My Original response which includes a point by point discussion of this pastors comments were 9 pages long. I don't think anyone wants to read all 9 pages at once (if you do email me and I'll be happy to send it to you). I've decided to break it down into sections to make it easier. Here is part 1.

I. IT IS A LAW OF NATURE THAT THE REAPING SHALL CORRESPOND TO THE SOWING.  

This is part of the general law that, other things being equal, the same cause always produces the same effect. There is no known exception to the law of causation; there is no possible evasion of it. We see it plainly working in human affairs. The eternal constancy of nature assures us that the consequences of which certain conduct is known to be the cause will undoubtedly follow (sin, relationships, health, career, finances).

My initial concern is that you start out by relying on an observation of nature rather than the Bible. I would like to believe that we should start with a Biblical foundation and move on from there. Wouldn't you agree?

Although there are many metaphors we can take out of the Old Testament I do not believe it is proper hermeneutics to form a whole doctrine on them without having Jesus or the Apostles make the point somewhere in the New Testament as well.

The special law of sowing and reaping is that the product of the harvest will be the same in kind as the seed sown. Tares will never produce wheat, nor wheat tares. But each seed reproduces its own kind. This is seen in human affairs. Commercial industry tends to commercial wealth, intellectual study to a state of intellectual culture, etc. It is vain to think that money will buy refinement or that learning is the road to wealth. Each pursuit has its own consequences in accordance with its own nature; finances are included in this principle both naturally and spiritually.

I have to stop and ask a question at this point. What is your definition of grace? I believe you would say it is "unmerited favor", correct me if I am wrong. I bring this up for obvious reasons:

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death…" (i.e. when you "sow" sin "you" reap death), "…but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast. (i.e. we sow sin yet reap life).

How do you see these verses in relation to the "Law of Causation"?

The way I see it, these two scriptures alone refute that "law" and also show the beauty of Christ's message. We must rely on God to save us, despite what we sow. You can sow all the goodness, kindness, finances, time, love, joy, whatever and in the end you will reap death… unless Christ saves you. Isn't this the essence of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in which we both strongly believe?

II. THIS LAW APPLIES TO SPIRITUAL SOWING AND REAPING.

1. Here the future depends on the past and present by a certain law of causation. No words could more plainly assert that our conduct is shaping our own fate; and these are not the words of James, but of the Apostle Paul, and they occur, of all places, in the Epistle to the Galatians, where the doctrine of justification by, faith is most vehemently asserted! Moreover, they are not addressed to Jews still under the Law, nor to heathen who have not yet availed themselves of the privileges of the gospel, but to Christians who have come into the justification by faith, as it is to Christians that St. Paul says elsewhere, "We shall all stand before the judgment-seat of God" (Rom. 14:10). We are here reminded that the future consequences of conduct are natural, not adventitious-that they are caused by what we are and do, that they flow of their own accord from our lives, and are not assigned from without by any arbitrary decree. We simply reap what our own sowing has produced for us.

Another scripture to look at:

Romans 3:23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Justified freely, I love to hear those words; they tell me the gift is free. Christ, through his work of grace on the cross, has overcome both the laws of nature and the law of causation.

You can also look at it from the other side. Christ "sowed" a perfect life and yet he "reaped" death, mocking, and torture. This should also show that while the "law of sowing and reaping" may be a natural principle, those that believe in Christ are not necessarily bound by "the natural". Actually, salvation and our walk of faith with Christ is a supernatural life from beginning to end.

Also, look at the lives of the apostles. Many went through all kinds of trials and tribulations, despite sowing all kinds of wonderful seeds… why do you think God put them through this?

These are all exceptions to your Rule of Causation and, in my opinion, this Biblical thinking of God's grace through the cross destroys the seemingly airtight logic of "Tares will never produce wheat or wheat tares but each seed reproduces its own kind". Was the rejected, beaten, and crucified Jesus, therefore, a "tare" because He reaped suffering and death? 

