Well, it had to happen. Generation Churchers, once enamored with Judah for his frank sex-talk, are now divided because of his conflicting messages of “sexual purity” and “the joy of sex”.

Supporters of Judah have donned buttons to voice their support.

A few prefer to conceal their support.

As in every movement, there are the zealots, seen running around the UW campus like 200 lb. canaries.

While the opposition has adopted a singular message of protest.

We can only hope that all the sexual tension at GC won't lead to dancing. 

 (Nod to CafePress.com for the fine graphics/products). 

I just got this email from someone who recently found the blog:

I was scouring the net to find out where Judah Smith got his theological training from. Do you know where he went to school/seminary?

Does anyone know the answer to this question. I ask because I find that most of the pastors and elders at City BibleChurch/City Church are uneducated, meaning they don't have a college degree from an accredited institution.

According to the Capitol Hill Property Sales Database, on September 18, 2006 the City Church purchased this Capitol Hill row house on the left for 1.4 million dollars.  (I apologize for the grainy picture, my cellphone isn't that great).

One and a half million dollars seems like a lot of money for a church in Seattle, Washington to spend on a church/home in DC. Especially, when there are literally hundreds of churches already on Capitol Hill. (I know because I live on Capitol Hill, and I pass several of them every weekend on my way to the bar.)

You'll also be interested to know that Frank "Give til it Hurts" Damazio is on the leadership team of this church, along with Wendell Smith. So next time you CBC'ers and City Churchers write that tithe/Faith Harvest check, remember you're not feeding the hungry, you're not clothing the poor, you're buying a House in DC.

But then, helping people isn't Wendell's vision.

The Vision of the new church is to influence the nations of the earth from our nation's Capitol.

That makes sense. I mean who has time to help the poor and the lost, when you're trying to influence nations.

Cafepress Link.

The gift of discernment often makes listening to a religious message very difficult, as the pastor reads scripture (spirit and truth) and then expounds on it (potentially out of a fleshly understanding). There are times when listening to a message, my spirit is in agreement, until the pastor throws in that old familiar manipulative "twist" to chide people into serving the institution over which the pastor presides. Ideally, a message should be wholly truthful and delivered in/by the Holy Spirit, however messages with a few twists rooted in the doctrines of men and the unquestioning support of institutionalism are more typical in my listening experience.

Judah's 2 part series on Organic Christianity however was spiritually convulsive for me, as he attempted to slap a coat of organic green paint on himself, the religious institution that profits him, and the doctrines of men which establish and insulate him as its leader.

The basis of his 2 part message was Acts 2:40-47.

Acts 2:40-47 MSG  [Peter] He went on in this vein for a long time, urging them over and over, "Get out while you can; get out of this sick and stupid culture!"  (41)  That day about three thousand took him at his word, were baptized and were signed up.  (42)  They committed themselves to the teaching of the apostles, the life together, the common meal, and the prayers.  (43)  Everyone around was in awe–all those wonders and signs done through the apostles!  (44)  And all the believers lived in a wonderful harmony, holding everything in common.  (45)  They sold whatever they owned and pooled their resources so that each person's need was met.  (46)  They followed a daily discipline of worship in the Temple followed by meals at home, every meal a celebration, exuberant and joyful,  (47)  as they praised God. People in general liked what they saw. Every day their number grew as God added those who were saved.

Near the beginning of the message, Judah exclaimed: "We're gonna get rid of all the man made stuff, and GO ORGANIC". He went on to talk about organic vs. chemically enhanced foods, how just a few decades ago everything was organic, but crop loss and poor yields drove the development of non-organic methods to increase yield and profit. He relates organic and non-organic to Christianity, specifically, the non-organic Christian may look good on the outside but be full of man made ideologies and theologies and philosophies that God never made nor intended. He states "If you don't go organic, you're not gonna last" and that only by going organic will you hear "Well done good and faithful servant."

While I do not disagree with his application of the organic metaphor to individuals, their personal walk with the Lord, the condition of their hearts, etc., Judah never once questions whether the institution is the non-organic creation of man. Though Judah warned against "man made ideologies and theologies and philosophies", he did not name a single one. By comparison, Paul whom Judah cited as author of 2/3rds of the NT, did not hesitate to identify false doctrines, such as circumcision, continuing to observe food laws, false apostles, etc. So tell them Judah; what are the "man made ideologies and theologies and philosophies" believers should be wary of?

