Larry Taylor sends in the following request:
Just to let you know for anyone who is interested, I am looking for good personal uplifting stories for my new website. I am also looking for quality links, entertaining links, great schools, books, anything on the topic of “Spiritual Formation.” My pub is called, “Spirit Formation Today Online” and the address is:
Thanks. LT
If you have a fun story or something you think might interest Larry, please send it his way.
For those wondering just exactly how big a pain in the ass City Business Church is:
When Googling the following names, here is where our little website pops up:
City Bible Church - 9
Frank Damazio - 6
Marc Estes – 4
Jack Louman - 1
Ken Malmin – 2
Doug Lasit - 6
Dougie Lasit - 1
I'm not sure whether to be proud or embarrassed…it's taken 2 long years of CBC bashing to work our way to the front page of all these searches…of course, at this point, I can't help but think we've made our point…I guess what they say is true, we really don't have much of a life.
Good Times, Good Times.
I just got this email from someone who recently found the blog:
I was scouring the net to find out where Judah Smith got his theological training from. Do you know where he went to school/seminary?
Does anyone know the answer to this question. I ask because I find that most of the pastors and elders at City BibleChurch/City Church are uneducated, meaning they don't have a college degree from an accredited institution.
You will be happy to hear that after a lifetime of homosexuality, Ted Haggard has been healed.
Ralph said three weeks of counseling at an undisclosed Arizona treatment center helped Haggard immensely and left Haggard sure of one thing.
"He is completely heterosexual," Ralph said. "That is something he discovered. It was the acting- out situations where things took place. It wasn't a constant thing."
Now if Haggard can only figure out what it was that made him have sex with men, then he can get back on that glorious road to heterosexuality.
A reader sends in Pat Robertson's latest prediction. We've covered this before, and some people don't think we should give Pat this much attention, but I rather enjoy these predictions.
Expect "mass killings" from a terrorist attack in the United States sometime in 2007. Pat's not sure if it will be a nuclear attack or not. Evidently, God likes to play coy with this type of information. Giving Pat just enough to make everyone really nervous, but not enough information for anyone to actually do anything about it.
In our recent Homophobia post, we had a fascinating discussion on the subject of homosexuality and Christianity.
In the comments, the question of homosexuality seemed to turn on whether homosexuals are born gay or whether they choose homosexuality. Coincidentally, another Evangelical pastor just confessed to practicing homosexuality. Paul Barnes of Grace Chapel church in Colorado with a congregation of 2,100, recently stepped down from his position as head pastor.
Here's part of his confession:
“I have struggled with homosexuality since I was a 5-year-old boy. I can't tell you the number of nights I have cried myself to sleep, begging God to take this away.”
As a genuine question, why would someone in a marriage and pastor of a church choose to be gay? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Grace Chapel Associate Pastor, Dave Palmer, offered this thought:
Had the church been more of an environment of grace and had Paul been able to share his struggles in that environment of grace early on in his ministry experience, then I think it would have lessened the probability of his falling.
Update: Here's a good NY Times article discussing Gay Evangelicals.
…or so says Christian Blogger Marc Driscoll. On his blog, The Resurgance, Mr. Driscoll offers the following analysis of the Ted Haggard situation:
Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either.
As an unmarried heterosexual man, I don't think Mr. Driscoll quite gets it. So let me try to explain: Men who aren't attracted to their wives, for whatever reason, usually turn to OTHER WOMEN for sex. Men who aren't attracted to their wives and turn to other men are GAY. And thus, it doesn't matter if Mrs. Haggard looks like Eva Longoria, if Mr. Haggard's gay, he's not going to be attracted to her.
However, Mr. Driscoll doesn't leave us with out hope. Here's his solution:
Churches should consider returning to heterosexual male assistants who are like Timothy and Titus to serve alongside pastors. Too often the pastor’s assistant is a woman who, if not sexually involved, becomes too emotionally involved with the pastor as a sort of emotional and practical second wife. I have been blessed with a trustworthy heterosexual male assistant who can travel with me, meet with me, etc., without the fear of any temptations or even false allegations since we have beautiful wives and eight children between us.
