treated the way I was treated.

I went through serious health and mental issues in high school and found no help when in “counselling” sessions from CBC pastors. I also realized the emphasis on outward appearance there more than I already had. My doctors were extremely excited because I was 10 pounds away from gaining to the “goal” weight they wanted. I was approached by a “mentor” who negatively commented on my weight gain.

I stopped going to youth group during my freshman year of high school. I literally came home crying from some comment either another GU member said to me or a pastor. Comments about my non Nordstrom jeans, and other stuff. The day before and day of GU became days that I had so much anxiety that I could not handle it anymore. I found that it was less stressful to take heat for not going to GU than to actually just go.

Leaving City Bible was one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life. I no longer found my identity in CBC, but found it in my studies. I felt confident, happy, and worth something. These feeligns were something I never felt before because my life revolved solely around a church that I felt like an outcast in.

I don’t have a problem with God, and I never have. I’m not an immoral person, I still read my bible and pray daily and try to live my life according to the Word. But as for a church I have not gone in forever. However over the past few years I have formed a friendship with a lady I met through my work and she has finally convinced me to try her church. Her church is a place where jeans and a tee shirt are fine and that it’s okay to make a mistake because pastors help you through it. If this church is anything like the person she is, I can’t wait to try it.

I read your blog not because I am bitter anymore, but because it’s a place where people can go through the process. They find out they aren’t the only one, or they read it because it puts CBC in a negative light, but then they just end up reading it to thank God they are out and in a new and better place. I like to look at this blog, it’s a constant reminder that leaving CBC was the best decision I have ever made.

I have never had the guts to really tell my story, and I know this is a long email, but I’ve never really told anyone besides a few close friends about what I went through and how I felt. Your blog has been a great place for me to have the courage to stand by my decision to stay away from CBC and I love seeing people come  out with their stories and what they went through. If it had not been for this blog, I would still have this nagging thought of am I awful because I feel this way about CBC. I love seeing stories of people breaking free and finding a better place.

I have to laugh at myself because as I went to send this, I almost didn’t because I became afraid if you mentioned my name in conversation someday to a CBC person that happened to know me,  what would they say? Would they claim I was lying? Would they judge me? Would they say I overreacted? But thoughts like that, fear of being judged for saying the truth….that’s exactly why I left CBC. I am telling my story in this e-mail to you because it just feels good to tell someone who would understand because they’ve been there too. I’m sure you may think I’m crazy blabbering on to you in this, but then I remember..I’m not the only one that has e-mailed you before to thank you for the blog.

Just a Couple a Fellas Hatin’ on Rules and God

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JP and I just received the most wonderful email from a reader who left City Bible. At some point, with the author’s permission, I am hoping to share the full email. However, here is an excerpt which I believe safely protects the readers identity.

The hardest part of my healing process was feeling like I was the only one struggling with CBC backlash. I felt like I was awful because I seemed to be the only one hurt by that church. I googled this blog because I saw a facebook post from a “friend” bashing your blog and false information. I had been taught that this blog was run by a few boys who hated rules and God, so I never looked into it. I was so excited when I found this blog that I was not the only one. There were others, LOTS of others who had been through much worse than I went through.

A couple of thoughts.

1 – I have spent the last four years aggressively friending on Facebook every person I ever made contact with at City Bible, all with the hope that someday I would find someone complaining about this blog. And in all those years, nary a peep has been said about me or this blog. So, who is this “friend”? And, more importantly, WHY AREN’T WE “FRIENDS” ON FACEBOOK?

2 – Yes. I hate your rules and your “god”. Primarily, because your rules permit church leadership to emotionally, spiritually and financially  abuse church membership. And because your “god” is a traveling salesman hustling for change on the street corner.

The Problem Of Teaching Prosperity

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One of our readers (jayjacque) provided some very keen insight into the problem with the prosperity message that a lot of churches (especially those in MFI) teach today. 

For years you get taught, buy, read, study, watch, buy some more, learn to speak the right language, give to every offering, attend over and over and over again. Pretty much sell your soul and invest your whole existence as well as your family’s, in order to learn and memorize a bunch of formulas some guy has strung together as his idea of the divine path to fulfillment, potential, success, victory, God’s best for you and for His church, etc.