I'd be happy to name a few "man made ideologies and theologies" (false doctrines): THE TITHE (Matthew 17:24-26, 2 Corinthians 9:7), THE BUILDING as the HOUSE OF GOD (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 6:19), SUBMISSION / SPIRITUAL COVERING (1 Corinthians 11:7, Matthew 23:8-10), THE CLERGY / LAITY DIVIDE (1 John 3:1, Galatians 3:26, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10). These are but a few of the many false doctrines that prop up the man made institution you represent, Judah.

Judah pitched 'cadres' as necessary to establish relationships and accountability with people who know you well, who know where you live, your email, your phone number, who can and will keep tabs on your spiritual walk. He also said "you need a pastor - somebody to look into your soul - and ask the hard questions - to really discover whether or not you're organic." In the next breath, Judah talked about Paul's church plants in Galatia, where "OT chronies" from the old system infiltrated the church and preached a different gospel that included works and effort - such as how you walk, talk, look, act, and do things. How are the Cadre's evaluation methods any different from those of the "OT chronies"? Both examine people based on non-organic criteria. Just listening to Judah's many remarks about others reveals his position on how a Christian should behave.

Presumably Cadres evaluate members by the same criteria Judah uses. For example: Do they read their Bible daily? Pray daily and especially for their pastor and other leadership? Do they tithe? Do they go to church? Judah has mentioned each of these 'evaluation criteria', all of which are rooted in man made theologies or are OT imports. Instead of the 'witch-hunt' mentality of "asking the hard questions", why not just be real (honest) with each other in loving brotherly relationship? As someone who has been involved in Relational Christianity and the Relational Body Life movement for years, I can assure you that people are put off by personal inquisitions of the type Judah is suggesting in his message. The practice smacks of authoritarian control under the watchful eye of "big brother."

The following 8 points are the characteristics Judah cited from scripture which he says identify an organic Christian. They are in the format of rough notes as I listened to his message. Following each of the 8 characteristics, are my comments and questions, if any.

1) Personal devotion … devoted all by themselves … I pray, read my Bible and tell people because I'm an organic Christian … talks about someone who got out from under religion and didn't read the Bible or pray for a year and had never felt so free - criticizes the person for it - says they're influenced by man made philosophy.

Samaritan: Since when is reading the Bible daily a requirement for being a Christian? The Bible was not readily available to the public until the 19th century, with the advent of modern mass printing methods. Regarding prayer, isn't a life devoted to Christ a prayer in and of itself? Does prayer have to take the form of kneeling, hands folded, at regular times of the day, or, can it be as led by the Spirit or as often as we need to go to the Father with a heartfelt concern?

2) Reverence … awe factor … people who say "hay buddy" to their pastor or call his parents by their first name - that is irreverence - they should be called 'reverend or pastor' - that's 'reverence for the house of God' … nothing holy any more … we over use word "awesome" - only God is awesome.

Samaritan: How can Judah talk about 'reverence in the house of God' and ask what happened to holiness - yet say often "shutup" to vessels of the Spirit, talk about sex with his wife, talk about farting and his farting skills and how freshman love fart humor? We are only holy when we are IN Jesus. We can NOT be holy. Even the Pharisees, for all their appearance of holiness, were said to be full of maggots and unclean things.

3) Ownership … greatest investment is giving in the house of God … talks about Poker tours - it's like poker nation - talks about being "all in" for Jesus. Says 5400 freshman joined UW today - says he asked the Lord for 2000 freshman … Judah's ALL IN … someone gave $1M for the down payment for the building they're in - calls that being "ALL IN". Taking ownership is giving all. How long we gonna sit at this table and watch you put in one chip at a time? God is looking for "all in".

Samaritan: Troubled my spirit that whenever Judah tried to make a "spiritual" point, he resorted to a "religious" example to underscore the point. Why is giving $1M for a building an indicator of being "spiritually" ALL IN? I thought the measure of being spiritually ALL IN was the fruit of the Holy Spirit? What building ever won someone to Christ? How much more would that same $1M have yielded if it had been invested in people? Sponsor a missionary, invest in individuals to help them put their talents to work for God, etc.