When we look at it closely, the Law of Causation is actually rooted in pagan religious thought that knows nothing of the reality of the grace of God!  It is because the pagan world is under such naturalistic thinking that Christians need to take the Gospel of grace to the ends of the earth.

  I spent some time emailing a CBC pastor about their Faith Harvest time and Frank's use of Scripture during it. When all was said and done we had gathered about 30 pages of emails and failed to change eachothers mind. He did however help me better understand their "case" in defending this line of thinking.

 Here is an article sent to me by a CBC pastor attempting to explain the "Faith Harvest" / "Law of Causation" / "Sowing and Reaping" Doctrine. I may post my response to him later, but for now…

Reaping & Sowing:

I. IT IS A LAW OF NATURE THAT THE REAPING SHALL CORRESPOND TO THE SOWING.

This is part of the general law that, other things being equal, the same cause always produces the same effect. There is no known exception to the law of causation; there is no possible evasion of it. We see it plainly working in human affairs. The eternal constancy of nature assures us that the consequences of which certain conduct is known to be the cause will undoubtedly follow (sin, relationships, health, career, finances).

1. The special law of sowing and reaping is that the product of the harvest will be the same in kind as the seed sown. Tares will never produce wheat, nor wheat tares. But each seed reproduces its own kind. This is seen in human affairs. Commercial industry tends to commercial wealth, intellectual study to a state of intellectual culture, etc. It is vain to think that money will buy refinement or that learning is the road to wealth. Each pursuit has its own consequences in accordance with its own nature, finances are included in this principle both naturally and spiritually.

II. THIS LAW APPLIES TO SPIRITUAL SOWING AND REAPING.

1. Here the future depends on the past and present by a certain law of causation. No words could more plainly assert that our conduct is shaping our own fate; and these are not the words of James, but of the ApostlePaul, and they occur, of all places, in the Epistle to the Galatians, where the doctrine of justification by, faith is most vehemently asserted! Moreover, they are not addressed to Jews still under the Law, nor to heathen who have not yet availed themselves of the privileges of the gospel, but to Christians who have come into the justification by faith, as it is to Christians that St. Paul says elsewhere, "We shall all stand before the judgment-seat of God" (Rom. 14:10). We are here reminded that the future consequences of conduct are natural, not adventitious-that they are caused by what we are and do, that they flow of their own accord from our lives, and are not assigned from without by any arbitrary decree. We simply reap what our own sowing has produced for us.

1. 2.In spiritual things there is a correspondence between what is sown and what is reaped.

(a) Sowing to the flesh produces its own natural harvest-corruption. The mere animal life, the life of worldly interests, the life of the lower self, is itself a life of corruptible things. Its soil and nourishment are earthly and cannot outlast death. When the grave opens all is lost. Even before death thieves steal, and moth and rust eat into the treasures. The soul itself, too, is corrupted by such a life. Its faculties are dissipated and decay away. It descends to the evil state of moral rottenness and death. 

(b)Sowing to the Spirit produces its own harvest of eternal life. Spiritual things are eternal things. Treasures in heaven are beyond destroying influences. In proportion as the spiritual within us is cultivated we have what will outlast death and what no grave will ever claim. Already we have an eternal life in living in the things that are spiritual and therefore eternal. Money goes, but faith remains; the pleasures of the senses pall upon us, but the peace of God never fails; self-seeking leads to dissatisfaction, the love of God sustains us with undying interests. 

Scriptural Examples of sowing and reaping: the harvesting of grain. The term is used figuratively for the final judgment (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43; Rev. 14:15-16), evangelism (Matt. 9:37-38; Luke 10:2; John 4:35-36; Rom. 1:13), and recompense for good (Hos. 10:12; 2 Cor. 9:6; Gal. 6:7-8) or evil (Job 4:8; Prov. 22:8; Hos. 8:7; 10:13; Gal. 6:7-8) 

III. APPLICATION OF THIS PRINCIPLE

1. As this law applies to all of life, it must also apply to every area specifically, this includes finances. If you plant wheat seed in the ground, you expect an abundance of wheat to be harvested. I know of no farmer that would plant and not expect a return. You invest in a 401k with the complete expectation of seeing a return. You give of your time at a job expecting a paycheck and hopefully a promotion. PLEASE remember that the context of 2 Cor. 9:6 is giving of MONEY, "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously." Paul is making it very clear that there should be an expectation to receive directly proportinate to what you give. I don't think you can translate this any other way. This is a great scripture to validate the point that if you give of your money sparingly, you will reap a minimal harvest!