And then 10 or 20 yrs. later you realize you’re pretty much in the same place, still believing you’re just on the brink of coming into whatever mystical things were being hyped up back then in front of you. Same kind of things just a little different language now to describe them.

But then, taking a good look back, you realize (I do anyway) that instead of the great and glorious, you had a mixed bag, some victories and joys, but also your share of heartaches, maybe a divorce or two, sickness, financial failure, kids with problems, habits you couldn’t quite overcome, dreams unfulfilled, etc.

Something’s wrong with that picture. Was it just some kind of artificial bubble we were in? It feels like we were wandering around in the wilderness for years pretending to go into the promise land. Something’s screwy, and I don’t believe God’s at fault.

This is something I have been thinking about and discussing a lot lately.  I've been talking to elder Christians (people in their 50s and 60s) who've been serving God for 20, 30, even 40 years, and many of them have these same observations about the lack of fulfillment of the promises they've heard year after year while sitting in the pews, attending seminars and conferences, prophetic assemblies, discipleship groups and one-on-one counseling sessions.  The promises of health, wealth and happiness that was sure to come after complete and total service to God and His house.  Well for many these promises have not come true.  In fact a majority of these people who spent their lives dedicated to all things "holy" have the same divorce rate as those who didn't.  Their kids who went to Christian school are no more serving God then the kids who went to the shunned public school.  They are no more free and clear of drug and alcohol addiction than their neighbors who never set foot in church.  They struggle with the same forms of sickness and disease as everyone else, and their finances have been just as affected by a collapsing economy as their non-Christian friends.  In other words, the prosperity train they had been told was coming their way, never stopped at their station.  And now all these years later they are stuck asking why?

I think there has been a great disservice and injustice done by churches like City Bible.  Churches that tell people their time will come, God will eventually bless them with all they hope for and desire. But nowhere does Jesus teach us these things.  Nowhere does He say give me your money, give me your time, give me your heart and soul and I promise to return to you all the health and wealth you need.  This is yet another sign of the false doctrine leading God's sheep astray.  If you are reading this and you are apart of a church like this, again I say get out now.  Get out while you can and don't look back.

A Warning About Church Of The Harvest

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According to a new blogger there are some big problems at Church of the Harvest in Meridian Idaho.

You have no idea how cultish Mark and DiDi's church is. (Church of the Harvest, Meridian, Idaho).  They are so controlling and they try to rip families apart. This is a serious warning. They try to pull the loyalty away from parents (which is a God-given, legitimate relationship) to the church and the leadership. Things that were said to a friend: "My parents and I are the only thing that stands between you and the wrath of God", "Your parents don’t love God because they are not in church every time the doors are open – please process this on your own, without your parents", "You will never be blessed if you leave", "You can not take any of God’s promises with you that have been spoken over you at this church", "I’m not even sure you’re saved", "You’ll never find a church holier than ours".  Seriously, you have no idea what goes on in that Church. I weep for the destruction that they cause in their wake. The church is so deceptive, they mix so many unsound things with random Biblical truths and the people that are there live in fear. If you ever saw the inside of Mark and Diane Bryan’s church and how it really operates your heart would break. Church of the Harvest is not just a wacky MFI church. These people are dangerous and cruel beyond anything you have every experienced.

Sadly, they view any criticism of Church of the Harvest or the Bryan family as confirmation that they are doing everything right (because the Bible says all who are godly will suffer persecution).  See how twisted that is. They can’t even see what they are doing. They really think that what they are doing is right. They are deceived. Only God can open their eyes. They’ve even tried to control all the negative info on the web! There used to be several places that people could express their complaints about Church of the Harvest, but they bought them and only allow good stuff to be said now (they were public type forums). I never wrote on them, but I did read them and was glad that they were on the web. After reading this blog, I searched again and discovered that they hired someone to "clean up" the first few pages of the google search. Mark and DD Bryan think that if you have any constructive criticism that you are coming against the church and you are a heretic and rebellious. They are vicious.