4) Generosity … "whatever you need the church gonna take care of you" … uses the word sucks, then says he never uses that word - hates the word - then observes he used it and says "shutup" … talks about his dream of building and furnishing a house just to give it away to someone else. Talks about person to person giving - helping one another out without even knowing someone elses name - just asks "are you one of us"? And helps them?

Samaritan: I wonder if the Good Samaritan asked the man who had been beaten and robbed and left for dead "are you one of us" before helping him? I'd like to see the GC books, please. If the church is going to take care of you, I'd like to see how GC is handling the tithes/offerings of people, and how those are being channeled through the pastor / leadership back out to the members to take care of their needs, and not just footing the bill for Judah, the building and utilities, etc.

5) Worshipping Together - talks about the first believers being in "one accord" - I believe in the local church - the coming together - "get into the same accord WITH ME" - has piano play nice chords, and dissonant chords - differentiates between accord / harmonious and discord / dissonant. Accord is not being in the same building or singing the same song - rather being of the same mind and passion - some people think they're "submitted" but they sound like 'this' (piano hits a terrible chord) - criticizes people who are not "submitted" - who are not in accord with a pastors vision - says "there are no lone rangers in Christianity" - the Lord will not tell you 'well done' for your independence …

Samaritan: The Lord will not tell you "well done" for your conformity. Regarding the old and tired 'Lone Ranger' cliche, and being IN a building and SUBMITTED to a pastor, I wonder how Judah reconciles Moses, Abraham, David, Elijah, John and Jesus, all of whom were called to the wilderness (alone) for a season. How is it that Jesus did not submit to the established religious institution? God has ALWAYS called people OUT of religious institutions to follow Him exclusively. That is the essential truth of Stephen's discourse in Acts 7. Further, worship is NOT gathering in one place to sing songs as led by a praise band. True worship is offering your very life upon the altar of God (Romans 12:1). And therein lies the epic conflict all of us must face. Whether to submit to the fear of man as expressed in the false doctrines of institutionalism, or, to leave the institutions of man (Revelation 18:4) and follow Christ like He commanded us (Matthew 10:37-39). Judah or Jesus; who are you following?

6) House to House Relationship - Continues talking about having meals house to house - house to house relationships - knowing one another over breaking bread - and having accountable / confronting type relationships - 'faithful are the wounds of a brother'.

Samaritan: I'm all for eating house to house. But, I disagree with the whole accountable relationship idea to the extent that it makes no allowance for eldership / maturity, and uses a religious criteria for judging someone's walk, rather than discerning by the Spirit and the evidence of fruit of the spirit. I also have to ask, IF the Acts 2:40-47 church is what God really wanted, why did He let the persecution of Acts 8:1 happen, which ultimately broke up the Acts 2 church and scattered them to the winds? The Acts 2 church was NOT obedient to the Great Commission. Jesus did NOT tell them to gather unto themselves - to form their own cloistered little community - He told them to GO OUT (to all the world) not STAY IN (Jerusalem).

7) Great Joy - ate meals with gladness and simple hearts - down plays / disses 'sophisticated thinking Christians' - talks about bringing all the knowledge and learning down to simplicity - and portrays himself as "I'm just a local pastor - not a Bible answer man - that loving each other is more important than doctrinal disputes - that it's still about Christ and Him crucified"

Samaritan: "I'm just a local pastor"? Wow. In a previous message just 2-3 weeks ago (the Waterpot message), Judah said "I am not here to fit in … We are here to take over". Judah is a real chameleon. I think Judah has some kind of disassociative disorder, or at the very least, his mouth is not connected to his brain, or his brain does not correlate what he is saying today with what he said yesterday. Paul I believe, called that 'double-mindedness' and a 'reed blowing in the wind'.

8) Favor With All The People - speaks of favor in context of blessing. Uses the example of a front page article the Seattle PI did on Judah and GC awhile back.