1. Here is another scripture that pertains to reaping and sowing in the financial arena, 1 Cor. 9:10-12, "Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?" Again context is important. There is both a spiritual and natural context here, and also a financial one as it pertains to material harvest. There is an emphasis here of a hope of receiving something from the sowing of the same kind. You should plow in "hope of sharing" in the harvest… including a material harvest as stated.

1. Jesus himself said you should expect a return on your giving, "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."  This would be a tough one to refute. It is plain and simple. If you give, IT WILL COME BACK TO YOU. This applies to all areas of your life as we have discussed in the law of reaping and sowing, and again in context, will also apply to things you give materially.

1. All of the being said, THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT of all of this is to understand the motive of WHY we would want to be blessed. Paul made it clear that our motives should never be for selfish gain, but for blessing the Lord, others and extending the kingdom. AGAIN, please understand our heart and motive is to see people blessed SO THAT they can bless others and see the kingdom of God advanced. There is great honor and noble rewards to those that desire to see others who are need helped. God blesses us so that we can bless others. This truth applies from Genesis to Revelation.  We teach this biblical truth, so that we might have the resources to reach out to the thousands of people monthly that are less fortunate. God fobid that we, you, or any other Christian would teach that God blesses us to build a haven for ourselves on earth, but the kingdom of God. Hence, we are proud of both our teaching and motives in believing God for our finances.

In my humble opinion, God's word is very clear. We are expected to give and give generously and cheerfully. We should expect God to bless us in return. God expects us to invest what He has blessed us with into the lives of others and into the kingdom of God.

I'm not sure what textbook this comes from so if anyone recognizes it I'd love to know.

There is a sickness in the American Church and that sickness is SELF. I was recently reading the story of The Sheep and the Goats (Matthew 25:31-46) and it suddenly struck me… this is what God would have us do.

Help Others.

I mean, REALLY help others. Not just around the holidays, not just by giving some money, or donating old items to Good Will, but daily, through relationships.

It's a difficult teaching to receive, but one that is all too important. It hurts when you realize that you are a GOAT and hurts worse when you realize that you go to a GOAT church and live in a GOAT country.

Here is what I think the Christian Church looks like to the outside world:

A dark, empty, house.

We think the prettier our house is the more we will be able to help people. So we raise all kinds of money to make things look nice. Then we go and unlock the door and consider that "evangelism". Of course, whenever we see someone walking down the street towards us, we quickly shut out the lights and go hide in the basement.

Sure, we all want to help people, right? All they have to do is come into our home, turn on our lights, walk down to our basement, and find us. Should anyone be willing to do those things then by all means, we are going to help them. Praise God.

And the church wants to think the world hates Christians, but quite frankly, I don't really think they do. I think they find us to be complete hypocrites, who aren't worth hating. I'll bet the world barely knows we exist. In fact the only time they seem to notice us is around elections…AND THEY THINK WE ARE ALL REPUBLICANS.

We waste so much time at the church helping people in the church, preparing them to face the world?  Cell Groups, Bible Studies, Interest Groups, Leadership Training, Membership Classes… Blah, blah, blah, it's all a waste of time.

IF WE AREN'T OUT HELPING THOSE IN NEED IT IS ALL A HUGE WASTE OF TIME.

We need to spend more (a lot more) time working on living out Matthew 25. I would love to see a church known for feeding the hungry, clothing and sheltering the homeless, caring for the sick, reaching out to those in prison, but where do most churches end up spending their time? IN CHURCH.