Some of these people that "get out", well it’s hard to describe the psychological damage that’s been done to them. They are usually broken, broken, broken people. The emotional and spiritual abuse that happens at Church of the Harvest is shocking. People that come out of their literally have shell shock and what’s that other disorder that people get after fighting in wars? They ask you to violate your conscience over and over again. Many people buy into it hook, line and sinker because it appeals to our natural man. "You tell me what to do, I’ll do it, then I’ll go to heaven".

It is so sad to see the monster Dick Iverson has created with MFI … and many, many other "churches" that have come out of Bible Temple. The relational dysfunction, the unsound doctrine, etc.  DD Bryan literally feels like they have a new brand of Christianity.

Well here you go current and former COTH members (and anyone else who is familiar with their shenanigans).  Here is your chance to anonymously voice your frustrations and concerns about the church and no one is going to be able to silence you or take it down.

UPDATE: Wow it seems like there are a lot of people who have been hurt by this church.  We are getting a lot of new bloggers posting some pretty awful stories about that place.  I am sure there will be some backlash from COTH and it's members.  Please remember this is an open forum blog, and I personally only want truthful and first hand knowledge about your own personal expereinces.  Do not tell someone else's story, or make up something that never happened just to tear someone else down.  That being said, I am glad we have provided an outlet for people who otherwise felt they couldn't be heard.  Blog on!

A Question About Church

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A new reader asked the following: 

Hi all, I do not usually frequent this blog, but came across it as I am currently looking for a church and have been going to one of the city churches (not in the Washington state area but one of their church plants) and was trying to find out more about the group it’s affiliated with…I just wanted to hear your input about how much one of the city church plants mirrors the CBC [ones] in terms of theology and leadership/authority structure. Thanks.

I've never been to any of TCC's only CBC, but I am sure someone out there has thoughts on this. 

Advice for Gabby

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Happy New Year! (This is the first post of 2011).

This comment got lost in another thread and I thought it deserved to be addressed more openly so our readers could give Gabby some good advice.  Because after all that is what CBC is all about, right? If we don't help those in need, then what are we doing here?

Gabby said: "Hello!! Ok, so I've been one of those readers for a few years, and never said a word! I have been at City Bible for 6 yrs, started reading this blog 2yrs ago. I just want to say I myself am having problems and feelings like I should leave yet I end up feeling guilty for feeling that way and ask my self what's my problem! Well I know I have issues and all that but I'm starting to think that some of these feelings are there for a reason, so thank you all for your blogging it has help and is helping me to wade my way through all this….Blessing to you all!! At least we know this, we are the least of them and that's a good thing!!"

So City Business readers, what is Gabby to do?

A Quick Note on Comments

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Commenting on this blog is a privilege; it's not a right.

After five years of this blog, I'm tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again. 

So, if you're going to write a negative comment, please make sure it is well written and that it moves the conversation along.  

Bonus points for actually being funny.  The best negative comment we ever got, was "The Morton boys traded Christ for a Beer."

We quote that comment all the time. Cracks us up.

God’s Annointed

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We've touched on this issue before, but this comment from Chip is one of my favorite defenses of the church:

I think some of the people writing this stuff should remember the account of David and Saul. Saul tried to kill David but David was very careful not to harm God’s anointed. Also I guess these people writing have no issues, no sin or any other problems in their lives. Hope their not living in a glass house.

This is exactly how cults are started. Can't criticize the leader: He's God's Annointed. By that logic, the children abused by Catholic priests should just suck it up and keep their mouth's shut. Because, you know, the priests are God's Annointed. And sexually abused children need to be very careful not to harm God's Annointed.

Here's the deal: If being a Christian means I can't criticize any leader in the church, then I'll pass on Christiantiy, thank you very much.

“Darlings of the City Church”

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Here's a quick note from another very satisfied reader:  (Changed a little; to hide the writers identity)

My friends are darlings of the City Church up here in Seattle. Reading their posts on social media sites disturbed me–ALWAYS hyper positive (I mean literally they never have a bad day it seems), scripture quoting, and City Church praising. Not to mention frequent bubblings about how God wants us to have whatever we want. I could go on and on about the myriad of other beliefs they have but it would take hours. Suffice it to say this site was a breath of fresh air for me, providing the affirmation that I'm not crazy and this really isn't a sound church organization. At least I know I'm not the only one who hates hypocrisy and craves justice. Anyway, thanks for listening to my incoherent blabbing. 