Samaritan: How does "favor with all the people" stack up with Paul's accounting of all the hardships and beatings and persecutions he went through? ALL the apostles were KILLED on account of living Christ. Same with the prophets of the OT who were killed for the truth. Where Jesus Christ is the "truth", they were killed for Jesus. So why is "favor with all the people" the measure of an organic Christian? Wouldn't a Christian who is truly letting Christ live through him / her, experience hardship and persecution? After all, didn't Jesus say: "you will have trouble in this life - the world will hate you because it hates me"?

CONCLUSION: Real organic Christianity does NOT need the religious institutions of man. Institutions are NOT organic. They are like greenhouses with artificial / filtered lighting and rife with pesticides, insecticides, fertilizers, hybrid religion, etc. Real organic Christianity, cuts out the middle man (the institution and the overlords thereof), where there is a simple 1:1 relationship between the gardener (God) and his planting (you). Religious institutions relate to believers in much the same way as green houses relate to seedlings. Unlike green houses however, religious institutions never transplant believers out in the world, but rather keep believers in the greenhouse their entire lives, where they are dependent on men to water and fertilize them. Sooner or later, if believers are to become truly organic, they must be transplanted out in the world, where they must rely on the Father in Heaven for all of their needs. Sooner or later, you must be planted in open ground, so that your roots do not become pot-bound, and to give you room to grow unhindered by the greenhouse environment and methods, whereupon you learn to walk by/in the Holy Spirit and to hear the Spirit of Christ for yourself. Organic Christians do not rely on men to hear God on their behalf; they hear, see, learn from and obey God directly. See John 10:27, Galatians 5:25, 1 John 2:27.

Finally, to Judah, I would say:

I practice organic Christianity. Organic Christians are my brothers. You, Judah, are NO organic Christian.

Sam

Whenever the City Business Church has blogged about Jonah Judah, a few of his blind devoted followers whine about it rise up in defense of him despite his immature antics as an anointed man of God. And so, to cheeze off Judah's groupies I listened to an entire message oh the nausea of it, to experience the hot air anointedness for myself.

Reference: Judah Smith, The Way of the Water Pot, from John 4:1-29 (Woman at the Well) and John 7:37.

Message summary: God is a river, a limitless source of living water. We are wells, but thirst because we still rely on worldly water, and when we go to God, we have a water pot mentality. Once we have met the Messiah we should, like the woman at the well, leave our water pot behind, and go to the river that is God.

The message however was very difficult to listen to, for several reasons. Here's a breakdown of some of the things that troubled my spirit:

:00 Plugs church membership seminar / trumps free breakfast; but doesn't know all the details and has to call on 2 other pastors to confirm the date and time. He knows enough about the event to announce it, but not the details. (Seemed awkward. Is he unprepared, or was that just a device to recognize the other pastors, or portray himself too important to be bothered with details? Seems like self exaltation, as in "I don't know the details - let me ask my assistants.")

:50 Acknowledges someone named Luke.

1:00 Plugs the Huskies. "Hey the Huskies are 2 and 1, football. Come on; TWO and ONE! Did you notice that AFTER Sean came to GC, the Lord just anointed him; got almost 100 yards and a touchdown. I told him I said 'Sean you just keep comin' to GC the Lord's just gonna keep blessin' ya.'"

1:20 A nearly 9 minute long animated and contemporized reading of the scripture. Scolds people for talking in the 3rd person - says only the Messiah should do that - declares that to be "good preachin' already". Several personal anecdotes. Calls the woman at the well the first "Desparate Housewife" … says "you should not watch that show by the way - I've never seen an episode - shame on you."

10:00 Prayer

10:40 Supposedly beginning the message now following the prayer. Judah announces "There's a green Honda Accord and black Impala about to be towed behind the building - run screaming from the building now - sorry brother that's kinda awkward - Shalom" (audience laughter).

11:00 "I'm a … I'm a shower guy … my father in law takes a bath every morning" … On honeymoon his wife asks "what are you doing" … Judah replies: "I enjoy the feeling of cascading water on my naked body" … talking about taking baths, he says: "Forgive me, I can not pray to God naked" … "OK, that's awkward … awright … I don't know about you, but it's like, Lord, um, anyway Lord, uh …" … "But I've tried the bath thing … Baths freak me out because there's no like suction - there's no removal of the dirty water - it's clean until you get into it and then you're sitting in the cesspool of yourself … think about it folks … what is up with this bath thing …"

14:00 Talks about his house and shower, and showering … talks about washing his armpits - does animation of arm-pit washing.