Jesus said "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance". He came to save the lost, not to set up a study group for every Tuesday night. "Sinners" aren't likely to come find you hiding in the basement, you need to go find them and guess what??? Some of them might be living with AIDS or worse yet some might actually be living a homosexual lifestyle? OMG.

Remember when Jesus got in trouble with the religious leaders for going to dinner with the homosexual? You don't… oh, that's because back then homosexuals were called "tax collectors".

Can you imagine a world where Christians were calling out to each other saying "You need to stop spending so much time helping others and get back into church for some Bible teaching"? How would that world look? Pretty damn nice, I'd say.

Christ died to give us everything and we want to make it all about ourselves.

Shame on us. Shame on me.

I'm one of those crazy liberals who thinks that women should be elders in the church. However, after reading this recent confessional from Eileen Button, a Pastor's wife in Michigan, I've decided that women should be pastors. And if Ms. Button ever starts a church in DC, I'll attend.

Here Eileen discusses the stereotypes associated with being a pastor's wife:

For those who suppose they have me pegged, I'd like to dispel a few stereotypes. I don't believe Jesus would be a Republican or a Democrat. I am suspicious of our presence in Iraq and mourn the loss of lives there. I applaud those who may not be churchgoers but whose actions and generosity reflect Christ more than the lifestyles of many professing Christians. I believe God wants for us to prosper, but not necessarily in the way our American culture dictates, and certainly not just for personal benefit.

By the way, I don't wear stockings, pumps or flowered dresses with lace collars. Nor do I don Tammy Faye-style false eyelashes, wigs or sequins. I prefer jeans, khakis and classic T shirts. I don't volunteer in the nursery or children's church (I've had three children of my own; that was more than enough). I don't perform with the music team. With a voice like mine, no one will let me on, and the only song I know how to play on the piano is "Chopsticks."

However, I try to use the gifts I have been given in the church and community as a teacher, writer and friend.

This is the kind of honesty I would like to see from all Pastors. I know Pastors are not perfect, and it would be great if they would stop acting like it.

After nearly 2 years of blogging some of us have noticed a certain trend in the comments left by CBC supporters. IT seems as though they all go through the same 5 stages of commenting. Here is a list, sent in by WTFWJD. It would probably save them all time and stress if they just knew we enjoyed messing with them.

1. Denial
"I can't believe this site exists, how could ANYONE possibly have a a problem with CBC, et. al.. I wonder if you guys are even REAL Christians."
 
2. Anger
"You guys suck.  You are just bitter.  You're going to hell."
 
3. Bargaining
"Well, maybe they do some bad things, but at least they don't kill babies."  Or: "If you're so perfect, YOU try claiming you're perfect and then living up to it."
 
4. Depression (also known as Disorganization)
Irrational circular logic and straw-man arguments. "If they don't do it, who will?" "I can't belive I'm even posting here. Don't you people have Jobs?"
 
5. Acceptance
"Since I'm so correct, I'm leaving and never coming back.  Enjoy Hell."

Excellent work, WTFWJD, it's readers like you who make this blog worth returning to.

Thank you all for you enthusiastic response to my meeting with Howard. Reading your comments took me back about 18 months to the passion I once felt in regards to City Bible Church. I would like to address some of the comments and will do so, but maybe it would help if I tried to explain myself a little better first.

When we first started this blog a year and half ago I still felt (and was) very connected to CBC. I still had many friends that went there and spent a lot of time talking with people about the church. After giving over 10 years of my life to CBC I felt I had a right, and duty, to call out the errors of their way.

I did just that. And it was good.

Now fast forward 18 months, I haven't stepped foot inside the church, I only have a few friends that still attend there (I can't imagine why) and don't really know what's going on anymore. At this point I can confidently say they are not the same church that they were while I was there.

Yes, it sounds like they are worse off now then when I was there and that they are continuing to head in the wrong direction, but I don't really know for sure. At this point it just doesn't seem to be any of my business. There are millions of screwed up churches out there and I would like to focus on more of them then just the one I used to attend.

It's not because I believe they may have changed for the better, its because I just don't care anymore (yes CBC, another point to show that I am not bitter).  As I said before, this does not mean that I will never write about City Boobie again, I still may…

Please don't take this post as a resignation or a concession. It's just time to move on.