Thanks for this blog!!! One post a month would be enough!

ONE POST A MONTH! Now you're getting greedy. I was leaning toward two posts a year, both of them focused primarily on my boozing habits.

And by "This blog is a breath of fresh air", I think the writer means "This blog reeks like the stale pungent aroma of a cheap cigar."  

I'm actually surprised that people still find this blog. It's a testament to the power of the internet, I guess. 

This guy didn’t start a blog; he sued his pastor. And won

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I love this story. From the comments:

I found your website and well just say it’s a blessing for me, liberating to be exact that I’m not the only one. Not saying that ur pastor’s an ass, just the thought that it’s ok to questioning the church authority and getting them responsible of it. I did, my ex pastor stepped down a few months ago, now being investigated of fraud. Nice guy, just forgot that he’s serving God not the goods… well anyway what i did to my (ex) pastor was :

Step 1. Questioning him privately first, bluntly in his face (we had lunch, my mom’s one of the church’s biggest donor, he loved us.. a lot), he denied my accusation and play the angry card, accusing me i was a bitter young guy in need for a big-time repent. Then apparently he told everyone about the evil me, hence the asst. pastor calling me -not by name- (quote) “the thorn” in a Sunday service sermon in front of 5000 people, sent by the devil spreading rumors to shake and hurt the “God-Anointed man”.

Well something just ain’t right in the equation about the first class “mission” family trip to Maldives, Hawaii, Baha etc, new SLK & S-Series, ,”the Canaan” (20k sqf mansion, with a private bowling alley thank you) and of course the old time favorite & repeated tithing sermons…
I’m OK with people getting rich, but not with my money (well to be fair, my mom’s mostly) in it and there’re people in the church losing their job, fighting bankruptcy and with illness, yet being told to tithe tithe tithe!
And yet here’s another 45k$ Patek Philippe for the “god anointed man” doing nothing really with no real job but being fat and speaking about how everyone need to give him more $$$.

Step 2. Feed up. I had enough. So I talked with people, convince my mom to take action, looking for affirmation (one of the affirmation was form this lovely site.. again THANK YOU!), yes there’re a lot of people told me to mind my own business, that I’m just a young rascal (was 25 back then) and somehow kept hearing that it is a sin to question “god’s anointing”, well I know a tiger when i see one.

Step 3. I collected all my guts left in me (after been brutally eaten by the church pack) and we (me and some of the elders, my mom included) reported him to the financial committee. Filed a lawsuit (thanks to my mom’s company legal team) and there you go, now he’s spent $$$ paying for the legal fees, bye2 mansion, and sorry Mrs. pastor no more visit to the plastic surgeon…

Am I evil or what? :) Well tell that to the “man of god” who stop funding the elderly home, shutting it literally, denied financial assistance plea from a mother with breast cancer (told her to pray harder, tithe more and god will send miracle depending on how much she will put a seed of faith in here tithing, saying it’s by grace she’ll be healed, she died a few month after unhealed) and bought a new 150k church sound system instead (which cost only 100k, he tithed 50k for himself apparently), not that the one we had broken, it just the Hillsong singers coming and we need to bling up. And oh yes… he gave the infamously evil CA’s props8 tons of $$$ (move away mormons, he gave approx. 215k of the church money) denying people the rights to love and be equal… and we’re not even in USA! (the devil’s own friend, rev. jerry falwell & soon-to-go rev. pat robertson will love this guy company in hell surely).

After the legal huricane, new pastor got in, so this one better keep his hand off my money and use it for the right cause.
Yes you heard me “my money”, I don’t be believe in tithing as a return of God’s money thing, no way, in the The Parable of the Talents, it’s said that the master will taken us into account of the money (skill, etc) entrusted in us… so no way I’m gonna deposit mine in some crooks (who happened ran a money-hunger church) and do nothing about it. Never my intention to dictate pastor what to do, i just expect them to do the right thing as church supposed to do: To act love.

Money (or other things) is not the source of all evil, it’s the willingly evil human hearts, any human hearts are vulnerable including the so-called “anointed one”.

My point is maybe everyone should man up and talk to these pastors in the face, and enjoy the wild ride :)