16:00 Talks about his wife flushing toilet on him while showering.

18:00 Talks about his house's water pressure and his wife saving money for fixing it.

19:50 Finally starts talking about "living below our means" in terms of God's available resources.

21:30 Tells the story of a guy who he met in High School and led to the Lord, who's dad owns a state-wide chain of businesses, they're millionaires, but the young man has chosen to work elsewhere saying "I want to make my own way." Three times Judah says he told his friend "You're an idiot", then tells him "that is ridiculous … that is your inheritance … go to work for your dad, he'll make you a manager …"

23:00 - 35:00 Comments on the scripture passage. Some points repeated from the original 1:20 - 10:00 scripture reading, but re-told in more detail with stage antics (showing off / entertainment), vocal impressions, with many pop culture expressions, from whispering to yelling for effect. In his retelling of the account, he resorts to some conjecture, and imputes motive to Jesus and the woman at the well for why the conversation unfolded the way that it did. One funny comment about 'noon' being the typical lunch time for the Israelites, as if that was a revelation or the result of scholarly study.

36:00 "Pastor Judah can you fill up my water pot - oh man that was a good word - fill it up … feels so good" - bangs on a pot … (this seems to be a mocking of people who come to GC and rely on Judah to fill them up - a strange comment - for without those people, Judah has no audience). Having seen some videos of Judah, I also imagine he's strutting the stage during the several long pauses. He's part evangelist, part stand-up comic, part child who needs to be the center of attention.

37:00 "You just come back next week, I'll share part II …and you, you might even go to hell unless you come and hear part II …"

39:20 Sings version of "I'm a little Teapot" 

41:40 "I am not here to fit in … We are here to take over"

47:10 Closing prayer. Queue background music.

47:50 Closing exhortations.

50:10 End.

Margin note: Message peppered with belittling epithets such as "watch this" (must think the audience blind), "think about it" (must believe the audience doesn't think) and "come on now" (must think the audience is mule-like).

CONCLUSION: After listening to the message, I don't doubt Judah's love for God, his passion for people, or that the Holy Spirit resides within him. The essential meat of the message was thoughtful, but could have been delivered in 5 minutes and the scripture read in 2. The rest of the message (about 40 minutes) was largely repetition, self-exaltation, entertainment, crude references, and mocking of others through ignorant-sounding vocal impressions which at times, sounded to this author like a sometimes stereo-typical inner-city black person. For me, the message was very nearly lost amid Judah's worldly performance. Based on the audiences obvious amusement, this author is convinced that Judah's groupies do NOT know the difference between "anoint-ment" and "entertain-ment".

I have mixed feelings after listening to Judah's message. Judah is a good kid, and I think if I knew him personally, I'd like him. His youth, zeal, humor, and caricatures remind me of someone I once knew well, but who needed his butt kicked routinely by someone older, wiser and more mature. Judah's zeal is consuming him, and ultimately, the message. He is relying entirely too much on theatrics to promote himself and sell his message. True anointment doesn't need theatrics. If Judah's friends or 'inner circle' of supporters had room for a mature and seasoned elder in the body of Christ, someone who has endured the cross unto the crucifixion of the flesh, who through the years had learned humility, I have no doubt that elder's advice to Judah would be to rely on the Holy Spirit to convey the message while making a humble and mature presentation of the gospel, and to quit relying on his water pot filled with feel-good quick-fix worldly water (antics and theatrics).

That leaves me with just one recommendation. Judah, you need to lift up Christ Jesus more, and Judah Smith less. Sorry brother that's kinda awkward. 1 Corinthians 2:2. Shalom.

Sam

In his sermon The Way of the Water Pot on the Generation Church web site, Judah proclaims: 

Hey the Huskies are 2 and 1, football. Come on; TWO and ONE! Did you notice that AFTER Sean came to GC, the Lord just anointed him; got almost 100 yards and a touchdown. I told him I said "Sean you just keep comin' to GC the Lord's just gonna keep blessin' ya."