And now for your comments.  

Comment 1: Maybe I got it wrong, but, why wasn't someone willing to meet with you a long time ago?

They made 1 previous attempt (2 if you count Larry Asplund, but I think he knew he was on his way out). I met with Marc Estes when the blog first started. He didn't seem to care about what I was saying. He was only there to tell me why I was wrong. He threatened to "Do what ever it would take to make the blog stop", but never followed through.

Comment 2: Can I ask you honestly? Doesn't the 18 months, lawsuit, etc., kinda let the air out of whatever happened in your meeting with Howard? I mean, clearly Howard cares, but he's just one man. What about CBC the institution?

They are what they are. Right now, I feel I have made my point and as we all know, there is no point in beating a dead horse. I had never spoken with Howard before that day and I stand by what I said. He's a good guy.

Comment 3: Does talking with one man really give you closure?

Not really. I believe this blog and the many comments by all of you have given me closure. My meeting with Howard was just a nice way to formalize it all.

Comment 4: Yea, so Howard's a great guy, and he cares. Guess what. There's other great guys up at CBC…who probably would care too…But it just seemed like you shared the conviction that many of us have against institutions like CBC, and now you're backing away faster than a Joel Fahndrich post.

There may be other people up at CBC who care, I haven't spoken to any of them. I've been through so much on this blog: talks of lawsuits, multiple threats, countless meetings, my family even got Uninvited to a 3 year olds birthday party; all because of my actions. There's been nothing "fast" about it.

Comment 5: We've spent a lot of time on here spelling out the things we've disagreed with in terms of doctrine, philosophy, and policies of CBC, the actions of the pastors, elders, etc. None of that has changed, but now you feel good about it because you had an amiable meeting with Howard?

I don't feel good with it. I still don't agree with the way they do things, I'm just tired.

Comment 6: Let me give you a hint: Howard is the head of CCLI because he's really good at something. That something is making people feel good about agreeing with him… So is it any surprise that you felt good coming out of that meeting? Not in the least. Unless you already know Howard and are willing to look past the slick salesman (as sincere as he is), and stay focused on the issues, you're not likely to make any "progress" towards resolving your philosophical issues regarding what church should look like, especially when it comes to tithing.

I don't get a "slick salesman" feeling from Howard. I believe he genuinely cares. Howard and I are still communicating about our "philosophical issues", but we go to 2 different churches now. Chances are real good we won't agree on everything. The important thing is that we can openly debate the issues.

Comment 7: And now that I see how you've backed off, I can't see why I should be reading here any more.

I'm not sure why anyone reads here anymore. Things have gone downhill since we posted our last Christmas song.

Comment 8: RP said himself that there is a time to judge intentions and a time to judge actions. I have a hard time when I hear that someone who has been a CBC elder for 20+ years has pure intentions when he continues as part of a church leadership group that misrepresents Scripture to boost their income.

How about this then?

In dealing with me…Howard had the best intentions. His actions backed that up.

Comment 9: Howard seems to be ok with that tithe policy as he referenced 10% tithing in his last blog post….and hasn't posted since. As FICM already pointed out, I have no doubt that RP was sold on a salespitch by an experienced salesman, nothing more.

Howard sold me nothing (except this great CCLI T-Shirt).

Comment 10: I have always found that actions speak louder than kind words and "pure intentions". If I believed every religious salesperson that had "pure intentions" and a good sales pitch, I'd probably be a Mormon.

How true. Mormon's really are the best humans aren't they. I look forward to seeing many of them in heaven.

Dear Howard,

Thank you for your quick response. I appreciate you taking the time to acknowledge my letter.

The only reason I listed your name in my letter was because you are fortunate enough to have a "large" photo on the CBC website. I don't believe we've ever spoken and I certainly don't have any issues with you at all. Truth be told I don't really have issues with any of the pastors at CBC and I think that is part of my problem. I don't necessarily "like" all the pastors, but that's mostly a personality thing.