Yes… yes… of course. Excellent. Keeping a young heterosexual assistant around will solve all your problems. Just ask Mark Foley.
(Thanks Chris. This is the best.)
Pastor Ted Haggard has been accused of hiring a male prostitute for the past three years. And as such, he has resigned his position as President of the National Evangelical Association while a church panel investiages the allegations.
I read about this yesterday, but initially didn't want to post anything because it sounded like a political trick (November Surprise) to depress the Evangelical base. And frankly, I don't care if Ted Haggard is gay. (Of course, cheating on his wife is something I have a problem with.)
But today, Haggard admits that some of the allegations are true.
This is still just a political ploy by the Democrats to keep Evangelicals at home. And when Karl Rove removes Osama Bin Laden's head from a duffel bag at a press conference on Monday, that will also be a political ploy. But for now, this is kind of sad.
Anyway, I wonder if Haggard is a member of MFI. Because if he is, the NEA can expect some nasty letters from Dick Iverson and Wendell Smith, rebuking them for investigating Haggard without consulting with MaFIa first.
I long ago realized that the cornerstone of this blog is gossip about City Bible Church. Preferrably gossip from people who have left the church. I wish this blog was above this type of post, but in reality there is very little this blog is above. We generally aim for the lowest common denominator. (Life's more Fun that way.)
Anyway, here's a story from an ex-BT/CBC member who recently found the blog and wants to share his Testimony.
My wife and I had a pretty high profile involvement in Bible Temple for years. At the same time, we were starting our own family. We had three babies in six years, which was our plan. When we were expecting #3, I was asked by Hank to come on staff and to become yet MORE involved. At that time, we were already attending an average of ten meetings per month (Shepherding the Frigg'n Flock etc). I told Crank that, if anything, we really needed to back off some…
So, Stank comes back with a very pissy retort along the lines of "I'm disappointed that you're not stepping up to the plate!" He harangued me for not seeing it as a great privilege etc. What he didn't know is that we had already decided to look for another church and were trying to wean ourselves from involvement so we wouldn't end up leading other people from Bible Temple (because, as you know, leaving BT was a direct indication that you are no longer in God's will).
When that third baby was born, we had him dedicated at BT but we had already found another church to move to afterwards. One very compassionate, giving elder pulled me aside right after the dedication and said "Ok, that's it. You two have had too many children too quickly and its gotten in the way of your ministry. No MORE!"
He also shares this interesting story:
Another good friend got pregnant (outside of holy matrimony !! OMG!!) by one of the chosen sons of leadership in BT. He was actually on staff. He blew the girl off and married someone else. This poor young lady was made to stand up in front of the entire church, confess her abominable sin and take the entire blame for what happened. The guy simply turned around and married someone else. Sister Edie pulled me aside that day and said "You know, I blame (woman's name), she should not have made (man's name) wait so long to get married.
You are known by your fruit, City Bible. You are known by your fruit.
Thank you all for you enthusiastic response to my meeting with Howard. Reading your comments took me back about 18 months to the passion I once felt in regards to City Bible Church. I would like to address some of the comments and will do so, but maybe it would help if I tried to explain myself a little better first.
When we first started this blog a year and half ago I still felt (and was) very connected to CBC. I still had many friends that went there and spent a lot of time talking with people about the church. After giving over 10 years of my life to CBC I felt I had a right, and duty, to call out the errors of their way.
I did just that. And it was good.
Now fast forward 18 months, I haven't stepped foot inside the church, I only have a few friends that still attend there (I can't imagine why) and don't really know what's going on anymore. At this point I can confidently say they are not the same church that they were while I was there.