Ducks (3 and 0) fans better pray that the whole Dawg-gone bunch of 'em don't start going to GC, or the Ducks are screwed! There's no defense that'll stop an anointed and blessed football team.

Margin Note: If Jonah is having so much fun, why does his voice still crack like that? A guy having that much fun ought to sound like Barry White.

 Here's an ad for an upcoming event @ The City Church. These people (not all, but apparently Pastor Wendell Smith) never cease to amaze me.

This banquet is set "to honor volunteers and leaders." They also say "it's a special occasion to honor you"…but then they charge you to go.

I'm sure they're just covering their costs.

A Year of Multiplication

On September 17th The City Church will celebrate it's 14th Anniversary, and hold our annual Vision Banquet to honor volunteers and leaders. You won't want to miss this special event.

"Don't miss your own party!" says Pastor Gini. It's true, the Vision Banquet is more than just an annual event, it's a special occasion to honor you, faithful members of The City Church. Week after week you lay down your lives for the sake of the Gospel, and co-labor with us as we reach the city and extend God's kingdom to the ends of the earth.

Additionally, this year's Vision Banquet will be monumental, as Pastors Wendell and Gini have both mentioned "big" announcements will be made. Pastor Wendell will also be sharing the next year's vision, "A Year of Multiplication."

You won't want to miss it, so you'd better hurry to register because tickets are limited and going fast! Get your tickets!

Of course the tickets are all sold out…I'm hoping they open a satellite banquet.

 I just found Pastor Wendell Smith's (The City Church) blog and obviously, one particular post stood out to me: Money Makes Us More of What We Are. I'm always curious any time an MFI pastor speaks on money, seems there's a bit of a trend, but I wanted to give Pastor Wendell Smith a chance.

At first glance, it seems he was taking a slightly different approach then any I'd ever heard from Frank Damazio and City Bible Church. His article was about lotto winners and the DANGERS OF MONEY… (One of CBC's most feared subjects). In it, Wendell Smith, actually lists many scriptures that warn of riches and wealth (he must not know Kevin Conner scratched these verses out of the newest MFI Bible), but here they are, as Pastor Wendell listed them:

5 Will you set your eyes on that which is not? For riches certainly make themselves wings; They fly away like an eagle toward heaven. Prov 23:5 (NKJV)
22 A man with an evil eye hastens after riches, And does not consider that poverty will come upon him. Prov 28:22 (NKJV)

13 There is a severe evil which I have seen under the sun: Riches kept for their owner to his hurt. 14 But those riches perish through misfortune; When he begets a son, there is nothing in his hand. Eccl 5:13-14 (NKJV)

12 The sleep of a laboring man is sweet, Whether he eats little or much; But the abundance of the rich will not permit him to sleep. Eccl 5:12 (NKJV)

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matt 19:23-24 (NKJV)

20 "But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?' 21 "So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God." Luke 12:20-21 (NKJV)

9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Tim 6:9-10 (NKJV)

20 A faithful man will abound with blessings, But he who hastens to be rich will not go unpunished. Prov 28:20 (NKJV)

Quite frankly, I was shocked. It seems he is at least open to the idea of wealth not being the ultimate goal of Christianity (See any Frank Damazio sermon from 1994-present). How could these 2 MFI churches co-exist? The City Church and The City Bible Church???? Two moderately large churches, each belonging to the same Non-Denomination (MFI) with similar backgrounds and names and websites and conferences and youth pastors and…. like I said, I was shocked.

Then I took a closer look. I missed one important thing. Prior to listing, the "forbidden" scriptures (my words, not Wendell Smith or Frank Damazio's) Wendell says this:

The Bible tells us clearly what will happen to people whose riches come quickly.

"…whose riches come quickly"

I'd always wondered what MFI did with all those scriptures (they didn't really scratch them out, Catalyst made that up) and now I know. "…whose riches come quickly". Is it safe to assume that we should still try to "get rich blessed by God", just not quickly?

Well, I'm not ready yet to say Pastor Wendell Smith of The City Church from Seattle, WA has the same beliefs as Pastor Frank Damazio of City Bible Church from Portland, OR in regards to tithing and the Bible, but I will say this, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.