It would be real nice if I could come up with a couple of instances where I felt "hurt" or "wronged" by someone. That way I could go to them, address the specific issues, and hopefully move on. Unfortunately my concerns are much broader than that.

I'm not dying to get in long debates with you or any other pastor really, and I'm sure you would like to avoid that as well, but lately I have felt like I need to try and have some communication with some of the pastors.

That being said, I'll list a few of my "issues" for you to hear and then you can decide what to do with them.

1. I believe that City Bible Church is more focused on City Bible Church then on anything else. In other words I think CBC is self centered. The Forward Together campaign is a prime example, in it you have 4 steps of which none are focused on reaching the lost. Sure, a nicer looking building, a new building on the West Side, and advertising the CBC name could attract the lost but to me it sounds more like expanding the Kingdom of City Bible then the Kingdom of God.

2. I believe City Bible Church is overly concerned with their image. This starts with the Pastoral Staff and creeps down to the congregation. Again, Forward Together is a prime example.

3. I believe that City Bible Church miss-represents the Bible with it's teaching on tithe. I've spent a fair amount of time researching Tithe and the Bible and I just can't see how 10% still applies today. I've heard Marc explain the Covenant of Blessings but it all seems like such a stretch.

4. I believe City Bible Church indirectly teaches a "give to get" message. Although you may not specifically say that one is directly related to the other (except in one ridiculous message Frank preached on Malachi 3) the theme is constantly pushed.

5. I believe City Bible Church fails to push the truth behind the Gospel of Jesus Christ. After 10 years of extensive church attendance, youth group/camps/conferences, and even 3-1/2 years of Temple Christian High School, I could not have told anyone about the Gospel. The first time I truly heard it was after I left CBC. Again, like the above point, it is mentioned but the message always seemed muddled.

6. I believe City Bible Church attempts to control their members and keep them from thinking for themselves. Any time I ever saw anyone question anything they were always told something about "God placing that leader in that place and by questioning the leader you are questioning God". You can see why this would concern me.

7. I believe City Bible Church has a double standard when it comes to extra-marital sex. If you get someone pregnant you get in front of the church to repent; if you don't get them pregnant all is hidden…

So there you have it, 7 points of concern from Johnpaul Morton. I don't know if you can do anything about it, I don't know if you care to do anything about it, but at least you know how I feel.

If there is any other pastor who you think should hear this please forward it to them. Again, I'm not looking to pick a fight here…

I do welcome any thoughts, comments, or even criticism you may have for me. If you know of anyone that has personally been hurt or offended by my actions please ask them to contact me so we can try to rectify things.

And now for my final question: Do you mind if I post this letter on my blog?

I recently had my friend One Love over for dinner and we spent a lot of time talking about CBC and why I blog. He made the comment that in business if a customer ever takes the time to write a letter to complain then you KNOW something went wrong. So what happened to me to make me want to spend so much time writing letters to the CBC complaint department (they don’t have one so this blog is filling in)?

I’ve done some soul searching and have found that there were definite "hurts" in the past. These so called hurts turned into anger, which led to bitterness, which eventually became depression. After a couple of years I realized that the only person I was hurting was me. The church, the pastors, the people…none of them were affected by my anger, the only one hurting was me. Once I figured that out, I realized that I needed to get past the anger and bitterness and move on. I did.

So where does that leave me?

I have forgiven but not forgotten. I don’t see how I can. You call that bitterness, I call it…well… I call it wising up and finding a new place to grow.

So where does that bring me?

This brings me to a place of grace… A place of grace.

3 years ago, grace didn’t mean that much to me. I understood it to be something that God had for sinners (and by "sinners" I of course meant "people who didn’t call themselves Christians"). Now I see grace as the foundation of my daily life. It’s really what allows me to be a follower of Christ.

Coincidently, I also now see myself as a sinner, and let me tell you how refreshing that is. Once I was able to give up my attempts to be perfect, I was able to begin building a relationship with a God who loved me for who I was and not for whom I was trying to be. God didn’t change, my perspective of God changed, and I needed that to fully understand salvation.