Yes, it sounds like they are worse off now then when I was there and that they are continuing to head in the wrong direction, but I don't really know for sure. At this point it just doesn't seem to be any of my business. There are millions of screwed up churches out there and I would like to focus on more of them then just the one I used to attend.
It's not because I believe they may have changed for the better, its because I just don't care anymore (yes CBC, another point to show that I am not bitter). As I said before, this does not mean that I will never write about City Boobie again, I still may…
Please don't take this post as a resignation or a concession. It's just time to move on.
And now for your comments.
Comment 1: Maybe I got it wrong, but, why wasn't someone willing to meet with you a long time ago?
They made 1 previous attempt (2 if you count Larry Asplund, but I think he knew he was on his way out). I met with Marc Estes when the blog first started. He didn't seem to care about what I was saying. He was only there to tell me why I was wrong. He threatened to "Do what ever it would take to make the blog stop", but never followed through.
Comment 2: Can I ask you honestly? Doesn't the 18 months, lawsuit, etc., kinda let the air out of whatever happened in your meeting with Howard? I mean, clearly Howard cares, but he's just one man. What about CBC the institution?
They are what they are. Right now, I feel I have made my point and as we all know, there is no point in beating a dead horse. I had never spoken with Howard before that day and I stand by what I said. He's a good guy.
Comment 3: Does talking with one man really give you closure?
Not really. I believe this blog and the many comments by all of you have given me closure. My meeting with Howard was just a nice way to formalize it all.
Comment 4: Yea, so Howard's a great guy, and he cares. Guess what. There's other great guys up at CBC…who probably would care too…But it just seemed like you shared the conviction that many of us have against institutions like CBC, and now you're backing away faster than a Joel Fahndrich post.
There may be other people up at CBC who care, I haven't spoken to any of them. I've been through so much on this blog: talks of lawsuits, multiple threats, countless meetings, my family even got Uninvited to a 3 year olds birthday party; all because of my actions. There's been nothing "fast" about it.
Comment 5: We've spent a lot of time on here spelling out the things we've disagreed with in terms of doctrine, philosophy, and policies of CBC, the actions of the pastors, elders, etc. None of that has changed, but now you feel good about it because you had an amiable meeting with Howard?
I don't feel good with it. I still don't agree with the way they do things, I'm just tired.
Comment 6: Let me give you a hint: Howard is the head of CCLI because he's really good at something. That something is making people feel good about agreeing with him… So is it any surprise that you felt good coming out of that meeting? Not in the least. Unless you already know Howard and are willing to look past the slick salesman (as sincere as he is), and stay focused on the issues, you're not likely to make any "progress" towards resolving your philosophical issues regarding what church should look like, especially when it comes to tithing.
I don't get a "slick salesman" feeling from Howard. I believe he genuinely cares. Howard and I are still communicating about our "philosophical issues", but we go to 2 different churches now. Chances are real good we won't agree on everything. The important thing is that we can openly debate the issues.
Comment 7: And now that I see how you've backed off, I can't see why I should be reading here any more.
I'm not sure why anyone reads here anymore. Things have gone downhill since we posted our last Christmas song.
Comment 8: RP said himself that there is a time to judge intentions and a time to judge actions. I have a hard time when I hear that someone who has been a CBC elder for 20+ years has pure intentions when he continues as part of a church leadership group that misrepresents Scripture to boost their income.
How about this then?
In dealing with me…Howard had the best intentions. His actions backed that up.
Comment 9: Howard seems to be ok with that tithe policy as he referenced 10% tithing in his last blog post….and hasn't posted since. As FICM already pointed out, I have no doubt that RP was sold on a salespitch by an experienced salesman, nothing more.
Howard sold me nothing (except this great CCLI T-Shirt).
Comment 10: I have always found that actions speak louder than kind words and "pure intentions". If I believed every religious salesperson that had "pure intentions" and a good sales pitch, I'd probably be a Mormon.
How true. Mormon's really are the best humans aren't they. I look forward to seeing many of them in heaven.