So, right now you’re thinking ‘That’s great Johnpaul, but isn’t this blog supposed to be funny? And what does all this have to do with why you blog?

Allow me to tell a long story that illustrates my problems with CBC.

While @ CBC I found out a certain "leader" of mine had been having an affair for the past year. I’ll skip the details, but when I talked with him about it, he didn’t seem upset that he had cheated on his wife, but seemed more embarrassed by the fact that it had been with an unattractive woman (in my opinion).

On the flip side, when I talked with the non-Christian woman that he had had the affair with she started crying, and instantly started apologizing to ME. She told me that she hadn’t been able to sleep at night, and that she felt so badly for what she had done to his family. She was going crazy and didn’t know what to do.

My wife and I were told by CBC leadership that we were not to talk to ANYONE about this. They said that they wanted to "protect" this family and the less people knew about it the better.

Here we have a situation where the Christian man who should have the answer (grace) was caught up with not wanting to appear weak. He couldn’t apologize to anyone he was "leading", because the church feels it is more important to protect your image than it is to rectify a wrong (I think they call that UNITY). At the same time there is a woman who doesn’t have any clue what to do, she is crying out for help and there isn’t any coming. It’s awfully hard to tell someone about the grace of Christ when they’ve been screwing around with the "preacher".

You see, this was a perfect opportunity for the power of God’s grace to be shown. He could have stood up and said "Guys, I blew it, but thank God for the Cross." He could have made it a true testimony of God’s love and forgiveness, but instead he tried to sweep it under the rug (on the advise from CBC elders).

Let me tell another story.

My wife and I are at The Well Church; we’ve only been there for a couple of weeks and Erik, the head pastor gets up to tell us that he had to go down to California to dissolve a church that had been planted out of The Well (embarrassing right?).

As it turns out, this pastor, in California, also had an affair. When Eric went down for the final service he said it was one of the most powerful meetings he had ever been in. The pastor got up in front of the congregation, told everyone what he had done, asked for their forgiveness, and thanked God for His grace.

How powerful is that testimony?

I know I’m your pastor, but I screwed up. I’m not perfect. God still loves me as much today as he did yesterday, and when you screw up He’ll treat you the same.

Wow. Tell me you don’t want to know a God who loves us regardless of what we do? A God who doesn’t care how much money you have, what kind of car you drive or where you work.

I used to believe (and I never would admit this because I had been taught all the right responses, but this is what I really thought) that God died on the cross to save sinners and once those sinners were saved they needed to live a perfect life. Now…I realized that no one could live a perfect life, but the goal was to keep all your sins down to the little things. Anger, greed, gossip, dishonesty, you know the things that we can all smile and justify.

I now see that we are all sinners. I’m no less a sinner now then I was before I knew Jesus (remember, it only takes one sin to be a sinner), And every day I rely on the Grace of God. I’ve written another song to help illustrate God’s love: Sung to the tune "Jesus loves the little children"

Jesus loves the alcoholic,
the drug addict, and the queer.
Red and Christian, black and GAY
Jesus loves them all the same
Jesus loves the little sinners of the world.

This is why I blog. I don’t really care how much City Bible Church teaches on giving. I don’t really care that they want nine campuses. I don’t really care that Frank "wants to see more Mercedes and BMW’s parked in their lot". What I really care about is that I never once heard the truth behind the "Gospel of Jesus". I was always taught that the Cross was for the unsaved, and that’s why I’m upset.

This story is only one example of many that show how mixed up Christianity can really be. Whether it’s the Youth Pastor who thinks it’s good to lie about the first time he kissed his wife or the Elder who claims his biggest problem is "Vanilla Ice Cream" (I’ll save that story for later), if you put your image above all else, you are destroying the message of Christ.

Which is, simply put:

WE NEED HIM, BECAUSE WE ALL SCREW UP AND NONE OF US COULD MAKE IT TO HEAVEN WITHOUT HIM.

Ok, at this point only my mother and the guy who had the affair are still reading, so I’ll end by giving you an updated version of THE TWO QUESTION TEST.

Do you want to find out if you are going to heaven when you die? Answer these two questions and see:

Question 1: What is the "Gospel of Jesus Christ"?
Question 2: Why do you believe this?

I spent 10 years in church asking the question “Why isn’t this working?”. “Why do I leave the alter feeling like I have changed forever; only to fall flat on my face 2 weeks later?” “Why can’t I stay close to God?” “What can be done to have a lasting change?”

When I left that experience I felt like I was the problem; that I wasn’t good enough.
In a sense it was true, the problem was me. I was putting to much pressure on myself to try to earn my salvation, but I could never live up to the expectations. It took along time to realize that it is only through the sacrificial death of Jesus and the grace given by God that I am saved.

When you begin to understand God’s grace you realize that nothing else matters. God saved me while I was sinning. He didn’t wait until I was perfect and sinless to offer salvation. No, He came to me despite my sinful ways and brought salvation. It became clear to me that He loves me regardless of my faults. I deserve hell. We all do yet, God’s grace has saved me from that.

This lead me to one big change:

I now try to live a holy and righteous life because of my salvation, not in order to earn it.

Here are some thoughts and scriptures that helped undo the damage:

I am a sinful creature who deserves hell. There is nothing I can do to get to heaven, only through the sacrificial death of Christ and the grace of God can I be saved.

Rom 3:23 All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way.
Genesis 8:21 Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood.

I did not choose to be saved, but God chose to save me.

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him
Ephesians 2:4-5 But, because of His great love for us God made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfector of our faith.
Romans 9:11-13 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad–in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls–she was told, "The older will serve the younger." Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

God did not chose to save me because of anything I have ever done. It has nothing to do with my own personal merit or worthiness.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves. It is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast.
2nd Thes 1:4 ….because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
Acts 13:48 And all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who have been called according to his purpose.
Romans 9:16 It does not therefore depend on man’s desire or effort but on God’s mercy.
Romans 11:5-6 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Therefore, since I have done nothing to earn it, since I certainly don’t deserve it, and since God has saved me anyway, why would I feel as though one wrong step will cost me everything?

John 10-28:29 I give them (my sheep) eternal life, and the shall never parish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord

Philip. 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,

"Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you."

There is no need to worry about the status of your salvation when God says “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” It is important to understand that 1- we do not deserve to go to heaven and 2- that we can not earn our way into heaven. That is the beauty of grace. It is undeserved, unearned, and given freely by Christ.

I have seen so many of my friends turn away from Christ because of a bad church experience and so I am writing these things to help show that there is truth in the Bible, that God is real, and that they need Jesus. I pray that those who no longer have a relationship with Christ, because of past issues with a church would find a way to forgive and understand that Christians can be easily deceived and make terrible mistakes, but God is not the one to blame.

This is why I blog. I have seen two sides of Christianity. One which I hate because it only caused me pain; the focus was on me and not on Jesus. And the other I love, because it has freed me from myself and caused me to look to the cross.

I apologize to everyone who wanted to read something funny today. If it’s humor that you are looking for try listening to Pastor Rick Snow’s sermon on the Generosity Factor
@ http://www.citybiblechurch.org/Content/158.htm
Even the most loyal sheep have got to be able to see through that message.

As we now have eleven contributors on this site, I would like to explain why we are all here. Blog is short for web-log, and a web-log is basically just an online diary. A place to record your thoughts. It’s just that with this blog, our thoughts are more specific and focused on how we feel about CBC. Each of our contributors has had significant experience with City Business Church. Some of it good; some of it not so good. This blog is merely a forum for us to express how we feel about some of our experiences with this church. The best example of what I’m talking about, is the post right below entitled “The day I robbed God.” I thought the post said a lot about the dangers of preaching the law, as opposed to preaching Christ’s message of grace and compassion. In closing, let me say that the contributors all represent a specific age group. A very sought after age group for advertisers, actually. And an age group which is leaving CBC in droves. Why do you think that is?